1-3 John - 1st John 3:4-6 Sin, Lawlessness and Christ"s Appearance
1 John 3:4-6 · Roger Henderson · May 22, 2011
1, 2 & 3 John, No. 21
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://www.hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/492623595129

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

Well, this morning we're going to continue on in chapter 3. This is the third lesson we've had in chapter 3. And this one's a very interesting one. There's going to be a series of verses in here. Actually, these series of verses that we're going to look at, some have used these verses and other verses to say that you can attain sinless perfection. So we'll see what you think. Still born perfect and getting better, right?

So actually, I think actually this one is pretty straightforward. Other ones are going to be a little more difficult. But this one, this morning, this series of verses is pretty straightforward. But it's still vitally important. So can I have someone read these verses 4 through 6? You can read them from the overhead. And you get extra points, you know, if you read. Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins. No one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

OK, thank you. So you see that the word sin or sins plural appears in every verse here. So we're going to talk a lot about that. Another key word in this that we're going to look at is practice. What is that all about? Lawlessness is another interesting word. And obviously, verse 6 is the one that gets people kind of excited sometimes.

Hopefully, we can explain that. I think that's a good explanation. All right, so we're going to kind of go through it, you know, word by word. Also, it helps, I found that, and I had the benefit, I taught this lesson before, so I could, it made it easier for me to prepare. Also, I could go back and look at what I thought before and said, hmm, and I kind of could look at it a little bit at a slower pace. And I really like to go through and look at the words and look at the subjects and the verbs and things like that. So hopefully that won't be too, too laborious.

Okay, so the first part of verse four is, Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness. So in Part A, the subject is actually this participial phrase, everyone who practices, that's the subject. The verb, so practice actually occurs in the subject as a noun and occurs as a verb. The verb is also practices.

It happens to be in the present tense. So that's saying when it's in the present tense, what they call the kind of action in the Greek is continual or ongoing action. So it says that this is not a onesie twosie kind of thing. It's a continual, it's a lifestyle. What we're going to see in this, I believe John here is going to show us two lifestyles are going to be presented here as we go through these verses.

Roger, is there another word for practices? I don't seem to like that word. Okay, actually there are other words. We're going to see that word just in the next chart. But there's another word that actually does or do conduct. There's several words. Actually the King James uses the word commit, practice or commit. But practice is a new American standard. Practice is not a bad word. Commit, commits, plural. is what the King James uses. You would say everyone who commits sins also commits lawlessness.

That's how it is. Tom? What I found was easiest to connect here is think of the title to physicians. General practice or practicing the physician. It's an ongoing thing. Right. And that's the key thing here. And we're going to see it. The idea that this is something that's not an occasional thing. This is a lifestyle. And this is not a good lifestyle. This is something we don't want to be there. And the question is, are we there even? That's even another question.

So the direct object here, subject-verb-direct object, and the direct object receives the action or shows the action, is lawlessness. So basically it says everyone, that's a group of people, everyone practicing sin also practices lawlessness. So let's look at subject again. And actually what's interesting here is that this is a group of people, and it's a little word in the Greek, P-A-S, pas, or pass. It's all everyone, the whole, it's in that group there's none excluded. So this is everyone in this group is practicing sin. practice. This is what Winnie asked about.

Poieo, P-O-I-E-O in the Greek, spoke of a course of action, conduct, to do, does. Commit is a word. I didn't actually put that down. Commit in the and the King James is used. So here's a word that uses, and this is actually the American Standard. The American Standard is interesting.

Sometimes it makes choices in how you translate. We'll use, you know, this word is translated other than practice or practices. So Jesus said, Jesus answered, truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin. Okay, so I have some other, I just have others. So let's look at some of these other verses here. Could I get someone to read, let's look at John, the Gospel of John. What's good about the Gospel of John here is that it's the same author as 1 John, so we can, many times it's very helpful to look at what the Gospel says as well. John chapter 3, verses 20 and 21.

Could someone volunteer to read that? evil hates the light and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed but whoever lives by the truth comes into the light so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God. Okay great so actually we have there's this word poieo there's actually another word very close to this called proso and actually we have these two words which are both the idea of ongoing action in verse 20 We have for everyone who does, this is the word that's close to our practice word, everyone who does evil hates the light and does not come into the light lest his deeds should be exposed. And then you have the flip side of that, and mine has, but he who practices the truth comes to the light and that his deeds may be manifest as having been wrought in God.

So, I think even in the Gospel here, you see this, John sets up this thing. We have the group of people that hate the light, and the group of people that love the light. And one doesn't want the light, the other comes to the light. 1 John has all those verses about walking the light as he is in the light. So very much in line with John's teaching about very distinct light and darkness, practicing sin, practicing righteousness. John is very black and white. He reduces the discussion to, are you in this group or are you in that group?

And it looks like also we're going to see that he wants you to remember we went through in chapter 2 about the Antichrist. There's the Antichrist. And then there's many antichrists. So apparently in his day there were many antichrists. And it seems like he was trying to point out to the believers that we can tell where these people are at. They're either practicing righteousness or they're practicing sin. And they can't be in between. And that's what we kind of see as we go through these verses here.

This is not to deny that a Christian can sin, is it? No, not at all. Not at all. This is not. And I think sins are something you can do about that, isn't it? Right. And back to your... I hate to say that... The first part of Chapter 1. Yes. And I agree with that. Amen. When we do sin, what do we do? We confess our sin. We agree with God about our sins.

And that's what a Christian does. But it seems like the struggle here in some of these verses is that Are we going to take a believer and put him in this camp over here and say he's practicing sin in the way that John presents it? Not to say that for a season a believer can't practice sin, and he does practice sin, but is that his nature? The nature of unbeliever is whether he thinks he's doing right or wrong, he's practicing sin. Hopefully that's going to be helpful. Pat, go ahead.

I just wanted to point out, in my version it says, he who does the truth. Does the truth? I think the reference in practice is the truth. Yeah, actually, yeah. And that's the same. See, that's one of the others. It can be to do or to does. So does is an acceptable word for practice. Yeah, I guess different versions. Different versions. the translators make decisions.

But what's good is, what I find, if I have a definition of a word and it has the possible words that would be translated as, that really helps me because I can then look at what they did and say, I have a chance to agree or disagree. I mean, if I don't see what's behind the Greek word, then I say, well, OK, what's that word? It allows us, and I think the Lord wants us. He wants us to look at scripture and, you know, Reason with him and let me try to understand it. So this is to me This is just excited to be able to look at say, oh some say does something it doesn't confuse me normally Hopefully it helps me.

I can't say it Okay. All right All right, so let's see here Did someone let's go to chapter? Chapter 5 here chapter 5 and John 5 let's read 28 and 29 in chapter 5 horrible not at this for the hour is coming They that have done good unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation. Okay. Okay. Now, and 29 is the one I'm looking at, and it's the last part of 29, and mine has the word committed.

Those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment. So, what group of people would you say that last part of 29, and Tom Head does, I think, what group of people is that describing? What would you say? Are those believers? Well I'm trying to lay a groundwork here. I'm trying to build a case here that John's going to describe groups of people and the challenge here is that you say well wait a minute that could be a believer and obviously a believer can can, I believe, for a season practice sin. But is that who he is? That's not who he is. And that's why I'm trying to build my case. I believe it's a biblical case. Go ahead. I don't know if this is appropriate to ask.

Who does the sinning? Is it the new creation or is it the old? Well, I think that's an excellent question. I mean, the new creation in Christ is from God, right? And actually, we're going to find out later on, He who abides in Him cannot sin, right? So I think it has to be the old man, the sinful nature. Why do we water it down with practice? I mean, the one sinning is the old man. Right, and I agree. And we allow him to do that. And we do. But the elder does not have that capacity. He does not have that capacity. He just doesn't.

Right. So the question, he starts off in this verse and he describes what sin is and it's a practice, it's a lifestyle, it's a continual action. So the question is he's talking about Believers or unbelievers here? A believer needs to look, maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't a believer need to look at this as being when he sins? That's not who he is.

That's agreeing with God. I like that. I like that very much. So that's good. That's the confession. Okay. And I agree. But I think what we're going to see here is that it will be helpful to see, try to look maybe below and say, well, what is he, what question is he trying to answer or what warning is he trying to put forth? And obviously, in the first part, in chapter one, he talked about confessing our sins, agreeing with God that we can sin. Anyone who says he cannot sin is a liar. So he kind of set that stage. Now, I think he's addressing a different question here. And you have to kind of hang with me until we get to the end here. But I think that's where we're headed.

Well, I think that King James, which says sin is the transcription of the law. And actually, we're going to get to lawlessness here in a second. What is lawlessness? OK, let's go on. OK, now the direct object of that is lawlessness. And lawlessness is basically an interesting word. It's the negative of law. It's used in a way which indicates the meaning as being lawless or wickedness. The King James use iniquity or in righteousness.

So here we go, here's another verse in scripture that's going to set up this tension between two lifestyles. Do not be bound together with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light and darkness? So this verse I kind of like because I'm trying to build my case again that we have the group of those who are righteous, not because of the Lord Jesus Christ. And we have those who are lawless because they're still an atom. And then he says, what fellowship has light with darkness? And then there's some other verses.

Let's look at Romans 6.19.

Can someone read Romans 6.19? I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

So, what would you say here? Who is he talking to here? in verse 19? Converts? Okay, you're heading where I want to go. So, what is he telling to these converts? He told them something... I don't want to give the answer, I doubt that I say this. He talks about where they were and where they are, right? Changing their lives. Right. Well, actually, I'll just go ahead here.

Basically, it seems to me he's saying, at one point in your life, for just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so that's kind of where you came from. So now, So now present as slaves to righteousness resulted in sanctification. So he's saying you were lawless by your very nature, now you're righteous because of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's where you're focused, that's where you are. So it seems like he's describing the condition before they were believer and the condition after they were believer.

That's what I think from that verse. Yeah, go ahead. Isn't that an admonition out of 2 Corinthians be not unequally yoked with unbelievers. When that comes in, is that written to Christians or just everybody in general? Well, it's right here. It's our verse right here.

Well, okay, that's a good question. What do you think, guys? I loved Hal. What do you guys think? Well, he must be talking to believers because Amen. No, I think it's believers. I think it is. Right. And he says, well, and then the or part of that, can a person who's in the light has the Lord Jesus as his life?

Can he possibly have any fellowship with a person who does not have that? He cannot. And that's just the way it is. You know, we have the Lord living inside of us. We can't have fellowship with one who does not. Now you may have fellowship in an earthly sense, but not fellowship in a heavenly sense. Roger? Yes, go ahead.

I find that when I'm with unbelievers, and I have a lot of unbelieving friends, who I enjoy very much. And we get along great, and we enjoy talking about a lot of things, but when it comes right down to it, the deep things of my heart are not shared with that person. They can't go there with me. And I think if we're thinking in terms of like getting married or establishing a really tight friendship with another person, who's not a believer, then eventually we reach the point where we can't go anywhere else together. We have to remain at some sort of surface level. And I think that both are going to recognize that they're not fulfilled by that, but particularly the believer will recognize that. Maybe the other one wouldn't sense it as much, but I think we shortchange ourself if we want a relationship so badly that we don't consider that we can go only so far and that we'll get tired and long to go further if we could.

Yeah, and you can't really, you know, it's neat when you, like at my work, I have several believers and it's neat when I can be with them, I can just, you know, I don't have to be kind of on my guard. I mean, that's not the right word, but, and there's no tension. You just say, and we may not necessarily agree on everything doctrinally, but at least we, at least we're believers and we can, we can talk and share things. And that's, that's really neat. And I agree with you.

That's, that's only so far you can go. And it's, and it's sad. What's something you'd like to go, you'd like to have them inquire, be inquisitive. But you maybe have been on that path so many times you know they're not going to, they don't want to go there. And you kind of, you know, it hurts. They really don't want that. I think to some degree you kind of hide yourself a little bit with unbelievers. You just cannot be totally yourself. That's sad. Yeah, it is sad. I've been around people that they don't even want to hear the word prayer. Prayer, God, Jesus, just upsets them.

Roger, I think that the Scripture that we keep harping on all the time is admonishing Christians that there is such a thing as Christian discipline. We are disciplined if we don't do these things. And we know that. And that God has given us a permission to forgive that if we have at least come on and admit it. But it is a disciplinary admonition to Christians.

Right. And that's certainly like when we cover that in chapter one, it certainly is in view there in chapter one. But I'm trying to make the case this is not as in view here. That's my contention. Go ahead. I'm thinking of that the other alternative where you almost pretend it's not quite true, even though you're a believer, 100% believer, like a lot. And then you end up vexing your spirit night and day over this. really remain unsettled until God has to make the next move. Alright, so now the B part. We're really moving right along here.

Okay, so we did everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness. Now the second part, this is kind of cool, and Scripture does this. It's going to give us a definition. It's going to define sin. Now that word sin has a definition too, but In this context, it's going to define sin as lawlessness. So this is pretty easy. For subject-verb, this is good stuff. It's easy. Amy, this is one of our favorite words here.

The state in which someone or something continuously exists. So sin is going to continually exist as lawlessness. In this case, it's a thing called a subject complement. which in this case is a noun, so it identifies the subject. So it identifies sin as lawlessness. The definition for sin is harmetia, to miss the mark. So from verse 4b, the definition, and then actually here's some examples, and we're not going to have time to go through them, I didn't really plan to, Maybe you recognize that the one in Genesis is when Eve was tempted and God gave her his desire, God's desire, and she said, well, this looks pretty good.

And the other two are basically the fall of Lucifer or Satan. So those are examples of lawlessness. There probably are many, many more, but those are just ones. If you look at those in your... So I like this definition by Schaeffer. And he's using this from, it seems like from 1 John 3, 4.

Sin is, in its essential character, a lawless departure from God's purpose and will, and the will of God. Its sin is lawlessness against God and all that His holy character demands. So I thought that was really, really good. There is no propitiation. What's that?

Okay. So let's move on. Verse 5. Yes, go ahead. I'll go back. Okay. Can you go back farther? Okay. Yeah, just, uh, you got the whole thing there. Oh, there's the whole verse. Okay. Everyone who practices sin also practice love. If you do this, you also do this. Well, and actually that's why, let's go way back here, that's why I wanted to do this right here. Because, actually maybe even, did I do it?

Yeah, okay. So here's the verse kind of diagrammed, if you will. Subject, verb, direct object. So, if you look at it this way, the word also modifies practice. So it's, this helped me tremendously. In fact, that's why I do this. So I can understand. And I know also, it seems like, oh by the way, something else is going on.

Well the subject of that sentence or that clause is everyone who practices. That's a group of people. So you could say group A practices lawlessness. And it happens to be that group has the word practice in it. So I don't know if that's helpful or not. Those four words define the subject of that clause. That defines a group of people. And that's why I'm trying to build my case here this morning.

That's going to define a group of people. And the question is, who is that group of people? Is that anyone or everyone? Well, and it can be everyone, but I'm saying in this context, we're going to get on to verse 6. It's going to be crucial that we define who that group of people is. I think it's very crucial. So the person is identifying a group, and by the way, this characterizes the group.

Right. Exactly. Exactly. Thank you. That's excellent. So that's a group of people, and what they do is they continually practice lawlessness. And I'm going to say that's their nature. So when I start saying things like that, you say, well that... That really is an unbeliever. When it's their nature, and that's... And that's exactly why they are truly an unbeliever. And that's why I'm here. They don't even want to waive or even try to become reckless. And that's where I'm trying to hit here. It seems like you could just leave the word also out. Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness.

And that's why I have it, I put it in brackets, that's Roger. I mean, if you look at the, that's a Greek word there, I don't know what the word is, but it modifies the word practice. Was there an extra word in the Greek? There is an extra word there, I believe. I can show it to you after class, I have that.

It's almost like you can leave it out. Well, that's fine. The verb is... Alright, we better get going here, we're not going to get through all this stuff here, let's see here. Lawlessness. Okay, so this is really cool. And this is Christianity 101, right? You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, plural, right? So this is wonderful.

And actually, when Paul says, you know, he says, you know this, this is something that a believer would know. You know, Noah's Oida appeared, is this word, phaneroo? to make visible. The King James uses manifest, so if you were to read this in the King James, I believe it says, you know that he was manifested in order to take away sins. He appeared, okay, and this is, appeared is in the Aorist tense, which is a tense, it's a past point fact, it's a reality. He appeared in order to take away sins. So it's a wonderful truth that we see in scripture just over and over again. So I have just a couple of verses here. So what I found here is that his appearance, and also the word appearance also can be translated manifested, that appearance and sin, that combination of words goes together, at least in a couple cases here.

And it says in Hebrews 9.26, otherwise he would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world. This is kind of breaking into a thought here. But now once at consummation ages, he has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And then actually this first part will come up next week, 1 John 3.8, the one who practices, here's our word again, Sin is of the devil for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose to destroy the works of the devil So so we see that the Lord Jesus was manifest or appeared to take away sin It says here to destroy destroy the works of the devil And now we're going to see In our verse here, the third thing is to take away sin. Take away is aro, aro, to lift up, to carry up. And beautiful verse here, the next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. So Christ's appearance of being manifested was for this purpose.

This is not the only purpose, but this is the purpose that's focused in this verse right here in part A. And then I have in Colossians it says, having canceled out our certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us, he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to a cross. So all these wonderful words, put away, destroyed, take away, taken out of the way, describing what he did with our sins.

Roger Howe's once for all on Hebrews. That's good. That's good. Once for all. So, you know, he didn't have to do it twice. Right. That's wonderful. Right. J. Vernon McGee so aptly put it. All means all. That's all. All different.

So God doesn't see sin anymore because it's not there? Well, I'd be a little bit careful about that. Sin was atoned for or paid for by Christ, right? So God is satisfied about sin. Right? He's satisfied. So actually sin or sins is not the issue, right? Between man and God at the time. It's Christ. It's all settled. Christ settled that. So the issue is Christ. Who is Christ and what he's done. So that's the issue between God and man. Who is Christ?

Because God, Christ, in fact we have the verse in 1 John 2.1 He is a propitiation of satisfaction for our sins, and not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world. He has paid for the sins of the whole world. The question is, will I accept that? Will I accept that? Believers have accepted that truth. Unbelievers have not accepted that. So it's, who is Christ and what he's done, right? That's the issue that man has to... You have to really believe it.

Because if you keep coming back to that, your past, your past, your past, then you haven't really accepted the fact that Jesus has forgiven you for your sin. If you confessed your sin, and if you believe that he died on the cross for our sins, then it is taken away. We have to believe that fully so that we can move forward and grow. Also, it's really important to realize that because we still have a sin nature, that those That may come before us again, but that doesn't affect our salvation. Our salvation is if we believe on Him, that is secure and done. So we have to recognize the source of that. And this is where we're going to see what's a believer to do.

He's to reckon upon the fact that he's dead to sin. separated from sin. So that's where God wants us to focus, to count upon what he's done. Not back there and stirring up all these things I've done in the past. That's an endless and unfruitful occupation.

Roger, can a Christian be chastised? Well, Scripture says he can be. Can the Lord chastise you? Scripture says he can. The ones that are blindly opposing the Lord have nothing to do but don't believe them, don't pay no attention. Those are the unbelievers. A believer can be chastised, and that's why God put that in there, to let him know he can confess it and that you don't have to be a burden he carries.

Right. But also the wonderful truth about counting that we're dead to sin. You have that truth, but there's another truth that I want you to entertain too. Okay? But just, you know, the truth about counting our sin that we're dead to sin is such a freeing...

That says, don't go back there. Don't stir that pot. Because just like Dom was saying, you can do that. It is so easy to go back there and say, I did that. And it just constantly gnaws at you. The Lord says, don't go there. Look to me. Trust in me. You're reckoning yourself dead to sin, but alive to God.

That's the other part of that. So you're counting upon what he's done. Okay, we're kind of getting off the track here. To make it quick, to separate our sins from us as far as east from the west, deepest sea, don't go fishing, don't go looking around the ends of the compass. Okay. All right. Okay. We'll carry on here.

And now he's going to say, but he says, you know, that he appeared in order to take away sins. And I'm going to rearrange part B and in him, there is no sin. And here's that. Here's what, this is what makes this so exercise so worthwhile to me, at least I want to rearrange it so I can understand it better. So I think it's better. And there is not sin in him. To me that's more understandable.

Maybe that's not in math to everyone. So the verb here is is again, or is not, and it's the state in which something continuously exists. And it's present, so it's ongoing continuously. So Wiest has rendered this, and sin in him does not exist. Boy, that speaks to me. We have a sinless Savior. Sin does not exist in Him.

And actually, if you look in 2 Corinthians 5.21, who can quote that from memory? And He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become righteousness of God in Him. So anyway, this verse says, He appeared in order to take away sins, plural, In him sin does not exist Okay, so now we're going to move to that piece of information we have verse verse previous verse 4 was about practicing sin and now we talk about He appeared in order to take away sins, and there's no sin in him so verse 6 is going to be the tension Okay, so here we go No one who abides in him sins. No one who sins has seen him or knows him. So I'm going to rearrange again. I'm always in the rearranging business, right? Anyway, everyone abiding in him is not sinning. So this makes a statement. So I took the verse, I said, no one who abides in him sins.

So how is that possible? Before we go any further, how is that possible? I just asked the question. What's the mechanism for that to be true? He says it's true. Everyone... Well, let's even go a step back even a step further. What's abiding? The Holy Spirit. Okay. Make your home. It literally means to be at home. to make your home, to be at home, abiding. Actually, think of the verse in John 15, verse 4, Christ said, talking to, abide in me, and I in you. So how can he say that? Everyone abiding in him is not sinning. How is that true? Only the new creation can abide in him.

And that's who we really are. Abiding is faith, basically. It's the operation of faith. Before I answer that, the subject here again is a group of people again. We have another group of people. Everyone abiding in him. Who are those people? Okay, good. So that's a group of people, and they're abiding in Him. And basically, once again, it's this all-encompassing Word. Everyone in that group that's, okay, is not sinning.

Okay, is this talking about, and if you don't, position or condition. Position is something that's true of us. Once we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, that's who we are. Condition is our daily walk. So, which one is he talking about here? Position or condition? Position. Okay, alright. Any other choices? Another way to look at that is saying abiding is, we can stop abiding in him and go our own way. Or we can abide in him. So you're not abiding in Him when you sin. You're still a believer, but you're not abiding in Him.

I like that. How about the word volition? That's what gets you in trouble. What was that? Volition. Desiring to do something with volition. You willingly contribute to it. Volition. Volunteer to it. The way he defined condition was our daily walk. And in our daily walk, we sometimes mess up. Okay, good. Excellent. Hold that thought. Excellent.

But you would agree that in our position, Christ is in us and we are in Him, right? That's the truth We have a new nature. He's given us a new nature. We have Christ's very nature. And that's why, that's the answer I was looking for. The reason everyone abiding in Him is not sinning is because we have His very nature and we are in that point in time.

Actually, I'm going to say a condition here. You don't want to agree with me. This is a statement about two groups of people and where they're at. Everyone abiding in Him is not sinning. I believe that's the condition. Even though it's true that a believer has the Lord Jesus, he can walk contrary to that. He can not be in fellowship. That's another way to look at it. He can be out of fellowship.

So he's basically saying that everyone abiding, that's a group of people, is not sinning because if he's abiding in Christ, he's walking in Christ's life and Christ cannot sin. So he will not sin. But we're taking the position that we believe in Christ and that we are going to follow Him.

Oh yeah, that's why I said, who are these people? They're the believers. So that's why I say position, but we are not, it doesn't mean that we won't sin. No, no, and actually that's why some people have taken this to be this verse, this is one of the verses for sinless perfection. They say, well I can get to that state. I can, in my walk, I can get to that state where I will 24-7 be abiding.

And I'm going to say that scripture teaches that God's desire is for us to abide in Him. But we do not do that all the time. It has to be our goal. That is his desire and the Spirit of God is showing us Christ and he wants us to abide in him. And when we abide in him, there's no sin. And I put it on this verse here. So let's just go on.

So let's look at the other group of people. Part B. Subject, everyone sinning, so I'm going to rearrange this one here. Everyone sinning, that's another group of people, has not seen him or has not known him. And this happens to be in what's called the perfect tense. Let me just go ahead here. So the perfect tense, and I kind of have it written out here, has not seen him in the past, and continues not to see him now, has not known him in the past, and continues not to, I lost a word here, know him now. So basically, this is describing a group of people, everyone is sinning, and they have these characteristics. They have not seen him in the past, and they don't see him now. They didn't know him in the past, and they don't know him now. Who is that group of people? Non-believers. What's that? Non-believers.

Right, okay, good. All right. Let's keep going here. Actually, that was the other part of my... Okay. I define these two words. John uses these a lot to see the Lord Jesus, to know him. Here's the bottom line as I see it here. There are two groups of people. Everyone constantly abiding in Him. That's group A and group B. Everyone constantly sinning. It's important to define who those groups are. I think that's what's being said here. It's not addressing the issue that believers may not be abiding at some point. It's defining those two groups and telling the characteristics of those two groups. Everyone constantly abiding in him does not sin. Everyone constantly sinning from other verses is lawless. So that describes the two groups of people. And I think, to my mind, that helps tremendously with verse 6, because otherwise you can come up with all kinds of interesting, you know... So any additional questions? This is supposed to clarify. I didn't quite follow all your logic.

It seems like it says, if somebody has seen him, knowing who's sinned. Negatives seem like they're hard to follow, because they're not put in a positive term. But it says, if you sin, then it sounds like it's saying you haven't seen him and you don't know him, if you sin.

Well, it actually says, and we can go back. Okay. No one who sins has seen him or known him. Well, it's just no one who sins. That's where I get the negative. Actually, so what I did, there's another translation. I think this is a better translation. Okay. So substitute everyone sinning. Okay. Everyone sinning. Let's take this explanation right here.

Everyone sinning has not seen him or, there's the or, or known him. And these two verb tenses are the ones that say, didn't know him in the past, and you still don't know him. So when it says that, that excludes believers. Because a believer may have known him in the past, but may be out of fellowship now. So this excludes, that verb tense excludes believers.

So is it kind of a warning? Well, I think it is. I think it's sort of In chapter 2 we had the false Christ, and I think it's just kind of saying this is what the unbeliever looks like. This is what that group of people look like. They're the ones, the people that are sinning, and they don't know him or ever have known him, and the group that know him and are abiding in him, and they can walk in fellowship and they won't sin. He just defines the two groups, it seems to me.

And we're going to see more of this. This is not going to stop. He's going to make some even more difficult statements. So this one, actually, I found to be pretty explainable because of the verb tense, especially the perfect tense here. Because when you define this group of people, everyone's sinning. That's a group of people. And they haven't seen him or known him. That takes the believer out of the picture. So that says he's talking about that group of people. And he's defining their lifestyle. And he contrasts that with the group of people that are abiding.

Now it doesn't say, he doesn't address the point about they may not abide all the time. He doesn't address that. But he says, you know if they're abiding, they will not sin. And that's a wonderful, those two pieces of information, who this group of people are, and that I can abide in him and not sin is wonderful information. And it's consistent with the rest of the scripture. Roger? Yeah?

But this verse says anyone who sins, has not seen him, has not known him. If you just take that little phrase, you've lost your salvation, you're not saved. So it helps me to think a little differently. Instead of saying groups of people, what is the nature behind sin? It is the old nature. He has not seen Him. He has not known Him. He doesn't want to see Him. He doesn't want to know Him. And we still have that nature. And it is from that nature that we sin.

Now, the bottom line is, it's not a group of people in my thinking. I'm contradicting you, I know, and I'm sorry. I really have a problem saying this is a that he's talking here. Okay. And we need to recognize for fellowship, you know, when we associate with our old nature and take who we are as an entity, and allow that old nature to dominate us, or yielding our members to it, it results in lawlessness. Alright, absolutely.

Down that road, if you want to use your word, with people who can't do anything but that. In contrast for fellowship, what John and the whole book here is teaching us is that we might have fellowship with him and therefore we don't abide in our own nature in who we were, we abide in Christ in who we are now. We agree with God about him for fellowship. of these verses is that he's talking about the source of sin and the source of righteousness. The devil and God.

Okay, well that's a different view than I took. I know. All I can say is that I saw it, starting back, I made my case. I got you. I think a lot of this translation is done where basically as the Bible says, talking about two men, Adam and Christ. And this is the problems you run into when you say anyone. You're basically saying even non-Christians. Adam does one thing, he sins. There is no sprinkling of the righteousness anywhere. And I just think you need to read these verses keeping in mind that you're in Adam. The trouble with that one man is the fact that it sounds like an easy fire escape from trouble with God. isn't delivered because we're trying to get out of something.

That's all I put into it at all. I know as Christians we should run the lamp and walk the lamp and stay with it. But as Christians we see. Absolutely. But what's interesting is here he points out in the A part of the verse, no one who abides in him sins. That is a tremendous statement. So for those times we abide walking with him and fellowship with him, we're not sinning. That's a wonderful statement.

And what Roy's point was, is the second part of that verse. So the first part you would agree that's talking about the believer. We're in agreement there, right? Let's talk about the believer, the first part of the verse, right? No one who abides in him sins, right?

And that means that Christ's life is being lived out. Right, exactly. So your point would be that you're saying that... It's not that I don't sin, it's that Christ never sinned. Right, and I'm in him. And he established that by the previous verse. He said sin cannot exist in Christ. It's an impossibility. And then he comes back with this verse and he says, No one who abides in the one who does not sin sins, which is just fabulous. Okay, so then the B part of the verse, no one, so you're taking that no one or everyone sinning, your contention is that's our own nature.

That's right. Okay, all right, that's a thought. Okay, fine. That's the way I look at it. Anything else confuses me, I'm sorry. Well, actually, this, I don't know, to me, because of the previous ones, he defined lawlessness and he used the same phraseology. So you would say back way up there on lawlessness, he's talking about the Well, ultimately, you're right. The sin nature is the source of sin. So the question is, when he uses everyone sinning, is that referring to the believer, the sin nature within the believer?

The Adamic man. Well, ultimately, it's the Adamic man, regardless whether believer or unbeliever. So the question, what's the thought? I appreciate your thought. All right. Okay, let's close. We thank you, Father. We thank you for this time, Lord. We thank you for the blessings we have. Thank you for our time this day. In Christ's name, Amen.