Biblical Counseling
Vern Peterman · Dec 21, 2008
Biblical Counseling, No. 38
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://www.hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/4926119267799

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

We're going to have, as a wrap-up on this biblical counseling topic, we're going to have two weeks on church discipline. And I know a lot of you are thinking, oh no, dunking tanks and pillories and thumbscrews. But no, that's not what we're talking about.

And so you can breathe a sigh of relief. Church discipline, and this lesson here today will bring the focus on it. Church discipline is a matter of dealing with believers who have somehow gotten off track in some respect. And the focus here is ultimately for believers who are walking in fellowship with the Lord to restore them gently.

And we want to take a look at what that means. So that's the ultimate goal. The goal of church discipline, if you will, is not to make sure they got a good whack and a smack, but instead to look at gently restoring believers so that the believer resumes a walk with the Lord, so that the believer goes to a place of walking in fellowship with the Lord and in fellowship with other believers. Okay, so let's take a look here. We have this Church Discipline. What is it? The starting point is that the goal is for the erring brother or sister to be restored. It's restoration, not punishment.

Church Discipline has come to be either misunderstood And I've seen situations where, you know, boy, they really pound on somebody. Or actually what's more common in our culture is to just let everything go. People doing all sorts of things and the church leadership just pays no attention to it. I've seen that as well. So both of those. Anybody been involved in something like this called church discipline? You've seen that? Yeah. Did it turn out good? Uh-huh. Okay. All right. So yeah, and unfortunately it happens.

By the way, in the U.S., about 1,500 pastors leave the pastorate altogether. Entirely. I'm not talking about switching churches. Leave the pastorate altogether every month. every month. Isn't that something? Being a pastor is a really precarious thing. Pastors have the third highest divorce rate of occupations. Eighty percent of pastors, when confidentially polled, said that they were over the line in their time commitments in the church. There's way too much church time, usually not enough spouse and family time.

And that's just for starters. So that can be an example. It's one of the worst. You think, okay, here's this pastor and he's supposed to be leading and he ends up coming apart at the seams. That's really a shame, isn't it? Okay, let's take a look here.

Here is a key verse for what we're going to be looking at today and that's Galatians 6.1. Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, You who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted." This Greek word that's translated trespass means to fall alongside. Picturing a believer falling alongside the path of the Christian walk. This Christian walk is walking by means of the Spirit.

That's the chapter right before and just some verses prior to this one in Galatians 5.16.

In Galatians 5.16 that walking is from the word peripateo and it's an individual step-by-step walk for each believer. That's what that's talking about, that word.

In Galatians 5.25 he switches the term to, it's not an individual walk, it's a walking together as a group and actually it's a military term.

Everybody walking in sync. I don't mean walking in the sink, I mean walking in sync. Don't walk in the sink, that's probably not a good idea. So there's a difference there and it's interesting. Why would Paul use two different words like that for walking and why would that make a difference? Why does each of them have a place? Why is it valuable to point out individual believers have a walk and that we have a walk together? Why is that a value? I've either baffled you or frightened you. I don't know which. Let's look at it this way. In the individual walk, why would my individual walk matter as a believer? Just me. Why would my individual walk matter?

Okay, yeah, but one thing is is there isn't any believer in the church that doesn't make any difference every single one matters Okay, that's that's one good reason. Yeah In fellowship with him so it's in individual fellowship with him and that's and that's you know one believer at a time, isn't it? All right. Yeah each person matters What's that? I'm sorry, you just scratched yourself. Be careful around here. You scratch your chin and all of a sudden you're volunteering.

But essentially here, what it's looking at is we have individuals and each individual believer's walk is important. And with this next word, stōkeō, walking together tells us is that our walk with one another matters. And the particular word that he has is, has a walking in harmony. Ever been in a situation where, you know, a bunch of people are walking and somebody stops or trips or, you know, and all of a sudden everybody gets jammed up and bumps into each other? That, you know, accidents and discoordination and bumping into each other and tripping over each other, it gets to be a big issue. Essentially this is walking together so that it's in the same direction, on the same path, with the same purpose.

Yeah? Sometimes you go in the same direction, same path, same purpose. Like at an airport, if you're on a walk-a-later and something does happen, you're in the same direction. Yeah. Let's see. Let's take a look here. Now a walk along the path not only has two characteristics of count, an individual and a group walk, but has a point-in-time sequence as well as an overtime sequence. What do we mean by that?

In truth, I can walk along the path by means of the Spirit moment by moment, that is, as the moments come along. And so there's each moment, but then the accumulation of those moments is actually what spiritual growth consists of. It's those times when I walk in fellowship with the Lord. The accumulative effect of that is to bring about spiritual growth. So one of the reasons for restoring a believer is so that, yes, they can be in fellowship with the Lord and with other believers, but also restoring because that believer then can grow spiritually and the body grows. So there's both a point in time issue of restoring as well as the, you know, what are we doing this for in the longer term? We want that believer to grow spiritually. Well, let's take an example.

Back in July, my daughter had this little baby, Nadia. And Nadia is cute and grows really fast. And that's why every week they post new pictures. And of course, being grandparents, you've got to look at them. Right. But and as cute as Nadia is, if she looked and behaved the same 10 years from now, we would be very concerned. Right. So spiritual growth is kind of like that as well. Spiritual growth is something that you want to see happening in believers, individually, and among us together as believers, corporately. Now when someone has fallen off the path, let's ask this question.

Should we do this? Should we wait until they've got a bunch of sins to deal with? Wait until there's a certain mass of sins to deal with it. Should we do that? Because we don't want to bother them. Or is it right to deal with individual sins? Which one is right? Does it depend on how big it is?

And I think, yeah, one thing is while it is possible to sit there and just be nitpicky, you know, it could be that, you know, if we go around just being nitpicky that someone becomes afraid to come here because, you know, they get attacked again. But first of all, it's restorative, isn't it? And then the other thing is there are other questions about whether the believer who is doing the correcting is spiritually qualified. We'll look at that in a minute as well. But there is an answer. Let's take a look at the next page on your handout. And that next page has a few verses to add to the one we just read.

Notice in Galatians 6.1, if a believer has any trespass, any singular one, notice in these passages here, Matthew 18.15, Colossians 3 and 1 Timothy 5, each one of them, the fault or complaint or accusation is singular or plural. It's singular in each case. Isn't that interesting? So what that tells us is we don't just sit around and say, well, I've got to wait until that guy's got a heap of sins before we deal with things. But actually, the biblical teaching is just one. And why would that be? Let's talk about why would scripture be so systematic here in saying one. Why would that be?

The issue for Christians is not necessarily the specific sins, but we are trusted in whether we're walking in the Spirit or not. If there are sins evident in our lives, often times that's because there's a lot more times that we've been not walking in the Spirit, we've been walking in the flesh, which is the central issue. The sin is the symptom, right? And so we don't necessarily have to wait for a multitude of symptoms. when ultimately what are you wanting the believer to do? To walk in fellowship with the Lord. To walk in fellowship with brothers and sisters. That's really what it is. It isn't that the ultimate issue is the behavior. We're not talking about the Christian police here.

One of the things that Nancy and I did some years ago when we were over in Germany, it was a business trip, but we did have a little bit of time to do some touring. One of the places I took her is one that I'd been to before. It's a little town called Rothenburg and it's a town preserved from the 13 and 1400s and they had there a criminal museum. Very interesting museum. But one of the interesting points was the police had the power of enforcement.

Have you ever seen these portraits of important people from centuries back and they'd have big collars? Ever seen those? Sometimes huge, big frilly collars. Well, apparently there were seven sizes of collars. that they were legally defined and you were allowed to have a certain size depending on your rank and social and economic status. And wearing a size outside of what you were allowed was illegal. And the police may have other enforcements, but one of the things that they could do is come and tear or cut your collar off if it was not the legal size.

Well, we don't want as believers to be policemen watching collars and just superficial things. We want really to be looking at what are the heart issues here, right? And so you're right, Jeremy. It's ultimately coming back to we don't want to just stop or start a behavior. We want to have that believer walking in fellowship with the Lord. Big difference there, isn't it? So it's not the behavior police. It's not what we're looking at. What we're really looking at is we want that believer to be walking in fellowship with the Lord.

That's what it's about, isn't it? Thanks for bringing that up. That's a really good point. Now, how about the qualifications of the believer who is in this restoring ministry? Because that's really what it's about, isn't it? It's not the behavior police, but it's really a restoring ministry. And so let's take a look at it.

It says there in the last half of Galatians 6.1, You who are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of gentleness, each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. This Greek word that's translated restoring is one that's used in the New Testament times for mending nets, and a couple places there in the Gospels reference Matthew and Mark, and for setting broken bones. Isn't that interesting? Mending nets and setting broken bones. So it's a matter of putting something back in a condition of service and usefulness. Imagine what it would be like to go out and fish all night with a net that is just full of holes.

Have you ever seen anyone who had a bone mend that had not been set? I knew a fellow decades ago who had two elbows. One of them moved and the other one was fixed. He had not had the bone set when he broke his forearm. And so he had two elbows. It was kind of, well, it caught your attention. And that's the thing.

Restoring things so that healing can take place. Restoring things so that there's usefulness. I think that's a part of it, and we've been talking about this in the biblical counseling class up to this point. See, it's not just usefulness, but it's also so that proper healing can take place. See, isn't it possible for us as believers to have different things come up that are hurtful, different things that are painful. And so a part of it is bringing things about so that the believer can heal over what might have made them hurt to a point of being kind of out of service and difficult to be useful. We have a thought?

Just don't you have to re-break the bone to set that again? You're talking about that particular case? Yeah, I mean they would have to re-break or even cut the bone to fix it. I assume in his case that he considered it not worthwhile. But yeah, you would have to do that. In this case, though, what it's talking about is setting the bone initially so that it heals properly. And that's what the word refers to. Okay. Yes?

You mentioned just briefly, asked if anyone had something to do with church discipline. I wonder under what circumstances might, aside from carrying an automatic weapon into a church? Might a church or a pastor forbid a person to come into a church? Well, we'll be getting into that some next week. I would say in the case I have been personally involved in, it wasn't a forbidding, except forbidding a certain behavior. I'll just tell you, it was a church I was an elder at, and I was part-time on staff.

And one of the gals came to me and said, you know, this guy over here, he's come into our church here just in the last couple of weeks, and he is just hunting women like a wolf. And so I had to pull them aside and I said, you know, you're welcome to be here among us and fellowship and worship and take advantage of the teaching. But I said, you may not hunt our women. And so it wasn't a matter of telling them to go away. But in fact, that was the last time I saw him. Because basically, he wanted to hunt women. And if he couldn't do that, that's not what he was going to stick around for.

So that's a partial answer to your question. We'll go into that a little bit more next week. But important question, because it can get that way. And ultimately, you still want to restore it, don't you? I would rather this fellow have have kind of listened and learned a lesson and remained in fellowship with us, but obviously his purpose was something else. Let's look at the bullet points there.

You who are spiritual Is this to make sure that the person is really snobby and snooty? Really spiritual. Is that what it means? No. He had just defined what being spiritual means in verses just prior to that, in Galatians 5.16 to be specific, and that was walking in fellowship by means of the Spirit. That's what spiritual is.

Anything else is something else. It's nudiness or arrogance or something else. Or I'm better than you. But that's not what he's talking about. He's saying those who are responsive to and walking in fellowship by means of the Spirit's ministry That's what he means by you who are spiritual. So notice this is not just people going around looking for behaviors and saying, there's a behavior that they ought not to have. Bam! It is the person who is responsive to the Holy Spirit because they're walking in fellowship with him. That person is qualified. But that's not all. Notice what else he has.

In a spirit of gentleness, what's that? What's a spirit of gentleness? The opposite of condemnation. I don't have slate covers on my Bible that I go and whack people over the head with. The opposite of condemnation. What else is there about gentleness? And that's an important one. But what else is there about gentleness? Isn't that meekness? Okay, and meekness has been one of the other translations of that same word. In love, okay.

Notice what happens is, how does it come across when I'm talking to this person? Am I coming across like I just can't wait to put a notch on my Bible? Yeah, this grace of the soul. Does it come across that I'm doing this because I care, or because I want some kind of spiritual brownie points? And am I looking to restore, or am I looking for a victim?

So how it comes across is important. Yeah, Jeremy? It's interesting. In order to see that a person is not where they should be spiritually. I think that goes along with it. Okay, you mentioned this intimacy, this fellowship. Now, are you saying then that that needs to be there before this contact is made?

Yes. Okay, alright. Yeah, this is not, I'm a stranger and you don't know me, but I just happened to pick you out of the crowd and I noticed, kabang! Yeah, so it's not that, is it? Okay. What else is important? Let me just ask this. Why do they say spirit of gentleness? Why don't they just say gently or something? Why is the spirit of gentleness important? Why does that matter?

The leading of the Lord. Okay, the leading of the Lord. This thing has a spiritual aspect. What else? The spirit of the Lord. Ah, yeah. This is something where you already talked about being spiritual. And so this is something that comes from the spirits working. It is also something that the correction comes from the spiritual level. It's not just an intellectual conclusion.

It's not, I'm going to be gentle and I've got this checklist here to make sure that I'm gentle. 12 points. I don't just go, okay, I didn't whack him across the head. Okay, I'm gentle. Okay? Let's see, I didn't put two R's in dirty and two T's in rat. So it must be, I did it gently. Right? You sound like Gerald Stanley. Oh, heavens. So the gently is not legally defined. The gently is not a checklist. Gently comes from the believer walking by means of the spirit. Gently comes as a spiritual expression. Not even just emotionally, but spiritually. Okay?

I almost think it should be something you don't even want to do. Something that would just break your heart to have to even do. Did you hear what Mommy said? No. I almost, I'll rephrase it, almost a reluctance that it's something, boy, it pains me to have to do this.

Yeah, that way you're not coming across as, you know, boy, I've got my short, my sword sharpened, and, you know, I've got my axe out. Yeah, no, this is something you look at and you say, you know, boy, I would rather not do this, but on the other hand, I know that I must.

And so it will come across gently. Because in the end, what would you rather they be doing? You'd rather that they were walking in a fellowship, right? Yeah, sure. Let's take a look at the next one. Each one looking to yourself so that you too will not be tempted.

Okay, so does this mean you've got to be cross-eyed and focused on your navel? What is this talking about? You have to be self-absorbed to do this? What does it mean looking to yourself? Okay, yeah. There's kind of a stopping point of self-assessment on this. What are some of the things that a person would ask themselves or look for at this place of looking to yourself? What are some of the things you'd be wanting to say, I want to make sure that I'm on the right course here before I step out and speak? What might you be looking at? Yeah, hypocrisy would be the worst, right?

Yeah, so you go up and say, heavens, you've got to quit wearing mixed colored socks. And they look down, well, you've got mixed colored socks too, right? This is not the pot calling the kettle black. So that'd be one, that'd be good. What else? You'd want to look at scripture and examine not only verses like this, but what's applicable. And right along with that, you bring up an important point.

It also needs to be a truly biblical issue, not just an opinion. You know, you say, you know, Vern, you shouldn't come into church with no hair. You know, well, OK, I'd be glad not to. Is that a biblical issue or a personal opinion? Yes. Ah, very good point. Did you hear him?

In the Christian life, we have liberties and we don't go after an issue that's really someone else's liberty. There are things we can do or not do. This last week, somebody called me and said, do I have to celebrate Christmas? I said no. we have the liberty to do so as believers, and we choose to do that here at Holly Hills, but not just joining in the world's measure of what it is, but we have the liberty to do so. We're not under compulsion to do so. Yeah, Tom?

There's a kind of side issue there, and I'll be brief, but if you look at the word itself, it really goes back to Catholicism, so I just say Happy Nativity instead of Merry Christmas. Yeah, I think, and I think ultimately, ultimately, I think a lot of Christians would ask the question, you know, in the end, does what we're doing bring a focus upon Christ? So we have the liberty, but not the compulsion.

But we don't judge another believer's liberty. That's not what we come to people about. Well, I think one of the things we're looking at is the previous part of the verse. Are we doing it out of spirit of grace? Are we doing it, not from a legalistic standpoint, like you need to come up to my level, but understanding that we are, we're at the same part, we're at the same place, and that God is, anything that we're doing is because of grace, and anything that we can do is of grace, and understanding that, and that's not, I'm better than you, and this is how you can be like me.

There was an international gathering of Christians from different backgrounds, and actually from different countries. It was in Jerusalem, and this was some years ago. And there were believers from different countries. And of course, being from different countries, they had different Christian backgrounds.

And one set of believers was looking over there somebody was eating or drinking something that they didn't think was a good idea. So after a fair amount of discussion at the table from that one country, they walked over to these Christians who happened to be Italian. And so these Italian Christians were approached by this one representative and he came to exhort them about their diet. And as soon as that began, the Italian table said, but you drink coffee! You know, they're terribly offended by the coffee drinking. See?

And in reality, none of it mattered. And there are areas of liberty. So it's important to really think about, is this truly a biblical issue? Right? Yeah. If you had liberty that became an addiction or out of place that took over a large part of your life? Would that be something that would be addressed? Yeah, and I think that's the thing.

It is possible for something that's completely wholesome to take over to the place where it's not. To kind of just to bring it to a point of a strange joke, I'll tell it briefly. There was a fellow who went to go see a psychiatrist because the psychiatrist was told that this guy had a problem. And so the psychiatrist says, well, what exactly is the problem here?

Well, my friends tell me that I like pancakes too much. And the psychiatrist says, well, I don't see what's wrong with that. I like pancakes too. And the guy says, you do? Oh, you've got to come over to my place. Up in the attic, I've got three trunks full of them. You know? It is possible for something completely wholesome to get to the place where because of excess and imbalance it's out of whack. So that's correct.

There's something else here and that's that while we don't want to have things be a matter of external checklists, Biblical doctrine and biblical morality do matter, and both of them matter. So the question is why do they matter? Let's take a look at how these things fit. Take a look at the top of page 127 there, the third page.

We have a diagram that shows the physical realm and the spiritual realm. Here's something very interesting, and that is from the physical realm we have God's Word, which here we take it from the physical realm It enters us and impacts us spiritually. Isn't that something? So we've got that. That's why biblical doctrine matters.

It's spiritual food. When in this country we have a problem with some contaminant, or recently it's been E. coli issues with different vegetables. Vegetables look perfectly good, but contaminated. So that gets to be a serious problem and puts people in the hospital and even some extreme cases, even deaths have occurred. But the point being that what we take in matters. The spiritual food and its quality matters. It doesn't make a difference. Notice the other part of it.

From the spiritual realm, is the life of the Lord. That's what this infinity and theta symbol are about. The life of the Lord, which is to be lived in and through us. That's God's intent. So that's why doctrine and morality matter. Not so that we go around and be nitpicky about either one of them. But the doctrine is our food. That's how we take in spiritual, you know, nutrition, if you will. And the morality is the expression of the very life of Christ. So to get to Jeremy's point, it's not just around going about as if we had the Christian moral police, but the real question is, where is this life coming from that's lived out among us, see?

So that's really the issue, isn't it? It's a spiritual depth issue, not a matter of externalism and being really nitpicky. Right? So usually it's doctrine where the person generally needs correct teaching. Well, yeah, and doctrine is not just so that we can say, okay, y'all believe this, right? And then put it on the shelf for a while and blow it off and say, hey, we still believe this, right? Doctrine is to be lived out. And that's the connection between the two. That's why when Paul wrote to Timothy, watch your life and doctrine closely. Why? They matter. And they're connected.

And it has to do with spiritual depth, not just being nitpicky or superficial or external. So the believer isn't intended to think about the Christian life as just believing the cold hard spiritual facts and externally producing the moral compliance with what the Bible says is Christian. This isn't just packing our heads full of stuff, and it isn't just being a good Christian. In fact, I would tell you, don't try to be a good Christian.

It's not worth it. Besides, that's not what God has in mind. Don't try it. Don't try this at home or anywhere else. Don't try. It is the Lord's to-do. It's the Lord's to-do. That's why he doesn't say, OK, go out and be good when he writes these verses here. He says, walk by means of the Spirit, and that will have the fruit that looks like this. As Jeremy pointed out, it's the walk, it's the relationship, it's the fellowship that's at issue here.

So when we start to put these truths together, I think Galatians 2.20 points at the critical issues here. When we're looking at restoring someone, it's not just, hey, you've got to get the right doctor in your head and forcing it down somebody's throat. It's not just, you've got to stop this behavior and start that one.

But it is a matter of what Galatians 2.20 summarizes here. Let's read through it. I have been crucified with Christ And that happened because of what God did, and all I did was believe.

That's our eternal position. It is no longer I who live, or I could put it this way, it's no longer I who does the living. It is no longer I who does the living. I'm done here. But Christ does the living in me. Christ lives in me. He is the one that does the living, okay? And the life which I now live in the flesh, and by the way, that word flesh means here in the body, okay? The life that I live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, that's our moment-by-moment condition. I walk by faith, moment-by-moment, okay? Who loved me and gave himself up for me. eternal position. He loved me. He still loves me. He gave himself up for me.

And I was talking to somebody not too many months ago and I told him, I said, I'm done here. He does the living here. I do the living up there. I'm through here. That's really where it's at, isn't it? I was telling somebody just this last week, I was working on a project. As a matter of fact, I finished it up 10 years ago last month.

And the project was just awful. It was terrible. I was getting phone calls in the middle of the night. I was talking to more lawyers than I'd ever talked to in my life. And it was a miracle that nobody ever sued with all the lawyers that we're talking to. And the problem with this project wasn't my fault even. but I was the one appointed to fix it.

So, going through that, I got to a place where I said, now I can't handle this anymore. I can't handle this anymore. Lord, you got to do it. And the Lord says, yeah. That's exactly what I had in mind. That's exactly what I had in mind. He said, I never intended for you to walk through this. That's His to do.

So the insight from taking in this piece of spiritual food is that it's not up to me to do the living here on planet Earth. It's not. In fact, when we talk about restoring somebody, what are we wanting to restore them to? It's not that we principally want them to just change their behavior.

As Jeremy pointed out earlier, that's the symptom. What we principally want them to do is let Christ do the living. You live up in the heavenly places where you're seated. But as far as what happens in this body, let Christ do the living here. It's not up to me. I'm done here. I'm through. It's His to do. It's Christ to do in and through me. That's His job. That's His place. I'm to be preoccupied with living there in the heavenlies. There where I've been seated. He does the living here. I do the living there. He is my life. All of this is by His most gracious accomplishment and not my own. All for His glory and not my own.

That's what an individual, an in-sync walk along the path is like. That's really what you're wanting to do. The restoring isn't behavior compliance and thought police compliance. You've got to have the right doctrine because we just dusted this thing off and We know you've got to believe it. But it's a matter of how we live spiritually and truthfully from the inside out. That's what it's about. It's a question of who does the living.

Okay, now, have I flabbergasted anyone? Is anyone exasperated? Would you like to express some, you know, thoughts, opinions? Yeah. So, looking at it from the perspective of giving restoration to somebody. Okay. Many times in our lives we're at it all by ourselves and so it's important. to think about it from the perspective of receiving that. So if Christ is living in that person that is reaching out to help you, or if Christ is living in you and you're helping somebody, to realize that that's what's happening and not someone's attacking you personally, but it's Christ in one of the other perspectives.

Yeah, yeah. You hear what he's saying? This is a matter of mutual recognition that even if somebody comes to me and says, you know, Vern, you need to stop doing this or start doing that. The real issue is just spiritual, you know, where's your dependence? Who's doing the living? It's not a personal attack. That has to do with, as you mentioned, how it's received as well as how it's given. Doesn't it? Yeah. Good. Thanks. Jeremy?

So, at least in my life, I've seen so many people trying to focus so much on behavior, and you miss the other part. And so the idea that we get is, well, I need to try harder. I need to do more. When, in reality, you can almost say it's restoring a person to a place of uselessness, where they realize they can't do it. They simply need to give it over.

And when you understand it from that perspective, You know, it could be a person that is trying really hard, and is doing everything in the flesh, and yet it's not really... even though their behavior is exactly what we might think it should be, they're not walking in Christ, and therefore they're not in a place where Christ would like to have them.

I think you bring up a very important point for us to recognize, and that is that a person may, in fact, be trying really hard to deal with this out of their own effort. And, you know, it may even be well-intended, even though it's out of lack of insight. But that's a really important point. You know, you may be bringing something up that'd be the first time you brought it up, but they may have been struggling with it for a long time. Could be, yeah. But where's the turning point in this?

The turning point is not to come to them and say, well, try harder. Or, I'll come alongside you and I'll try with you. But instead, a turning to and a reliance upon the Lord, so that He does the living and not us trying harder. One of the things that I've noticed, and your point brings us to it, and that is sometimes an exhortation, if it comes across as try harder, will bring a person to actually just, I give up.

That doesn't work. I've been trying. And it put in real frustration. Yeah. I think what Jeremy said, I'm totally used to it. There's nothing you can do. Yeah. So I think that's a good point, a good place to be. Exactly. Yeah. Where you are totally useless. Yeah.

And you depend upon the Lord. That's a tough place to be. That point of saying, I can't do it, of recognizing I can't do it, is a very critical turning point. And that's where our message needs to be, not just do more of the same. But to recognize, hey, that's exactly what the Lord wants to bring up. You can't do it. It is only in reliance upon Him.

Yeah? One thing about what Jeremy said, too, is if we focus on behavior, we're only looking at conditioning. We're not even thinking about conditioning. Yeah. You get that? If we focus on behavior, he says, we're only looking at condition. We've lost sight of and are not looking at what is this person's position. Okay? It's pretty interesting, isn't it, that when we are doing something, a behavior, out of our own strength, it comes across as self-righteousness. But when we are doing it in Christ's strength, when He is doing it through us, it comes through as Him.

And it's the same action, but the motivation, the power source, is so significantly different that people see the difference. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that something? It does come down to what's the source of the behavior. That's really what's at issue. Not just try to stop this or try to start that. And that's key. And it's key as we speak to people to really bring it to that. Not just you've got to stop this or start that behavior. Or believe this or stop believing that. Good. Other thoughts? Wow. Okay. Yeah? You may need to correct this, so what I'm saying is not intended to be... If I need to correct it, I'll do it gently, so don't worry about it.

Years ago, I happened to see a program on athletes, and the fact that they said, if athletes visualize doing the right thing, doing the right stroke, or the right skimmer, or the right skater, they actually see an improvement in their athletic performance.

And trying to make kind of an analogy that probably falls apart, the more we behold Christ, the more we are able to reflect Him, because we see Him. and it's him then that gets saved through us. Yeah, I think that goes along with we are wanting the believer who is somehow, you know, fallen off the path. We want them to behold the Lord. We want them to have their focus upon the Lord. Typically, you know, how you could characterize this falling off the path is they've somehow gotten their eyes off the Lord and on to some other thing, whatever it is. coffee or whatever it is that seems to be stumbling them, right?

Good. Other thoughts? And by the way, I'm glad you could join us here. Your name is, if you don't mind, I'm not embarrassing you. Matt Sealy, my wife. I'm with us as Jeremy's assistant. All right. Oh, good. Well, welcome. Glad you could join us. Where are you coming from? New Brunswick, Canada. Oh, that's a long walk. Oh, man. I'm a little tired. Yeah. OK.

Well, we're glad you're able to recuperate enough to join us here. Well, let's pray. Lord, we thank you just as we have looked at your word here. We thank you for the opportunity to behold you through your word. We thank you for the opportunity to gain insight here, not just into Christian police training, but rather into this precious restoring ministry. restoring another believer to beholding you and to walking in fellowship with you. And likewise, walking in fellowship with one another because of it. And as we look at these, Lord, we just pray that you'd bring these truths to heart and teach us from it. We pray in Jesus' name. Amen.