You In Christ and Christ In You
Courtney Hemenway · Jul 12, 2009
You in Christ & Christ in You, No. 28
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://www.hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/4926138304738

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

You know, I was going to start today real quick, just as reading The Hungry Heart. I thought this was perfect for this class. I don't know if you read today's or not, but I thought it was right on the money. So I'll read it. Just bear with me, I guess. I just thought it was really good, kind of sums up our class.

It's called positional conduct. Law and grace are separated by the infinite chasm of the cross. Law required right conduct first, with earthly position to be earned thereby. Grace gives heavenly position immediately, which ultimately produces right conduct.

Ye are not under the law, but under grace, Romans 6.14.

The believer does not walk in order to reach the throne. On the contrary, his walk is determined by the fact that he has been placed with the Lord Jesus in a position of immeasurable ascendancy. He has been made to sit together with Christ in heavenly places in order that, having received an abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness, he might reign in life by one, even the Lord Jesus. He walks like a king because he is a king, Revelation 1 6. He is not called upon to walk in kingly fashion in order that he may reach the throne.

God's order is different. The Christian begins at the throne, and his kingly manner is only the inevitable outcome of his exalted position. Our frustrations and agonies in an effort to attain the unattainable, our shame and our defeat, such as we find in Paul's own experience tabulated so faithfully in Romans 7, come about naturally and inevitably when, failing to grasp all this, we put the emphasis on our conduct rather than our position, which must come first. of that law of grace, identification, position, condition.

That was just about everything in this one. So that was for today in the hungry heart. All right. Did we get through five? I don't think we got through five. I was just starting to do some things. Lesson 20, question five. I think we're about halfway through that. Is that where we're at?

I think I was just, and the question is, why are my actions in a grace and individual decision when my behavior is not covered by a specific command? And again, this is where we're talking about control by principles rather than laws. And I was saying, if we had to have laws, I think I equated to like having mana, we'd have every day have a new list of laws for what you're going to do for that day. If that's how God wanted it, we'd have to have a new law for today, because today is a new experience.

Today you're going to go through a whole bunch of different things. You're going to meet different people, different situations, different everything. So you're going to have to have new laws each and every day. So you'd have to wake up every day. God would have the new manifest of today's laws.

Insanity. So what he did do is give us principles. Again, thinking about that, as I was saying, the kind of itchy feeling that we don't have laws, we're kind of adrift in a sea without any boundaries. How does that work? The natural man, the endemic man, wants laws, wants boundaries, wants cause and effect, he wants metrics, he wants to do something. That's the one who's itchy about this thing. The new creature in Christ doesn't have that same itchiness or that, no laws. The new creature in Christ, when you abide in him, feels very comfortable under the liberties given in grace. And so, what are principles? What are principles? This is kind of some things under this one question. If we're not done by laws and we are under principle, what are principles? Or what are the principles? A couple of them, and we'll go through them. And we've talked about this before. Mike's talked about it, I think.

One, does something master you? Does it master you? If something masters you, can you have two masters, I guess, is the thing. So if you're doing something, Mike always brings up the guy he met, young life, the guy who was a golfer. This is my thing. What is your thing? If you're a professional athlete, or if you're a musician, or you're an engineer, and that's your thing. And that's all you think about. That's all you do that masters you.

I would say the condition of mastering is if God were to take it away from you, could you survive? That's my litmus test, does it master you? If he took my business away, would I crumble? Is my life identified with my work? You know? And those are some of the principles about, you know, guidelines, I guess.

The other is, and I used 1 Corinthians 6.12. All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but I will not be mastered by anything.

That's 1 Corinthians 6.12. The other one, principles. Will it cause my brother to stumble? OK?

1 Corinthians 8.13, Therefore if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble. Now, this one is one that everybody says, OK, if you... racing through my brain many examples, but one that I could probably get without offending anybody.

And now we're talking about offending and stumbling. If you, I don't know, well, the usual one. If you have a drink, if somebody has a drink of wine, you like a glass of wine, if Gary thinks that's bad, If I have a glass, what's the difference between stumbling and offending? The key is on stumbling, if I do this and it causes him to sin, then it brings it back that he's an alcoholic. Gary, you're not. But if you were, if I'm drinking in front of an alcoholic and I'm causing him to go back into that life of alcoholism and sinning, then that's stumbling.

If Gary's not an alcoholic, and I have a glass of wine, and he's just offended, he just doesn't think that's right. That's an offense. Whose problem is that? His. So if it causes somebody to stumble, to fall back into a sinful life, then that's stumbling. We should check on the principles if it causes somebody to stumble.

But offending is a whole different ballgame. Because this is the individuality. This is where I can't say, you know, Gary, you can't have that glass of wine, but I can. You know, you can't that this is the individuality of the principles. And so again, but a lot of people bring up, they get very judgmental and push a lot of things based on offense, not stumbling. So be very careful when you think about these principles about offense and stumbling, because they're two completely different things. And they're abused a lot of times.

You know, well, you can't drink because somebody will be offended or stumbled. Well, yeah. What if I know that my behavior is going to offend somebody to the point where they're going to get so angry about it that they sin? Well, two things. The next principle, boundary with do it in love. The key is in love. Excellent lead-in to that.

If I know it just irritates the socks off, Gary, if I do something. I don't know, I'm pretending you're the closest one, Gary. If I'm doing it and I just know it irritates your socks, and I'm going to do it anyway because I don't care, you're going to be offended, it's your problem. Is that the right attitude or principle?

No. Do it in love. If I know it irritates him, and I'm doing it just because I have the liberty to do it, but I know it irritates him, am I doing it in love? No, you're doing it in spite. Right. So again, the principle is, I have all this liberty, but does it master me? Does it cause somebody to stumble? And now, in love. Do you do it in love?

And the verse was, Ephesians 4, 15 and 16. But speaking the truth in love, there is the key, the principle. Again, these are the principles, not laws, but principles. But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies according to the proper work of each individual part causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love." The next one was also in 1 Corinthians 13, 12 and 13. I should just let you quote this. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face, now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I also have been fully known.

But now faith, hope, love, abide these three, but the greatest of these is love. Again, the principles, these are the guidelines. It's not a law, but you do it in love. And remember Mike's, which I think is in your notes, the love circle, where it starts, where does it start? With me? No. God. Love. God is love. Right? That's where the circle starts. So again, on the principles, does it edify?

And this is 1 Corinthians 10.2. All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify. And I don't know, have we gone over edify, what that means? To build up, like construction, build up. The last one of the principles, am I motivated by glorifying God only?

And this is 1 Corinthians 10.31. Whether then you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Again, these are some of the principles and the guidelines of your activity. Again, we have this great liberty But there are principles that we abide by. And these are some of the ones we've looked at from scripture, just some of the overlying principles within the liberty that we have. But don't make it a law. And these are principles. If I do it in love, OK, yeah, that's one. But am I stumbling? I'm doing it in love, but I'm stumbling.

Wait a minute. these all fit together and they're individual and they're to individual people and how you respond to individuals so we can do any activity under these principles and we're at liberty to do it okay this is again but again they're also specific commands too that are the logical imperatives you know you don't steal don't whatever adultery or whatever. There are specific things that we're not to do. If you're in Christ, you will not do it. It's because who you are, you shouldn't do those.

It's a logical imperative. So there are still those logical imperatives, but then these are the principles that are for all those other areas that we don't have the specific commands. Is everybody clear on that? Between principles and the logical imperatives? Yes? No?

Do you earn the headlight looks by everybody? So why wouldn't I wear a bracelet that said, what would Jesus do? And I had the principles. Did we put a little law in there? Yeah. Exactly. If you're doing that, you now have a law. What would Jesus do? If I do this, then this. You're putting a law back on the grace. And as we just read in The Hungry Heart, there is an immense chasm between law and grace, and that's the cross. So if what would Jesus do, that's a law. You put now a regulation back on it.

Everybody understand? OK. Six, are we to obey specific commands always? Sort of, maybe, kind of. 50-50, I'm doing good. Good point. Yes, we're to obey them. I looked at a couple of verses in John 14-15. If you love me, you will keep my commandments. This is the logical imperative. If you love me, Christ speaking, you'll do my commandments, what I told you. It's not a cause and effect. If you love me, if you're who you are in Christ, you'll do the commandments. It's not a burden.

Number seven. Explain how grace motivates behavior in the believer. I want some answers on this one. I don't want to talk. How does it motivate you? Because I get so much. What? No. Nobody knows how grace motivates you. Boy, have we got a long haul to go. You do things in a loving way. You want to be pleasing to other people. I mean, it's because it's in you. You enjoy it. It's pleasing to God.

Okay. Others? I may have said it all. It's okay. It starts with the grace circle where God loves you And as a result, you can love Him and obey His commands and go around the circle to rewards. Okay. It starts with Him. It starts with Him and the love.

Others? Nobody's motivated by grace. Well, the fact that we received God's blessings while we were His enemies and we were totally unworthy. Hey, that's great. Any others? I would add to that that the grace that we presently receive is always above our need and always undeserving and that principle never stops. That's the superabounding of grace. Where sin reigned, grace superabounded.

To me, and this is kind of woven into what you said, You know, it's also, an unbeliever is not free. In grace, we are free. We have all this liberty, all the things we're talking about. I mean, how motivating is that, that we're not under law, we're not under this, you know, do this and you get this, if you do this you're going to get punished.

You know, to me, grace is motivating because, one, when you really think about it, and this fits in with the Ephesians, you know, unlimited blessings, you know, Ephesians, we've been blessed with what? A portion. All spiritual blessings in the heavenlies. Okay?

How motivated is that? You know, and when you go back to our definition of grace that Macaulay put up, which I think is a good one, the unmerited, unlimited blessings. Unmerited. How motivated? I don't have to do anything. How motivating is that? There's no requirement on me. And then, unlimited. How much more do I want? To me, grace in its character, it's by what he's done, obviously, for us. I'm motivated because of all he's done. We do it in salvation very easily. We realize it's the free gift of salvation. There's the line. Okay, now I'm on my own. Now I've got to perform. That's totally wrong.

The grace that he exhibited in salvation is the same that He offers us through life. Yeah. 1 John 3 says that because we have the confidence that we're going to see Him, we're going to be like Him. Completely like Him. We purify ourselves. We're motivated from that. Well, and I have Titus 2, 11 through 14 for this one.

For the grace of God has appeared OK, that's the premise, the subject. Bringing salvation to all men. OK, there's what we're talking about, salvation. Instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously, and godly in the present age. Again, grace will motivate us to do that. Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed and to purify for himself a people for his own possession. zealous for good deeds. Grace makes us zealous for good deeds. When you get in this grace system, it motivates you because of all that he's done. And it's unmerited and unlimited. Grace can be very motivated, very misunderstood, but motivating.

All right, question eight. Taking into consideration the individual growth of a believer, are we allowed to make mistakes under the commands? Roger, you're shaking your head. No. You're not allowed to make mistakes? No. Any other thoughts? Because it's not great. Well, under the commands. Of course we'll make mistakes. OK. So we have a yes, we'll make mistakes. Any others? We have two. Jump on one of those bandwagons. I think you are.

Because under the law system, the rigidity of the law was you were not allowed to make a mistake. If you did, you got condemned. Under the grace system, because there are principles in operation, You may not understand the principles, so you make a mistake. Or you may not want to apply them. You may be young enough in the Lord where you know what should be done, but you just don't have it. You may not even do it. And I think grace allows for that immaturity.

Two elders right here with two different answers. This is the word mistake. imply that it's not a choice. That we weren't intending to do that. We kind of slipped up without saying, oh, okay, this is what I'm going to do, and I know it's not what I should be doing, but I'm going to do it anyway. I think he summed it up a couple different ways.

You're young, you don't know, and you make a mistake. You just don't know. The other is, I know it, but I'm still going to irritate him. I'm just going to irritate him. You know, is that doing it in love? No. Sorry, Roger. I'm in the, you can make mistakes, and that's the very reason is. Law had a direct effect. If you did this, this will be the effect.

In grace, we don't have that. I think he's merciful, he's loving, he allows us to make mistakes, and I do that And whether it's mistakes or you call them trials, the James one that I always quote is, consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials. Trials usually are brought on either by the Lord or while he allows them. Or we create them, I think, by doing something. We want to go left and he wanted us to go right or whatever. But consider also, my brother, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. Let endurance have its perfect result. It may be perfect and complete.

That you are lacking in... You're not lacking in anything, or whatever it is. So I think in grace we can make mistakes. And it's not the same as under a law system. Actually, may I clarify my answer? Okay. We have unity among the elders again. Actually, maybe it has to do with the last part of his phrase. Are we allowed to make mistakes? I took command to be someone with the law. And we're not. And Mike and I agreed on that. His first statement was that we were in agreement. Yes. So under law. Under law, yes. And maybe this is under logical imperatives.

The commands that we have for believers now. Not under the commandments. But, yeah, the principles that he said, you know, do it in love. Well, if we didn't do it in love. He allows us to, I think, make mistakes. Yeah, Gary, well, I think I lose fellowship. He'll point out. He'll make me grow in that area that I need to do things in love. He allows me to make some mistakes, I think, to grow.

So, yeah, maybe that's from the commands. Yeah. Taking your example, consider it all joy. That's the command. And he says back to me, consider it all joy, and here's the reason why. And I say back to him, I'm still not happy about this. And do I have the liberty to say to him, I'm not happy about this? You have the liberty to say that, absolutely.

Now I miss the rest and the peace of abiding in Christ and functioning outside the realms of faith and trusting Him. Even if I have that attitude, and I think that's a very common attitude in Christian circles, it is with me. He will, over time, put me in a position where I do consider it all joy. Because I understand the Holy Spirit will keep working and working and working.

And that's where the liberty is. And again, I think what you said at the beginning, we have the freedom to go, that's my Abba Father. Man, what do you mean I'm supposed to consider it all, Joy? Well, you are. And he'll keep working on it until I realize, yes, I'm supposed to be. I understand. Stephen?

Not to throw a big wrench in it, but I'm just kind of questioning the way the question is posed. Like the word aloud, I think I'd almost replace it with phrasing it somehow that Under grace, we are bound to make mistakes with the commands. So therefore, grace, I forgot the verse we referred to a lot, but grace keeps abounding further than our misdeeds. Right, where sin reigns, grace superabounds. I'm not viewing it so much as we are allowed, but if our sin nature is still intact, we are bound to make mistakes. Yes. Grace keeps abounding further. Right. I think that's a good way to put it.

I think that's, you know, we still have this sinful nature and we will fail. And God has said grace will superabound above that. I mean, we don't even get close. It seems to get in the way that sin has already been judged and done away with. as far as God's judgment and Christ's action on the cross.

I guess that's what I'm thinking about when I read that. I guess the purpose of the question is between law and grace, where law, if you did not do this, there was a consequence, an exact consequence, cause and effect. If you do this, this will happen. Whereas under grace, if we do have this old nature.

And the other thing I also think is the 2 Peter 3.18 where we are to grow in the grace and knowledge. Grow means we don't know everything at the beginning. We are to grow in this.

So as a child grows, they make mistakes. You know, don't touch this, the hot pan. Ouch! You know, they do it and they learn. I think we're in the same vein in that we make mistakes, but we learn. And that's how, through these trials, we become perfected. I think that's a good point.

Well, I think I know that same scenario too, that you're dependent. It causes you to be totally dependent on the world. The gracious life is a totally dependent life. You don't go through it independently. when we're gonna get, I think, I don't know if this one, I can't remember on this, about that, you know, slaves to sin or slave to righteousness. We have that dependency. We are a slave to the, you know, and ooh, ooh, nasty word, ooh.

Well, no, that's very, very comforting to have that. So, yeah. All right, is it more important to be teachable or to be rigidly set in my doctrine, question nine. And they all said, rigid as can be, right? Now, teachable. Teachable. And again, this is where I think we're kind of progressing and growing in, is you learn. You're growing in grace. And you have to be teachable.

So what will the word What will the word of God teach me? Romans 12, 1 and 2. Therefore, I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. So we're to be teachable. We're not to be conformed to this world. but be transformed by the renewing of our mind.

John 5.39 You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life. It is these that testify about me. The Lord himself declares himself to be the central object and theme of all written revelation. Eternal life comes by divine grace alone.

I've got, yeah, there's several others. I want to move on because I'm going to be way behind here. Question 10, is the life under grace in harmony with human rules? Of course they are. Actually, this is, it's probably worded that you want to say no. First Peter 2.13, Be subject to every human ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king or as supreme. Hmm.

I have a hard time with that. It's totally ridiculous. If you have a crazy ruler, you have to obey what he says, maybe off the wall. And we'll get into this a little bit in the next couple weeks about the authorities given here on earth because it says we're to be subject now political political I'm not happy about certain political things that happen obviously I'm the the political junkie and I'm not thrilled about things that that go on but they've got to allow that to happen killed all those Jews. Is that pathetic or what?

Right. And that's where the limitations are, is if there are things that go against the commands in the Bible, or deny Christ, or anything like that. Killing. Unjustified killing. You know, there are going to be wars, there are going to be things where there will be killing. But again, Hitler and that, yeah, you don't follow somebody who's telling you to kill innocent people or, you know, do those things. There are limitations which we'll get in. There are authorities carved out, which we have governments. You know, but just because we have a president that is not to my liking, doing a thousand things that I don't like, am I supposed to reject him?

No, it's hard, but who put him there? Who put him there? God did. So am I shaking my fist at God saying you made a mistake? I can't do that. Even though I think that sometimes and I confess that sin, I can't. God allowed that. There are presidents I like and presidents I don't like. But I've got to understand that God put every one of those in place. Yeah, to pray for them. And that's true. And boy, sometimes you choke on your tongue. But understand that God put them in there for a reason.

I may not understand that reason at all. Personally, I'm thinking it may be getting close to the end times. And I'm happy. I'm going home. Yes? I think you just brought it up. and that they're not, we're heavenly people, we're not earthly people, we just happen to be living in this country, and that the cares and woes of the world are for the world, and we're to set our affections on things above and not on things of the earth, then what does it really matter who the president is and who the idiots are in Washington? It doesn't really matter in that sense because We're just, like Peter says, we're strangers on the planet just here for a visit. You know, that's why, as I said, I'm a political junkie, but I also realize it's like watching a football game. It doesn't mean a hill of beans difference.

My citizenship's in heaven. And that's how I can tolerate good, bad, and different presidents, and administrations, and governments, and local governments, and everything like that. Because, one, I can rest in the fact that God put them there, number one. And number two, my citizenship's in heaven. I'm just a sojourner, looking. Like I said, the football game going on, I can cheer, I can root, I can do everything, but it doesn't mean anything in the scheme of things. So, the other one, Monique, Romans 13, one.

Every person, oops, every? Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. that everything gets you. If it wasn't for everybody but Courtney, that would be great, but that isn't. It's every person.

We'll get into the authorities. If they step outside of their God-given authority where they're, yeah, go and kill all the children. Then you have reason to get out from underneath that authority, but just because you don't like them and you don't like the policies, Can't do it. All right. Question 11, are we to obey certain commands that overlap from the Ten Commandments? We've just decimated the Ten Commandments. Now if they overlap, are we supposed to obey them? Yeah. Yes, we are. as they overlap.

Romans 6.15-19, what then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be.

Do you not know that when you present yourself to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death or of obedience resulting in righteousness. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed. And having been freed from sin, you become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms because of the weaknesses of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification."

Again, the point being is that anything that overlaps those commands in the Ten Commandments, don't steal, don't commit adultery, Those are overlaps that, yeah, you're not supposed to do that. They're specific things. As you abide in Christ, you don't do this, because that's not who you are.

Here we go. Twelve, if our children will not obey and submit to parents, what will they not know how to do as they grow as believers? Should I ask my son? Well, we started a little bit last week when they were giving me grief, which I heard a little bit during the week. They think I rule with an iron fist. I'm putty. So, children obey their parents. Are parents always right?

No. We want them to learn to submit to God by submitting to parents. If they can't submit to parents, they'll have difficulties with what we just read in Romans 12. Therefore, I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. So if they can't submit to the parents, they're going to have a hard time submitting to God and submitting themselves to presenting their bodies as a living and holy sacrifice.

They have a problem submitting to any authority. I know I ask kids all the time, are you allowed to talk back to your parents like this? And they go, yes. I tell you, the most eye-opening thing, and I don't know if it's just the way the culture is moving, I think this is a pertinent one to today. It is getting harder and harder for kids to follow authorities. And I go through, when I was a sports nut, I was all state in all these sports, and I was just, yeah, sports. Sports was my thing. This was before I was a Christian. Before I believed.

But I never said anything against my coach. You can maybe attest to this. Maybe Calvin, you can say this. I don't know. I would never, if I said anything, I'd have my fanny kicked and I'd be doing laps until I dropped. And well, April, we have coaches in here. Now, I coach for 10 or 15 years. And I was amazed at the end.

I'd have kids just in my face telling me the biz. No way. Uh-uh. Fat chance. And I'm like, I wanted to kick their fanny and make them do laps. And they're like, no. Sit down. No. I'm going, are you kidding me? If I did that, one, my coach would have my fanny kicked all over. But if I went home and my coach told my parents that, I don't even want to think of what I'd be left at. But today, it's amazing.

The authority. You guys see that? At your level, do you see that, you two? I mean, Calvin, do they? Yeah. They talked about this at the final four, and there's two Christian coaches, one coached at Arizona, and one coached at Cleveland State, and they're both believers, and they talked about not necessarily thinking that the kids have changed, he thinks the parents have changed.

Kids still want discipline, they still want consistency, but he really alluded to the parents changing nowadays, and the fact that probably, you know, good values and teaching So the failure of that will consequently when they get older, there's no authority. No one will really lead them down the wrong path. So I think it's a lot of the parents. I agree. April, you have the same. On a high school level, as far as I'm coaching, it's more the parents that are the issue than the kids because they want, you know, they think their kid's attitude is the best. Yeah. So you hear more about that from the parents. And so it's kind of getting them under control to get their kid under control is the problem.

I went to a inner city clinic for young athletes and there's a coach at one of the high schools here who when an adult walks in the room his team stands up to show respect. What's interesting about this man is that he gave a talk about how the athletes should respect adults that has mostly minorities, and these kids were wonderful, and they did. I walked in the room and they stood up, I thought, and offered me a seat. And these were high school kids who play basketball. I was impressed.

You know, the point behind all this is, if they're getting to be where they can't, they have no authority, how are they going to present themselves as living sacrifices to God the Father? How can they function under an authority, either government, any of these things that he's established, government, parents, or to God, presenting themselves? How do you do that? If they're not learning how to do that, it's very difficult, I think, for them who don't have this, to go, OK, I'll now present myself to God. It's very difficult to do that.

The other principle that's in play here, and I think you're seeing it on a national level, if growing up you have not learned how to follow and take direction and be obedient, then you never learn how to lead. You don't know how to lead because you don't know how to follow. You certainly don't know how to lead.

I think there is a lot in today we're fighting and in the body today, kids who just don't want to submit to that authority. And I think it's really incumbent upon us to teach our children to do that and to show how authorities work. Go ahead. I think it's more than just the children not wanting to respect or respond to. I think that the culture today teaches children that they do not have to obey authority.

And it causes parents to be afraid of their children. Because if I discipline my child or my grandchild in the grocery store, and threaten them with a spanking when we get home, or I grab them by the shoulder and I say, now listen to what I'm saying to you, it's going to turn me in and take the children away from me. You know, if you do it and you spank your child and they go to school and say, yeah, my dad spanked me or something, you know, oh, there's social services at your doorstep. So there's worldly structural things that are hindering parents. So I mean, it's not an off for parents. I mean, you can still have discipline, but you're competing in a world that is totally against it.

You know, the others. It's all those darn kids, you know? Okay. Wives, submit to your husbands. Uh-oh. Uh-huh. What about husbands? Love your wives as Christ loved the children. How you doing on that? You know? Are we submitting ourselves to authorities?

These are the things he set up. And we'll get into these authorities that he's carved out. What about the elders? Boy, I don't like what Mike taught last week. Oh, man. So it's not only kids and parents. There's lots of things he's set up. And we'll get into these more, these authorities. And again, Mike's talked about this. It sounds more legal, getting into the legal end and stuff. I don't have any questions next week, I'll do that one.

With the authorities, you don't want to make it legal, but God has carved out some of these authorities. He's carved out some of his authority and give it to human institutions. This is what we're reading about. He's established governments. He's established husbands and wives. He's established parents, children. There are things he's carved out, elders in a body of believers. He's put some authority on humans and that's tough. We go to, if it's Hitler, do you obey Hitler? Do you obey Obama? But unless they're contrary to scripture, you do. And that's very tough.

So when we get on kids about not obeying, the first thing I do is look in the mirror. How am I doing with that husband thing? I would add that when the Lord gives us commands about our behavior, those commands are under grace. designed for us to abide in grace. If we choose to disregard them, as a child I choose to disregard and not obey my parents.

There is a divine consequence for what I do. If I don't respond to the grace given to me, there is a consequence. And the consequence is my intimacy and my walk with the Lord and the rest that that brings. Well, whatever that turns out to be, the Lord promised to give us rest for our souls. And I think that if we are not compliant to the principles and the grace of God, then there's not going to be rest.

Yeah. And the thing I want to say, consequences, and we'll get into that chastening like a child. He chastens us. He allows us mistake we can go do you know you want that you want that you want okay I'll let you have it and see how you how you do I think I'll do that to teach us but that in the end their consequences I mean if you you know I don't know adultery they're going to be consequences okay you made that choice and you lose a fellowship you have a lot of problems all those things The overriding thing, though, in the consequences that I want to stress is, it's in love. God does it in love. Not to beat you because you did something wrong, as a punishment, but it's to draw you back to him for the fellowship. And that's the thing that I struggle with sometimes. Sometimes I think God is just waiting to chasten me. He wants me to learn. He's got that stick ready to make me learn. He's not. He does it in love. And I keep thinking, what am I thinking about? He's out there waiting to make me learn. No, He's lovingly drawing me to Himself.

And there's nothing done that he doesn't do in love. So even in the chastening, it's not to... It's, no, come back, I miss the fellowship, I want you right here. And that's the thing, you think about it, there are consequences to our actions, but in God's economy, it's in love.

Again, that circle, it starts with him. Alright, quickly, so I can get through at least this lesson. Are we to obey them that have... Oh, this is the one that Mike put in, Mike and Roger. Are we to obey them that have authority over us in our church? Yes.

I'll quickly go through the Hebrews 13, 17. Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you. Again, I think that's important for us submitting under the eldership is do it so they do it with joy, not with grief. Oh, man. It's going to be tough here. I'm getting way behind, but we had a good discussion. We'll finish that last question quickly and then move on because I only have eight questions for Lesson 21. All right, let's close.

Heavenly Father, we thank you just for what we understand in grace. It is a motivating factor when we know the liberty that we have. It is not a set of do's and don'ts and laws. It's liberty, freedom that we have to function in grace. We thank you again that it's unmerited, unlimited blessings. We are motivated by that fact.

Father, we thank you that you have given us principles and we're not out here living our lives without any kind of guidelines to help us go through, but they're individual. And we thank you for that, that you do give us this liberty to function under grace.

And Father, we do realize that there are some authorities that you've carved out. We'll get in looking into those in the next few weeks. And we realize that those are put in place by you. And as they function within their circle of authority, we are to function under those. So, Father, give us wisdom and understanding as we delve into grace more and just life under grace. So, Father, we thank you for this time. In Jesus' name. Amen.