How to Study the Bible III - Pivotal Interpretive issues in the Book of Rev. I
Vern Peterman · Oct 2, 2016
How to Study Bible (2016), No. 38
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://www.hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/410261632577388

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

Two Sundays ago, we were in a place of looking at, you know, here are the ten principles for interpreting the Book of Revelation, and we kind of explained them. They are in the front of your handout, just in brief, all ten of them in briefer summary form, and we'll go over those briefly, just to kind of refresh your memory.

And then we're going to, this Sunday and next Sunday, take a look at other interpretive issues in the Book of Revelation. And so we'll do that. One of the things that we want to do is to give you some tools for interpreting the book of Revelation yourself very clearly. So let's take a look here. We're going to look at the 10 on page 1 here. And first of all, we're going to interpret literally.

That doesn't mean that it's wooden letterism, but we understand figures of speech and their symbols. And then these things are also confirmed with scripture, so we have certainty from it. And those are intended to convey the author's literal meaning. Even if we use a figure of speech, we have a literal meaning with the figure of speech, don't we? So we're wanting to find out what is the author intending, even if the author uses a figure of speech. Then the next one, John uses the word like or as, so it's a simile as opposed to a metaphor. We're going to be looking at that and actually give you a complete list of all the places in Revelation where it explains the simile. And that's the third one.

The text explains a symbol right in the text. We simply take John's explanation. An example, as for the mystery, Revelation 120, as for the mystery of the seven stars, which you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the seven angels, or as we'll be looking at it, messengers, of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. So John, you may be looking at something and saying, well, what does that mean? And John will write in the text, explain this is what this means. This is what the symbol means. And he does that a number of times, as we'll be looking at in more detail shortly. Word usage, grammar, and verb tenses.

Fortunately, John makes it real simple. As opposed to Paul, who can write with some incredible complexity, the apostle John wrote with simplicity. In his gospel of John, his revelation is three letters. They're all real simple. Paul will have three and four part compound words. John doesn't use a compound word unless he has to. So John writes real simply and consistently.

The sword coming out of Price's mouth is five times in Revelation up through chapter 19. Christ is the lamb from the beginning to the end. It's always the same work. He doesn't bounce around and pick a different word. He sticks with one thing and consistent.

So we'll look at everything in context, including different magnitudes of context. When we say context, it's not just the immediate context. But it's also, oh, we find out. interpret the sword coming out of his mouth in one passage, and to let that be it, is to say, oh, we've got other places where he's using it, and it's the same word, and what's the context there? So then, look, number six, we'll interpret according to the history and culture, I'm astounded by it.

John's symbolism is consistently Jewish symbolism. It's not what does it look like, which is really where we're coming from culturally. We go and we look at, all right, what does this look like? What does it appear like? And even our songs that we sing this morning, they rhyme sounds. The Jews didn't write songs that rhymed sounds. They rhymed meaning.

So it's a whole different way of looking at the world. But in Revelation, it is Jewish consistently. Nonetheless, John will refer to things out of the Gentile culture, and we'll find the seven churches have consistently a lot of Gentile background. And the history and culture of each of the seven churches and the cities that are Each of them is reflected in every single one of the messages to the seven churches. So John is aware of all this Gentile background. Meanwhile, he consistently uses Jewish symbolism.

So very interesting. OK. Next, we'll take advantage of the fact that 70% of the book of Revelation is straight out of the Old Testament. So guess what? If you have something where John says, here's what these stars mean, and here's what the lampstands mean, And that's nice, and we'll take a look at a listing of those. What if I don't have an explanation? Here's what it means. Where do I look?

The Old Testament. You start in the Old Testament, most likely. So that's one thing John actually, in the end, you have a way of understanding, oftentimes with redundancy, a way of understanding everything in the book of Revelation. And if John doesn't explain it with like or as, or explain it like you did with the lampstands and the stars, then look to the Old Testament. And that is going to lock up the meaning, or unlock the meaning, of everything in the book of Revelation. Alright, next, verse 8, we will read, Israel is Israel, the church is the church, we differentiate between the saints of the church age and the saints of the tribulation. A lot of Christians have a tendency to look at the Bible flat. That is, everything is looked at as the same, and everything is made the same.

Rather than recognizing that God deals differently, and sometimes very, very differently, with different groups of people at different times. forgive in order to be forgiven, right? Because if you don't forgive, what happens? Your Heavenly Father won't forgive you, right?

So, but then here's Paul who writes to the believers at Ephesus in Ephesians 4.32. Forgive one another as God in Christ has forgiven you. It's not conditional. It is assumed that you are forgiven and therefore you forgive. Forgive because you've been forgiven.

Big distinction there. Okay, so let's take a look here at the next one, number nine. We'll take advantage of John's amazing consistency. he remains very consistent. When he uses a term, a word, a phrase, he does so with systematic character to it. And so that's really good because it helps us be certain of how we're understanding and interpreting the book. Number 10, we'll recognize that there are some things that are clearly spelled out but will not be understood clearly as to their application until the time in which they are fulfilled. For centuries, people have been trying to identify the Antichrist.

How well have they done? No. Why? And the reason they have not done well, and people, oh it's this guy, it's that guy, it's that guy, and centuries go by and they keep goofing it up. The reason that they don't get it is because some things won't be identifiable until people are in the time. And I don't want to wait around. I don't know about you. So trying to take a stab at identifying this or that before it's time is not a good idea.

As a matter of fact, it's a waste of time. I mentioned the Antichrist. How about Babylon, Mystery Babylon? We'll be looking at chapter 17 and 18, for those of us who are taking a look there. but the identification of Babylon. Dave Hunt, met the guy, spent a couple of hours with him in the airport. Dave Hunt said it was the Catholic Church.

Do we know that for a fact? The truth is that there are some things that look like it fits, but again, we're not in the tribulation period, so trying to grab something now to identify the Antichrist now, it's going to be tough. People in that period of time, will they have any doubt as to who the Antichrist is? No doubt at all, right? So it will be very clear. So it's far better to just say, here's what we know. Certainty is going to have to wait. And I don't want to stick around, so we'll let the Lord deal with that.

You have your hand up? Yeah, there was a lot of discussion, as you probably know, when they went into Iraq for the first time with Gulf War I. And a lot of that had to do with the fact that it was Babylon in the area of ancient Babylon and Persia. They almost didn't go. It may have been good or bad, but who knows. Just because of that alone. This is just pure conjecture.

One thing is people, I think they forget that governments and the world politically changes rapidly. And so we have no idea And if I remember correctly, isn't it going to be like a new Roman rule of sorts? And I don't know. A reconstituted Roman Empire? Yeah. So at the moment, I don't know if the Middle East has any sort of political structure that is similar to that. But who knows? You bring up a good point. How many of you heard of ISIS five years ago? Now it's all over the news all the time. They're doing different things. Five years ago, I've never heard of it.

So things can come up and formulate very quickly. OK, so let's take a look on page two. We're going to be stepping into the seven churches. Now, here's a principle that is good to take advantage of, and I call it interpretive leverage. That is, once you learn one particular interpretive principle or once you come to a clear understanding of one thing, it can help you numerous times, and this is a case in point. Let me give you a for instance.

If we know that unless there's a genealogical connection, we've said son of or child of means like in character and close in relationship. And I can use that anywhere I find it in the whole Bible. So if it talks about we are sons of God, we are like in character and close in relationship. If it talks about the sons of disobedience, like in character and close in relationship. So I can use that. Old Testament, New Testament, that's an across the board biblical principle.

The only exception to it, and it actually has something implied, is a physical son of is talking about that genealogical connection. But there may also be an implication, even then, about like in character and close in relationship. So the question being asked of David when he was first showing up on the scene in Israel, whose son is he? Oh, it's Jesse's son.

So in here, one of the things we find is that these messages to the seven churches, how many messages are there? Seven. Seven to the seven churches. So if I figure out something like, what's an overcomer? If I figure out something like what are these messengers or angels or whatever as it's translated, if I can figure that out and have good certainty on it, I can use that seven times. So that gives me some interpretive leverage because once I get clarity on one, here I've got all seven of them, where I have some clarity now. It helps define things.

Yes? This may not be correct, but what you're saying almost sounds like in mathematics, where if you figure one mathematical idea, you don't rethink it in every single problem. You reuse the principles. You just keep reusing that principle. You've nailed it. Don't try and figure that one out. You don't start from scratch every time.

So that's one thing. If we understand clearly, At one point, we got seven different messages where we can take that understanding and apply it and get some real clarity, not just for one message, but for all seven. OK, so the first question here is why seven churches? Why seven and why these seven? So let's think about that.

John spent probably two and maybe as much as three decades whole place of working from there was Ephesus. So the last two to three decades of his life, other than a brief time at Patmos, he was at Ephesus and he would work with the other churches. And so that was one.

Another is these churches had all been ministered to previously by the Apostle Paul. Remember 1 Timothy, why did Paul send Timothy to Ephesus? To correct the false teachers. So there's Paul, Timothy, Apollos also went among these churches. And now here's John in the last two to three decades of his life. And so this group of churches centered on Ephesus had a greater record of apostolic influence and contact. than any other group of churches we know of. So here's John living out the last years of his life there in Ephesus and we have record from direct and first generation and second generation disciples of John. So there's some good things to work with as well.

So there was lots of apostolic influence. Next thing, these churches were all in communication with each other. And starting at Ephesus, there was, going clockwise with these churches, there was a Roman postal route that connected them all up. So regular travel between them, that was the norm. Lots of communication between them. So we had that. They also represent a variety form, they weren't all the same, and so that gives us some variation among them for us to use to help learn from it.

Alright, so now, one of the things that comes up, and I'm in the middle of page two here, a misconception and a pattern in the writing. William Ramsey wrote an otherwise good book, but he titled it The Letters to the Seven Churches in Revelation. And one of the cautions that I would make there is that you see the forms of letters, like Paul wrote, and Peter wrote, and James wrote, and all that, and these messages to the seven churches are not in the same form as those letters. So probably that's why I call them messages, and then we'll further characterize them. But these are messages to the churches, not necessarily in the form of a letter, like anything that was written at the time.

And there's something else. There is a heavy use of legal terminology in these letters, which is kind of stunning. He talks about, for example, against you. So this is a legal claim. That's the terminology for a legal claim. Searches, that's a word that's also used to conduct a legal investigation. And then I know is used as an acknowledgment of a defense claim. So, real interestingly, these are sort of slap your face, harsh words. So that's another thing about it.

Along with the harsh words, there's a few different messages that come across in chapter one, just as a preface to these messages to the seven churches. One, it says, he is the one who is constantly loving us. So what Jesus has to say to these churches is not inconsistent with his constantly living. And then, remember in chapter 1 verses 9 through 20, how was Jesus dressed? What did it say that he had? Megan, I think you were... He was dressed as a high priest. Yes, he was dressed as a high priest, and so that fits with Hebrews, where Christ is our heavenly high priest, right? our heavenly high priest.

So now, then the next one, we have this word translated angel in the American standard. Some of the other translations go there too. This is the Greek word angelos. And so that is typically translated angel or messenger. Sometimes it's just messenger, right? And the three proposals As to what that word means is one, that it's an angel.

The only difficulty with that is that it's nowhere in the Bible where it says that each church is assigned an angel. And you're writing a message to the angel of the seven churches. Well, if we had an angel delivering the messages here, it doesn't seem like it fits.

Another proposal is that, oh, this is the pastor of the church. one pastor model, maybe Baptist, but it's not biblical, right? Both start with B. Yes. So, what you have here, there isn't any one pastor model in scripture, and so that doesn't seem like a good fit.

What makes the most sense is that between angel, pastor, and messenger, messenger seems to make the most sense, because what would happen, you'd have these messengers for each of the churches, who would start off with a scroll, and they'd go pick up their scroll from Patmos, at John's Scriptorium.

So then the first messenger would stop at Ephesus and read it, because the beginning of Revelation says, blessed are those who read, singular, and those who hear, plural, the words of this book. And so that messenger would then read to the church at Ephesus. The other six messengers would go on to the next set of churches until finally where he would read the message that was in actually the whole book that was in the scroll and then everybody would listen to that. Do you think those messengers were people that were already living around in the area? sent there for that purpose? No, I think they probably were a part of the churches that they read to.

And maybe one of these things were, hey, John's got a document for us and it's got a message. So at each church you pick somebody to go pick that up and they'll take it back. I imagine at this point, I forget how old John is, but he was the last apostle which I assume there are many many people going back and forth because they may have had the same sort of push internally to get as much information as they could so I would imagine through all those decades he was very well connected. So people would have just been showing up saying okay what about this, what about this, what about this.

That's conjecture. But I think there's some general backing and evidence for that. in the Old Testament, I know it's vast, where it might refer to a human being functioning as an angel. Nothing comes off. I think you find the other is the case that is happened with Abraham, he entertained three guys and it turned out they were angels, right? There's the angel of the Lord, but I still don't understand, I mean that's Christ. That's Christ, right. But I'm not sure, I mean, but he's not an angel, but it refers to him as the angel of the Lord. The angel of the Lord is pre-incarnate. Pre-incarnate, yes.

So then we have another This is one that's actually fairly common, that the seven churches are seven periods in the sequence of the church age. That is, that the church age spreads out over time and that there are seven periods in the church age. In looking that over, I have set that aside. And here's a few reasons why. One, that actually came out of the Franciscans, the Catholic Franciscan order. Peter Olivi is actually the one who originated that. So that would be one reason that, OK, what's this Middle Ages source for this idea? It's not in the text of scripture.

So this is something that was proposed churches historical churches. So yes, each of the churches is historical as a church and what we find is, and I think we'll take some time next week to look at it, but each one of the seven churches gets a message that fits the church at the end of the first century and the history and conditions that are there right then. So that's one. There are real for those historical churches at the end of the first century.

Secondly, variations within the church at large existed then as at all times. Can you summarize in one brief sentence the modern church throughout the world? Lots of variety, isn't there? So you go to Uganda, and there's one thing going on there. You come here to the United States. here in the Denver area. Lots and lots and lots of variety. And I think, as you look at it, it's tough to characterize with any consistency, oh, the church is all like this. It just doesn't happen that way.

The other thing is almost everyone who has continued on with the idea that these seven churches are seven sequential periods of time in church history Almost all of them figure that we're the Laodicean age. Well, because we don't want to be Ephesus. Yeah, we don't want to be Ephesus, right? So we're all Laodicean. And as each person, because this was back in the 1200s, right? So this is the 1200s, the 13th century AD.

And so each subsequent person who goes and makes that a period of time keeps stretching this thing out. Well, this thing is so flexible, it could fit anything, right? So that, to me, it's not helpful if it's so flexible that over, like it's been centuries since this was first proposed. And I can just keep stretching it and stretching it and stretching it. That's too flexible to be useful. And it also gives way too much wiggle room.

I'm trying to think of the one with the woman and, which church was it? There was a very strong warning about the woman and here's what I have against you. Nobody claims that one too, even if it is true. So there's just, people can wiggle out of something that they need to look at. Yeah, well in the end it's having a force fit. Anything with that flexible amount of force fit, it's just not usable.

There's also a pattern in the text, and we have a chart on the next page here, which kind of gives you the summary. One of the things that that does is in one glance, you kind of see, oh, OK, I've got each of the seven churches. I've got the passage that it's in. I have the opening.

And what's interesting is, who are the messages from? The Lord Jesus Christ. The messages are from Christ. how Christ is titled in each of the messages. Now, isn't that interesting? It doesn't say it is from Jesus in every single one. What does it do? It draws from the description of Christ, including the description of Christ out of the first chapter, distributed across the seven churches. And the part that is very, very specific to whatever that church is. So whatever quality they need to be paying attention to about the Lord Jesus Christ, it's directed to them.

So you see the description of Christ, and the description of Christ is different. One who holds the seven stars and walks among the seven landscapes. The first and the last died and came to life. So each description is different. But none of them says, Hi, I'm Christ and here's your message. What Christ knows for every single one. So you go through this, there is a consistent breakdown and pattern for every single one, but the message is not the same for every single one.

Now let's ask this question, do all of them get a commendation? A commendation. There's a column that says commendation. Do all of them get a commendation? No. Which one does not? Laodicea has no commendation. How about a rebuke? Do all of them get a rebuke? No. The second one and the sixth one do not get a rebuke.

Very interesting. How about a warning? pattern there with the same churches, right? So rebuke and warning is interesting. A couple of churches that don't get that. And then there's kind of supplemental promises that you see in the last part there. And then the final one we'll be taking a look at is the closing. He who has an ear will hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Every single one. Alright, so let's take a look then on page 5.

Who are the overcomers? Now there is an organization, Grace Evangelical Society, headed by Bob Wilkin, and they teach that the overcomers are a special group of Christians. Not all Christians get to be overcomers. As a matter of fact, if you're not an overcomer, you're going to have weeping and gnashing of teeth during the morning of kingdom. When you were in high school in chapel there was somebody who was teaching that and you came home and we didn't know where it came from and now we know. Yeah, so it's graced even the Oracle Society. Bob Wilkin is the head of that. We have even some of them represented here locally in this part of Colorado.

But looking at the facts, I don't see that that's scripturally supported. There's a few different views on this one. Yeah. It's similar to the. people who say that if you don't speak in tongues, you aren't saved. Yeah, so they're dividing up the body of Christ based on some particular, essentially unbiblical indicator. The first is the loss of salvation view.

So those who are overcome are those who stay saved. They're the overcomers. We could go into way too much on that, but I'll just point to John 10.28, and here's the expanded translation. And I am constantly giving them life eternal, and it is not even remotely possible for them to destroy themselves into the eternity, nor for any to steal them by force out of my hand." So this is words of Christ, and it's emphatic. OK.

Another is that the overcomers are a special category of obedient, dedicated Christians. This is the Grace Evenfield Society view. But, 1 John 5.5, and of course this makes him royal and all that. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God? You're an overcomer, right? You're an overcomer.

Revelation 21, 6 and 7, then he said to me, it is done. I'm the Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end, I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. Sounds like grace to me. He who overcomes will inherit these things and I will be his God and he will be my son. He who overcomes will inherit these things and I will be his God and he will be my son.

So, what you find is, I take the works of John. I look earlier in 1 John 5 and it tells me that the overcomer is the one who believes. But I've got one more thing, and that's in this table down below, and that is that every single one of the promises to the overcomers is fulfilled for all believers from chapters 19, 20, 21, and 22. So no matter whether you look forward in 1 John 5, he believes is the one who overcomes, or whether you look towards the end the book of Revelation, the last four chapters, either way, the overcomer is the one who believes.

And nobody is going to be left weeping and gnashing of teeth and out of darkness because they didn't quite make it. So, overcomers could be also just called believers? Yeah, and to keep it simple, overcomers are believers. And will there be differences over war? Yes, there will be differences of reward, but if you're an overcomer, you're a believer, and you're going to be there with the Lord, right? And you're not going to spend the Millennial Kingdom in outer darkness and weeping and gnashing your teeth. That's your first reward that you're there. Yes, yes.

So anyway, to me scripture is very clear on this, and there is no place for this special category of Christian. And the same thing, scripture is clear, it's not a loss of salvation if you leave it, or you've got to stay an overcomer. Well, so Christ being the first fruit is actually the first overcomer. So then, positionally, any believer...

Jesus in the Gospel of John. Now here's John writing very consistently again. Who's the overcomer in the Gospel of John? Christ, I have overcome the world. And because He has overcome, and we believe in Him, we are overcomers. And what's that? We say believe, and John's real simple on that. What's the continuing emphasis in the Gospel of John? Believe, believe, believe.

These things are written that you might believe. And I'll need to know. To know so you can. To know with certainty. That's actually a good point because one of the things that you see everywhere, at least in America, are beautiful script belief. Just that word and people will hang it up here and there. Just whimsical, wispy belief. Okay, let's look on the top of page six. The closing remark, which is not the last in every passage, but is included in every one, is this statement. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Now, this is really cool. He who has an ear, let him hear.

Is this written to individuals? Yes. So it's written to individuals, what the Spirit says to the churches. Is this written to churches? Yes. the church to whom the message is written, does only that church get that message and that otherwise secret? No, because it doesn't define it that way.

No, but he who has an ear, but in here, and by the way, is that this hearing? No. It's spiritually, right? So this is talking about, we mentioned before there are five senses in the physical realm and five senses in the spiritual realm. This is talking about the senses in the spiritual realm, correct? Right? But in here, what the Spirit says to the churches.

You're not reading somebody else's mail. Look at it. So what does that mean? What that means is, here I've got seven historical churches with a variety of messages all the way from no commendation, Laodicea, to a couple of them with no rebukes and no warnings. So you've got quite a spread there in terms of the messages to the churches.

Can I take that personally? I can take it personally. Are there things for me individually to learn? Yes. And so it's kind of our terminology might be a shoe fits where. So there's that. And then as a church body, can I take it? Yes, I can. So not only do I individually have the opportunity to apply that, but I also look and say, okay, if I were to take this set of messages, what would come together as a message for Holly Hills? What would that look like? So even as a church body, there are things to take away from this, and personal things. So lots of real application in these messages to the seven churches.

Do you mind if I restate what I understand you to just say? Okay. So if it says, he who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches, if I understand it's as if I were to say to my son, if you and my husband, if you and Craig were having a conversation, and I was to say to Tristan, listen to what they're saying. Now it's your conversation, but I have just informed him that this is information he needs. So listen to that and apply whatever you are learning. Is that what you were? Yes. I'm like, okay, thank you. In other words, you're looking at these messages.

Are any of these messages to the Southern Churches written directly to us? No. None of them are written directly, but he's saying, look at these and make personal learn from it. In some cases, it may be a matter of, oh, I really have to correct something. There may also be some encouragement. And it may also be something that you look at and you say, well, you know, I don't have to correct anything, but I sure understand the warning. So there's lots of things to learn from in these. This is a very rich passage of scripture.

It's funny, in the middle of Revelation, Revelation 13.9, it will say, if anyone has an ear, let him hear once. It says that. So very interesting. The character of the tribulation period will be different. And then the meaning of the symbols explained by John. This is what we looked at previously in Revelation.

And so we quote here from Revelation 1.12 through 16. And then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me. Of course, we talk about that as a figure of speech, because we don't see a voice, right? It is the ellipsis, because to see the source of the voice that was speaking to me.

And having turned, I saw seven golden lampstands. In the middle of the lampstands, I saw one like a son of man, clothed with a robe, reaching down to his feet. Now, to get directly to it, in verse 16, in his right hand, he held seven stars. So what do those mean? This is an instance where John explains what those are, right in the text. So verse 16 talks about the seven stars, verses 12 and 13 talk about the lampstands.

Now in Revelation 1.20, as for the mystery, and remember what's a mystery? Previously unrevealed, truth now revealed. So the mystery, and I'm going to reveal it now, that's what he's saying, the mystery of the seven stars, which you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels, or you might say messengers, of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. Any question about what those mean? Is there any indication of those that they represent time periods?

There's nothing in there that says that. Now, so let's take a look at the chart on the next page. It looks like this. So there's a chart there on page 7, and that lists all the places in the book of Revelation where it explains the symbol. There they are. You've got the whole list. And so at each one, including the one we just looked at, So you can go through the whole book and be ready for the next one. So here's the explanation.

Occasionally you'll have some kind of additional confirmation. For example, midway down it says time, times, and half a time. There's also 1260 days, 42 months, and 30 days. And in the middle of the Tribulation period of seven years, so that's three and a half years, which is the same as 1260 days, which is the same as 42 months.

So you have instances like that where you have multiple explanations and confirmations. So what we'll take a look at is more of these kind of interpretive where you get some more tools to work with. In the end, applying these consistently, we'll be taking a look at the cultural background for each of the seven cities in which these churches were located, but as we apply them consistently, You'll be able, yourself, to look at the Book of Revelation and be able to interpret clearly what each part means by applying the same principles. So, questions, thoughts, discussions? We're relatively speaking going to get it done sooner. Hi. Hi. So, I was curious.

So 7 is a Jewish numbering system. And why would it be? Let's ask why would 7 be a very significant Jewish numbering system? Because it encompasses totality and completeness. That's what it conveys. Where did it get started? Genesis. Genesis, where? Creation.

So with that said, seven churches, is there something, because you know, he has seven stars, he has seven eyes, so is there something, is it like complete unity, or is there something around that? I don't know if I understand, are you asking, within the seven churches, is there a totality of what to look for as warning, as encouragement, as whatever? Does it encompass the heavens and the earth idea? Let's ask this question. In Asia, where John was, were there only seven churches? No. So he actually picked specific ones. They had to be sequential and clockwise going through the Roman postal route. And they're not all the same. Everyone is different.

And it's got everything from warning and rebuke and commendation and encouragement, all those things. I believe with the idea to convey a full spectrum of different spiritual issues and it's also probably a good thing for us to look at in terms of you know, having a full diet for individuals, for a church. Is it possible that a church can just be all encouragement all the time? And does that always fit? No, sometimes other things are called for. So, you know, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

There's a full spectrum of everything from warning and rebuke and all that. but also encouragement and support and things of that sort. So there's a good healthy spectrum. How about a church that would just all rebuke all the time? That's not good. So essentially there needs to be a spectrum there and if we get off on one end or the other it can be unhealthy. And by the way there are churches that are just all encouragement all the time and there are churches that are all rebuke all the time. And it's not good.

Yes, if we are to I mean is it a help is it an appropriate thing to view the seven churches? so there's the Jewish mindset of totality right within that there is a a There's a complete There's a completeness in terms of what the issues or what the potential issues are for people to understand And you look at that and apply appropriately to whatever individual church according to wherever you are in the ages. Instead of the time frame one that has taken over how people view those. So it's better to think of it as the Jewish totality system than this, okay, this is this, you know, from, I don't know, I'm making this up, eleven, whatever, to, you know, thirteen hundred, whatever.

That church, okay, so is that what you're asking? Yeah, so, okay, so it's a completeness of spiritual health to the church. Yeah, you look at it, there are a lot more than seven churches there. Absolutely. Even during Paul's time, you know, it talks about, you know, all Asia had received the gospel, and they had been thorough in going out into these areas. So, but he picked seven, and why those seven?

And you look at it, oh there's quite a spectrum there of everything, you know, rebuke and warning and commendation and I know this and you know, and it's the totality of that that is really needed. You know, in a church body, the totality of that that is needed for individuals, and that's why he who, you know, As an ear, let him hear individually what the Spirit says to the churches. There is both individual feeding and support and correction and all the things that are needed there, as well as what whole churches need.

And that's why for me personally, I'm very often thinking, what letter would Christ write to us? What message? When you taught on Hebrews, I'm not going to get correct, but you also spoke on, was it Abraham and his faith and he just walked, and if the Lord has one person that he is working through, great things can happen. Now, that's not exactly, because that was wild, but if there's Is there a connection to that too, that if at least one is hearing, there's the potential of health growing in a body? Yeah, let's think about that.

Does God in a church talk only through one person, or does God work throughout the entire church body? He uses it all. A healthy church body, the Lord is using different parts of the church body for different purposes. We don't all have the same spiritual gift, and the spiritual gift is not all concentrated in one person. So essentially it's a church body function. But yeah, there may be a need at least for one person to hear. What happens if there's nobody that is able to hear what the Lord is saying to a church? Pull the lampstand out. We don't get to represent Christ anymore. None of these churches is around today.

It wasn't just the Muslims coming in that wiped them out. Some of them were taken out far sooner than the Muslims coming in six centuries later. It's kind of interesting, I did this once, but if you take a little dot and you put it on each one of the seven churches and then you draw a line, kind of like draw the dots or whatever, it's kind of the shape of a heart. It's not a circle, is it? I know what I'm doing this afternoon. Connect the dots.

It's kind of a rabbit trail, but on the Church of Christ at Dandler-Oakland, there's a big sign that says, where did our Bible come from? And then it says, come here and learn. I thought, if I had a lot of time to waste, that would be an interesting thing to go listen to and see what their explanation of it is. And I don't even know if their Bible is like our Bible. I think their Bible is generally the same. Or like in the Athenagians, like in Romans, or all that type of stuff. Quick summary, they're out of the Campbellite movement. And the Campbellite movement was contemporary with Joseph Smith. as to which one was the reforming church.

But it also didn't say that you had to be baptized before you could understand that. Yes, and a lot of the Church of Christ doctrine is, when you talk about baptism, you have to list all your sins before you're baptized, and if you don't list all of them, you missed one, then you're not saved.

That can take a really long time. Well that assumes that I actually understand all of my sins. Exactly. I talked to one fellow and he says I missed one so I'm going to save you. He forgot to list one. Other thoughts, questions? Was that the sin of omission? Yes. Other thoughts, questions?

Lord, we thank you just for the clarity in your word and for this very special book of Revelation, and this one book with a promised blessing for those who read and hear. And we thank you that if we look at these things, we can gain clarity, not just so that we know the stuff, but so that we know you. And so we pray these things, Lord, in Jesus' name. Amen.