Great Doctrines of Salvation
Courtney Hemenway · May 23, 2010
Great Doctrines of Salvation, No. 21
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://www.hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/492624252543

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

We have election. All right. And the first thing I wanted to do was, let's see, before you read election, if you hopefully you read his section on this, Marchbanks, and we're going over Marchbanks, great doctrines relating to salvation. This is lesson 12 on election.

So before you did that, I want to get a sense of what everybody thought election was. Before you read it and then maybe after. Anybody have a thought? You've got to have a thought on what election is. Before. And if you haven't read it, what's your thought on election?

To vote somebody in. To vote somebody in. Interesting. Vote somebody in. We know who the political ones are now. Obviously I didn't read it. No, I wanted your pre, pre. Thoughts on election. You've got to have some thoughts on election. Those that were pre-known or pre-appointed by God. Is that really what you did? Or are you just poking the animal here? You've got to have some thoughts on election.

Believers are the elect. Believers are the elect. That one's good. I like that. Any other thoughts? Election. You guys are all chickens. I think what Bruce said is that election usually is associated with predetermination. The elect are, you know, you're elect, you're elect, and all of us believers in here, we're the elect. We were voted for ahead of time. It was pre-approved. Something like that. That's the typical, I think, view out there. Is that election is, you are pre-selected to be a believer and in the body of Christ. And is that your thought today? Yes? No? No?

Because actually, when I first started reading March Banks, I was a little concerned because it was vastly different when he started out. I think it was vastly different than what I had, what I believe. And then he kind of graduated to, you know, after the first paragraph or two, kind of went to where I'm at. So I was kind of, when I first started reading, I thought, uh-oh, I'm going to have trouble with this lesson because it's vastly different than where I have election.

So, all right. Let's see, do you guys have some verses? Did you look up or see or know any verses on election? Does anybody have one that comes to mind that you think of with election? I don't know where it is other than the New Testament, but I feel it's past the gospel.

You know, and it's funny, if you look at, I use the New American Standard, and you do a scan on election, year empty. It usually doesn't come up as election. Romans 11 5, in the New American Standard, in the same way when there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. In the New King James, even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

So, in my PC study Bible, I did a quick scan of elections. Hey, wait a minute. There's nothing there. So then I flipped over to the New King James Version and did a scan, and you can pull up a lot. So your translation may not have election. If you're new American Standard, you won't see that.

You'll see it as choice a lot of times. And there are several different Greek words that we'll look into that show this election or choice. A couple other verses that come up, Romans 9-11. I'll do these in the King James, just so you can hear the word election. It's different, like I said, in the New American Standard. Romans 9-11, For the children, not yet being born, not having done any good or evil, that the purposes of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him who calls.

Also Romans 11.28, concerning the gospel there are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. So, let's kind of go over those first. Prior to any of the questions, I just want to see if you have anything on election.

So what does that sound like in those verses? Is that what Bruce said, that you're pre-selected, you're called beforehand? Well, the one about the father sounds Old Testament to me, like it's Jewish. Ah, interesting. Okay. To me, they're synonyms. Synonyms.

Yeah, you choose the person you want to be elected. Sounds like Ronique in the elections. God chooses people. He wants to be elected because no one can come to the Father unless He, I knew the word a while ago, draws them. So you think you were pre-selected? I think I knew that I would be responsive to Him. Because I was planned so long ago. He knows me. Always did know me. Before you were born. Long before. So he selected you before.

Carol's going to be the, you're selected. Monique, sorry, you're not. No, I'm not selected because I'm a Presbyterian. You know, I'm not automatically in. I think that's what they believe. You know, you wouldn't go to that church if you weren't selected. Let's not do they, let's do you. The amorphous they's I get. God insisted that we have choice. So when he planned us, he knew what kinds of choices we would make. He knew everything about us. So did he pre-select you? He said, Carol, you're the one. You're going to be a believer. You're going to be in my body, the body of Christ.

Maybe. There's a wishy-washy answer to that, maybe. It's kind of like sort of pregnant, never works. I think since he planned us in absolute detail, that would be part of the package. Because we would be people who would respond to him and love him and want to know about him. Actually, it's just the contrary. If you read in Romans, we are at total enmity to God, we would never do this. But that is not how he planned us.

So he didn't know about that? That we would fall, that Adam would fall? That was a mystery? Sure it did. He already knew about his son who would come. It would be the perfect sacrifice. What are you trying to tell us here? I'm just kidding. This is just the pre-quiz as to what you believe before we get into some of these things. I'm just trying to see where you're coming from. Straighten it out. The verse that has both terms in it is Romans 8. 829, I believe, is for whom he did foreknow. He also did predestinate. But what he's predestinated to is to be conformed to the image of the Son. Which one is that?

Post-salvation. Aha. Yeah. Aha. Which one is that, Romans what? Romans 829. I probably have that down there. Is this are you in the American standard? This is. Yeah. I'm going to pull it up on the American standard. Yes. I think some people get confused with that passage and the predestination part of it they think as salvation when it's predestined to be conformed to the image of the Son, which is only pertaining to Christians. We'll touch on that. What I was trying to look up was on the New American Standard. For those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of the Son so that he would be the firstborn among many brethren.

So it doesn't have the word election in there. It has the predetermined. So there are a lot of, you know, between the translations. This is a special meaning for new too. We'll get into that. Yes, we will get into that. I mean, it's not a general one.

Yeah, well, and he knows when you look in Psalms, when you look in, you know, before we was created, you know, before, was it 139? He knows us before we were born, we were fearfully and wonderfully made. He knows us before the foundation of the earth. He knew about creation, he knew about all that. all about us, he knew. If you don't, the omniscient part kind of goes down the tubes.

So those first verses that we looked at, Romans 11, 5, 9, 11, 11, 28, says a lot about concerning about the election, their beloved, even so the remnant according to the election of grace. So is that a choice or a selection of us? Is that what those verses are talking about? Somebody had it, and I can't remember who. Oh, I think Carol had it. Is that regarding us, those verses?

If you look at the context of those, those are all about the remnant, the Jews, a selected nation, corporate, this is all about, yeah, this is who the audience is. So that's all about Israel, the Jews, so they are selected, chosen people. The chosen people, the chosen land, the designated land. So that's not about us and individual salvation at all. So people start using, oh, but it says about the election, those are for the Jews.

All right, look at the, yes? Before you go on, That is exactly what so many people do, is they take a verse, pull it out of context, and point to it as an example of whatever point they want to prove. Oh, the Beatitude, or Sermon on the Mount. You know, that, oh boy, you know.

Blessed are, blessed are, blessed are, blessed are, blessed are. Is that us? How do you reconcile that with Ephesians? We've been blessed with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies. So when you take that out, and a lot of people do that, you know, what, blessed are the poor, you know, all the things. That is not us. That was to a Jewish audience. That was millennial. That was the millennial kingdom.

But people will take that out, well, you know, and they pull, they extract that out. You really have to know what audience they were talking to, the church or the Jews. Those are key factors in determining what, if the verse pertains to us or not. And that's why, like I said, a lot of these Romans verses, if you look, this is talking about Israel, the remnant, and their election as a chosen people.

People, not an individual, but corporate. We'll get down to that a little bit later with corporate versus individual. So, 1 Thessalonians 1, 4. And I have that, knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God. So, let me pull this one out. For some reason all my tabs disappeared on me. Alright, so, and I have it in the New American Standard. That was the New King James.

Knowing brethren, beloved by God, His choice of you. Okay? So, is that talking about salvation in us? His choice of us? Wait, say it again. Is that talking about salvation and His selecting us? His choice of us? Knowing brethren and beloved by God, His choice of you? Stunned in silence. No, He's probably still talking about the choice. No, not in this case. Read some more. Oh, I like this. Excellent, excellent. We'll start at verse 2. We give thanks to God, and I'm reading in the New American Standard.

We give thanks to God always for all of you, making mention of you in our prayers, constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. in the presence of our God and Father, and knowing, brethren, beloved by God, His choice of you. For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit. And with full conviction, just as you know, what kind of man we prove to be among you for your sake."

So is that individual salvation? That's a trick, is that the corporate? I think it's the church group. Church group. Any other thoughts? I'm just tricking you, that's all I do is trick. I had the same footnote she did, the corporate. This is really commanding the brothers and I think bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of love, That, I believe, is what He has chosen them to do. It's like we have works. God has given us works to do. Things to do. And what's that? I forget the verse. It just went out of my mind. Anyways, that we have appointed for us works, things that He wants us to accomplish. I think the minute we're done, we're out of here.

This is addressing the brethren at Thessalonica and their work. His choice of them doing the work in Thessalonica. Their work of faith, what does it say? Your work of faith and labor of love. It is a group. It's talking about your selection. It's like here at Holly Hills. Your work of spreading the gospel. Your choice of us being there. So it's more a corporate one. OK, so it is corporate. Yes, the footnote was right. Let me see here. All right, and then 2 Peter 1 10. And I have that in the New King James.

Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call in election sure. For if you do these things, you will never stumble. Ooh, what about that one? My computer crashed last week or a week ago and I had to reload everything and now I just found all my tabs that I had I have all my verses tabs so when I pulled it up now when I reinstalled my PC Study Bible for some reason it's not recalling all my tabs so I just found that out.

What is the address again? It is 2 Peter 1 10. Let me get to find that. 2 Peter 1 10. And in the New American Standard, it says, Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about his calling and choosing you. For as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble. For in this way, the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be abundantly supplied to you.

So, what about that one? Sounds pretty conditional. Conditional? There we go. So is that one, dealing with our election, that we've been pre-selected? No, it has to do with our walk, whether we read our Bibles or not, stuff like that. Because the more you know, the more you understand, the more huge it is. So it's got to be huge in order to be assured. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay, other thoughts? It's wonderful and certain, and the more you know, the more wonderful and certain it is. Well, what do you think? I'm trying to get what Carol said. It's huge and magnificent and that's what makes it.

I don't think that's a criteria of our assurance in salvation. Well, but there are people who are not assured of their salvation. If they read their Bibles, their New Testaments enough, their little pocket New Testaments, So in order to be saved, you have to have everything known. And be devoted to their refrigerator.

See, mine goes back to identification. I didn't know identification when I came to know the Lord. So, I mean, you obviously, you don't have to have the identification to know the Lord. But I think you're left in the nursery for a long time. 20 years, you know, for me, struggling, trying, you know, like I've said many times, I'm a type A-er. You know, I go out and slay the world. Give me something to do, give me a metric, I'm out there. You know, tell me how high and I'll jump. You know, build it, I'll build it.

20 years of that before figuring out that that's not it. Until you understand... the identification of what the old man is, and the Roman VI reckoned him dead, and that the new creature in Christ, you know, and what do we have to do now? There's nothing you have to do, and in grace, when you understand identification, then you understand grace, which is what the unlimited and unmerited blessings from God based on the finished work of Christ on the cross, nothing you do but say thank you. It's not going out and slaying the world. You operate from a position of rest, not of, I'm going to go out and attack the world. So, it's nothing that I do. It's all been done. And when you rest in His grace, then you get peace and spiritual understanding and all those different things.

So, any other thoughts on this? I think, again, if you read the previous verses from 7, it makes It's more of sin in the American standard. And in your brotherly kindness and in brotherly kindness, Christian love, these are qualities that yours are increasing. They render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. And it goes on, you know, if you practice these things, you're predestined to do these things if you are already a Christian. So I'm predestined to do all those things? I'm in a world of hurt. I think it has to do a lot with your walk.

Any others? Can I just ask a question? I don't understand make certain of your calling. So, what do you think that is? See, this is always the thing. If you come to me with a question, you have to come to me with an answer. Well, I don't know. Make certain of your calling. I mean... Yeah, I just don't even know. I don't have any idea. Okay. Any thought? Yeah, Katie.

Is it like, you know, you've got two believers. One... I mean, they're both believers. They're both going to heaven. But one is walking with the Lord and one's not. I mean, they're both... going to heaven, they're both elected, so to speak, but one of them you can tell by his life.

Like it's, you know, you can tell, okay, he loves the Lord. And this guy, you know. So, if I'm not acting as a believer, or like this, wonderful walk, you question, you worry about my salvation? No, no, not, I mean, not questioning salvation, just, it's just not evident, it's not obvious. That's true. And you look at that in James. James will say that, you know, faith without works, so. Isn't this Romans 6 on who we present ourselves to? We are presenting ourselves to Christ or Adam. You know, and that's the...

And again, you still have two natures. Some of the one-nature people, you really struggle with that. As Mike says, I think his term, when music starts, I start dancing. The way a lot of one-nature people do it is, oh, it's memory, it's this. It's awfully hard to say. I mean, I still sin. And it's awfully hard to say that if I'm a one-nature, how am I still sinning?

So, you have a choice basically to walk in the flesh or walk in the spirit. Okay, what I was looking at this is, you know this does say about a call and election. But look at the order, it's a call first and then the election. So this is, you're called, you're drawn to, and then where I look at it, it's called, you receive, then you're elect. Order is important in here. Called, and then I'm called, I'm drawn, and then you receive, then you are elect. You're what? Part of the body? Part of the church? Part of the bridegroom?

All those things, after you're called. That make sense? Wow. Well, if you called, you wouldn't... Oh, you on the tape, you ought to look at the faces of these guys. Yeah. Video. Yeah, we need video. Wow. Okay. Well, the whole thing strikes me as positional, ultimately.

God is willing that anybody be saved. Ooh, we're going to get to that one. So that's His desire. So it's not that I'm outside of His desire. to be saved. But the call or the election, the way I'm picking it up, the election happens in Him. That's why I'm saying it's positional. And that's the point of this one where I say you're called first. I'm not elected before I am saved. That's the key and that's why I brought this verse up. Called first then elected. The election this positional idea that exists already.

I am called to it. Depending on how I respond to that calling, if I accept that, then I become part of that election. Perfect. Yeah. And we'll get into that. And that's really, that's why I brought this one out again. Called first, then elected. It goes in that order. And that's why this, I like this one because it does.

It says make your call and then election. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure. Call first, then election. So you're called, you're drawn, you accept, then you're part of the elect, the chosen, chosen to be bride of Christ, the church, the body.

Okay, so it comes first. I said all the verses that have chosen predestination associated with the church or believer is always first because we've been identified or placed in Christ first. So you always have that placed in Christ and then it talks about predestination, election, all those things come after you're put into him. He did actually use March Banks, and we'll get down to that, where that analogy which I like about going through the doorway, and we'll get into that a little bit.

OK, now I've got you at least confused. Again, just one of the Greek word for election is eklogai, which means to choose, select, or election, choice, selection. So that's the actual Greek word for it. And there are nouns, verbs, a bunch of different things. We'll get into that a little bit as we get into here. Okay, let's go, finally, question one.

Why can't we simply explain election with the idea that God foreknew who would believe and chose those? Why can't we simply explain election? And this is where, this is the first, well, I shouldn't say that, you can look quickly, but the first paragraph of March Banks, and I thought, oh man, I don't know if I'm in this, I don't know if I agree with this. I think in the first paragraph, anyway. Oh, you know, and I didn't get back to Holly. The certainty. You know, I think, Holly, that's the faith with works.

You know, your walk and... I guess what I'm confused about that is make certain of your calling. And if the calling is from God, is it saying make certain that make certain that I really believe it, the calling, the... Yeah. No, I think it's more the faith without words that, you know, as you are, your walk will begin to mimic your position. The certainty as you walk in the spirit, I think you'll have, the certainty will be there. I'll have to look at the word certainty in that one. and see, but I think it's more that faith without works, you know, the James, that you will, in the previous verses which explain your walk, that if you're walking in that, the certainty of your calling will be evident. I think I'll look at that, but. All right. Okay. Back that one did, where are we here? Mark Speck says, in the first paragraph, why we can't simply explain election with the idea that God foreknew and who would believe and chose those. He says, we must be able to accept by faith that which we cannot fully understand.

That was not helpful. That's what I like to say when I read this, you know, and I was going through this study and I thought, wow, I'm in trouble. So he's saying, I don't know. It's one of those things that, yeah, you can't explain. And I thought, wait, but then he goes on, and he goes, you know, like I said, I was reading, I thought, I am in for a world of hurt when I do this lesson, because I'm going to go contrary to everything that he says. He then goes back and explains a lot of things.

So... Some things will always be a mystery, though, don't they? Oh, yeah. I mean, our brain isn't smart enough to get it. Yeah, I think there are some things that, explain eternity. You know, I'm an engineer. Put bounds on this thing. You know, there's an integral, a limit from zero to infinity. You know, there are some things we won't understand, you know, before time. But yeah, I don't think that infinity starts with zero. No, there's infinity. Right. Right. I can't explain that. I can't understand that. There's no zero except where you're standing. Yeah. Maybe.

Well, and there's things like, Hal said the other, which, you know, time is compressed for God. It's all now. As we look at it, we think it's a million miles that way and a zillion miles that way. Hal said it's kind of like a black hole, you know, it's all compressed and God sees it all at one time. Past, future. You can't, you can't, I can't explain it.

That's made me wonder about, will you please find the appropriate job for the, or present the appropriate job for this person quickly. You know, I mean, how does he respond to that? Well, you know, he can. You know, the thing on those, on those, you know, see mine with the intimacy with God, you can ask me anything.

Please give Cee a job immediately when she goes out there. And Calvin now, I should say. We've now added to this equation. Get it quickly. I think you're perfectly right in asking that. The question is how you respond to the answer. The maybe, no, yes, maybe, maybe six months. And he doesn't really do quickly. He can.

No, you're going to, well, someone's Ruth or whatever, before, I call it the arrow prayer. She's in front of the king and answered right away. There are arrow prayers. I do that sometimes. Lord, now, please. Sometimes he answers yes right away, sometimes he doesn't. Well, it's like when people get awakened, you know, to pray for a certain person who's going to be killed otherwise. You know, God awakens them, they pray, He puts the wall of angels around him that only the opponent can see, you know, or whatever, and it's all instant.

Yeah, you know, actually on those Founding Fathers, it was kind of interesting, if you look at George Washington, I think it was in the French-Indian War, and they were talking about him, they put his best sharpshooters, the Indians and the French put the best sharpshooters on Washington.

And they all tried to kill him. The records are that he had bullet holes through his coat, his hat, everywhere, but they didn't touch him. And the Indian chief later said, when he met him 12 years later, he said, you're the one that will never die in battle. God protected him. I mean, he had bullet holes through his shirt, hat, coat, everything. And they had his best sharpshooters. didn't hit him. God's in control of all these things. The point being is that you can pray anything. That's the Abba Father, Daddy.

I go to him and ask him anything. I talk to him just like I'm talking to you because that's the intimacy that I have with God. He can tell me, yes, no, maybe, wait a thousand years, I don't know. But I have the peace knowing that I can have that freedom to go before him. So I can say quickly get a job for Calvin and see. I absolutely will say that. I pray that.

But he may not answer that. And I rest in the fact that he knows about it and he's in control of it. Yeah, he knows more about that thing than we do. You know, I could pray for, you know, I want a brand new F-150 tomorrow. That may not be the best thing for me. And he knows it.

I rest in that fact. What do you mean he sees everything at one time? I mean, does it all... Oh, don't even go there. I'm quoting Hal. It's like, you know, we see it as, okay, God looks in the future and sees, you know, all this, and he looks in the past, he knows all this. Well, we look at it as a linear function, going, I look out and he sees in the future. Well, Hal kind of put it as it's all compressed. He sees it all now. Future, I mean, it's like... It's all together. Time doesn't mean anything to him. That was Hal's. This is second person after talking with Hal. I think the best illustration is one that Vern used with the pen.

How God sees the beginning and the end of all time. But if you turn it... But either way, he sees it all in one spot. Yeah, sorry about that. That's one of those unexplainable things. We try and put a finite mind on an infinite system. And time, which is very small compared to eternity, You know, and God looks at things from an eternal perspective. And we don't so much. Oh, we can't. I can't.

Tell me about eternity and future. I mean, we'd never get uptight about anything if we had that viewpoint all the time. Well, you know, that's what, you know, the life and the struggles that we have here are. How do you put our life in perspective to eternity? You know. All right, some of the things, this is going to be tough. I'm on question one and it's ten minutes to go.

I think we cannot explain election with the idea that God foreknew who he would believe and choose them because that would not be consistent with scripture. Scripture shows that there is a combination of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. I think it's a combination of both of those.

I think in here. If you, yeah, if we looked at those original Romans passages in 9, 11, 9-11, 11-5, 11-28, they pertain to Israel. The Thessalonian ones we looked at, it's for their work, the Thessalonians, and then the first Peter verse, that one is about, like I said, the order. You're called first and then elected. So I think we'll get into the sovereignty and man's responsibility. In fact, Miles had a paper, if you look at Miles has a position paper, God's sovereignty and man's responsibility.

I looked at it and it was kind of almost started out the same as Mark's. We can't explain this stuff. But I think if you look, and I want to go back to one of your verses that you said, Steve, about, and we'll get into that. That's a very critical one about what's God's will, that no man should perish. Okay, we'll get into that. That's a key.

And when we think about election and how you deal with that one with the others that you select, select, predetermine, and that. Question two, what's wrong with the statement, God votes for you and the devil votes against you, and your own vote determines election? Devil doesn't have a vote. The devil doesn't have a vote. That's for sure. See, I thought you'd like this one, Monique. It was a voting one.

It sounds like we have a big part in our salvation. Well, man's responsibility. There is a responsibility, man. I believe that there is God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. We do have, and the only thing, it's a non-meritorious act of faith. That's it. I mean, this almost implies it's an effort of some sort. Yeah. According to Marx Bank, he states that this is a very superficial view of the biblical teaching of election.

For election is altogether the work of God and neither the devil nor man has anything to do with it. My question is, do you agree with this? That statement is basically a superficial view. For election is altogether the work of God and neither the devil nor man has anything to do with it.

Well, if we have freedom of choice, then we do. We are limited. Our choice is outside of Christ or which sin we are going to pick. Yeah, I mean, as a non-believer, yeah, the only thing we can choose is which sin we're going to do. But, God, I think, and then we'll get into this, that God orchestrates, brings us to a position where, you know, there's a question.

Do you believe or not? And what is the only question now that remains? Is it about sin? Do you walk in the Spirit or not? What's that? No, there's only one question left for every human on this earth. All believers, now this is for every human on the earth. What is the only question now? Do you believe? What? Do you believe in God? Christ? Christ.

The only thing is, who do you say Christ is? It's the only question. The gift is there. That's the only question left. Do you believe? Your sin is taken care of. It's paid for. It's in Christ. Do you believe? That's the only question left for every human being. Not about your sin nature, not about anything else. It's who you believe. Because, I mean, have all your sins been paid for? Everyone? The infamous guy across the street? I'll point that way again. I hate that. That guy's been used for so many... We'll go west. The person on the west. Yeah, their sins have been paid for. The only question now is who is Christ? Okay?

Well, I basically think scripture shows that there is a combination of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. Miles has a position paper on the very topic, and he says, The natural mind is not able to give due place to both sovereignty and responsibility, and hence all theological systems fail on one side or the other. But it is clear that scripture maintains both, and the spiritual mind is always in accord with scripture. So he kind of took the March Banks approach, where you can't explain it, but you see both the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man.

And if you can bear with me, I think I can do it before the second bell goes off here. When I was looking up the Greek word for election, Zodiatis had a lot of explanation in his description of the word election. And there's a big chunk in here, and if I can read it, be patient, listen to it, and it really explained it. And this was in his definition of the election.

He says, When we think of election as the right of an omnipotent God, we must not limit ourselves only to God's power, but look also at God's love and mercy. The author of election is also the author of all knowledge. He is not limited by the element of time. The concept and measurement of time is simply and merely for man's accommodation, man being finite in his comprehension. God does not need to wait until someone believes to write his name in the book of life. By virtue of God's omniscience, it is impossible for him to make a mistake and write someone's name in the Book of Life from the beginning of the world and then for him to find out that he has erred and that person is not saved.

Interesting. Book of Life, you know, he's put it in, so if there's choice... So he's kind of putting both sides of it. In the Book of Life, God can't put you in, then suddenly, oops, not in there. Can't make a mistake. If God can enter, He is no longer God.

God's disposition, and this is getting back to Steve, God's disposition and will is that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, 1 Timothy 2.4, and none be lost, 2 Peter 3.9. Okay, what Steve is saying, none be lost. God cannot go against his own declared will and willfully cancel his plan to save the human race by deliberately and capriciously assigning some to hell. Do you understand that? His will is that all come, no man should perish.

If you understand that and you say that it's election, preselection, What does that say about that, his desire that all come? That means if it's by pre-selection, I want Bruce and May, sorry you guys. How does that go against that statement that all should come? Does that mean he pre-assigned some to hell and that when he really said, it's my will that all should come, that none should perish?

Well, he wants that, but he gives us the choice. And that's the man's responsibility. That's where it comes. And that's why I say, that's a key verse. And that expresses his desires that all come. None should perish. So that's where the man, there's some part of man's responsibility there. And the only thing is non-meritorious act of faith. We, by faith, understand who Christ is in the death, burial, and resurrection. So I think that's a key verse in understanding that there is God's sovereignty and man's responsibility.

Because you have to negate that verse if you say it's pre-selection. As he said here, God cannot go against his own declared will and willfully cancel his plan to save the human race by deliberately and capriciously assigning some to hell. Because if it's a predetermined, how can he say, I want all to come? If he's predetermined, you're not going, you're going, it doesn't fit. Yeah, it's a contradiction. It's a contradiction.

So there are things that say, but in the book of life, and who's written in there, he knows, but when we step into Christ, we now have an eternal past. He's writing a book, we're eternally, now we're in Christ, okay. The book is written, we're done. And we'll get into a good explanation. He has it, if you haven't read Marx Bank, saying look in there about the door analogy. I really agree with that analogy. Let me just finish this last one.

Indeed, none could be saved without the effective calling of God and His election. And whenever any person is saved, it is because of the effective calling of God in Christ. No one can be saved on his own, generating his own faith and his own power, approaching God. Man, having fallen in Adam, cannot approach God. God had to approach man in Christ. Again, I thought that this was just in Zodiaty's description of election. I thought that was a really good synopsis of election.

So, all right, we got to close. Sorry. Heavenly Father, we thank you. Thank you for this time again. We thank you for your word and we just thank you just for what election means and we thank you how it is your sovereignty and our faith in the finished work of Christ and we just pray for clarity on this as we look into your word and we just thank you just that you have offered salvation to us and we we thank you now and we just pray for the upcoming meeting with Vern just to clearly present the word and prepare hearts to receive it. Father we just do all these things in Jesus name. Amen.