Faith Lesson 18 Week 3
Courtney Hemenway · Nov 1, 2015
Faith, No. 42
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://www.hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/4926519421652

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

Alright, we are going to finish up. We are on Faith Lesson 18 and we went through I think a new record. We didn't even get through one question, I don't think, last week. But it was a great class, a great discussion. The issues we're going through now in the faith class are about Believers in trials and suffering and what that means and what its purposes are And I thought we you know a lot of good discussions last week We were in question six. I think and looked at first Thessalonians. We went through a lot of those things and Why we go through trials Because I want to get to one question, I never got to it, because of all that, at the end of all this.

Does God carry a big stick just to beat you up in trials? Yes. Okay, going back to question one. Does he carry a big stick just to beat you up? No. No. So then why do we go through trials? If we understand that he's sovereignly in control, why do we go through trials? Just for the fun of it?

To grow. To grow. Yeah. I'm tired of that. To grow, to be perfected, to what? What's the ultimate result or goal of that? Conform to the image of Christ. So we can manifest Him. So there is a purpose. So we went through a whole bunch of different things showing that, and again, a lot of it is the testing of your faith. In these trials, I'm amazed at how many verses come back to faith. I was reading one this morning, again, in 1 Peter, again, about faith. And everything is related to our faith, and I'm seeing more and more about that.

How all these challenges, everything comes back to faith, which is, he's taking it off now, Because everything of God, the truth of God, the veracity of God, the facts of God, it's all based, faith in its essence is based on Him. So, we learned about all that, we got down, so we saw about all the trials, how they're meant to make us grow, to make us perfect, ultimately to conform us.

So, the question I have is, why do we, and this is the question after all that discussion, I never got to it last week. Why do we choose to suffer through trials? And do we do that? Do we really have a choice? No, you have a choice. Listen to what I said on the question. The trial will come. That's what I mean. We don't have a choice. There is a trial. Right. But that's not the question. Why do you choose to suffer through that?

You think that, I guess when I think of a trial and I think of growth, I think of the word, you know, it talks about growing in the grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus. And I think a lot of, don't you think that a lot of the suffering is because of lack of knowledge?

Some of it? I think some. And maybe not knowing, but then there's also the matter of choice there too, you know. Warm, what I'm getting at. Other thoughts? I think sometimes the suffering can almost be an idol sometimes, where we kind of are enjoying the suffering to some degree, and enjoy kind of wallowing in it, and for me, rather than trusting God. We know people like that, that, you know, they, they, oh, sorry, so, oh, you know, look at me, I'm suffering, you know. So, one more quick discussion, because I think this is a key point in all of this trials discussion, trials and suffering. I just want to be clarified. I remember when I had surgery about three years ago, I was popping Vicodin when the doctor told me to.

And I mean, was that shit? Yeah. Suffering. That's a medical way out of suffering. But, you know, you know, that was the other thing. And I think Helen had it a few weeks ago is so in suffering, you know, and I when I mentioned it, does that mean I just sit back and go, Just hurt me. Does it mean in the midst of a trial?

I'm in a burning building. Remember that? I said that. If I'm in the midst of a burning building, do I just sit there? Lord, save me. I'm going to sit here in a burning building. Save me. I'm going to walk out in the middle of I-25. Lord, you said you're going to protect me, you love me, and I'm going to walk in the middle of I-25. What is it that he gives us? Wisdom, knowledge.

So when the doctor tells you to take the medicine, no, I'm going to suffer. I will not take the medicine. Is that what you mean? When we choose to suffer? My question? More thought. I think it's a key thing. Are you meaning suffering instead of something else? I'm trying to understand your question. Suffering instead of going to the Lord? and receiving from Him? Is that what you're talking about? Getting there. Okay.

I don't know what it is for anybody else, but I think a lot of times it's not really trusting God, faith. I mean, not because you're choosing something you think is better than what God has in mind for you, but also trusting His eternal purpose. I mean, Whatever's going on right now, there's a purpose for it. And whether it feels good or doesn't, you know, it's horrible.

Right, and I heard your question, and it's not. It's different than just receiving. It's by faith, trusting in the situation, not what you're receiving all the time. Okay, we're talking about the same thing, I'm just calling it something different. Well, now it's different. Well, in your mind it is. But that's what I meant.

Instead of going to the Lord and letting Him be Himself in us. It goes back to faith, though. That's the issue, is faith. Is that you trust Him that He'll do that. That's what I'm talking about. When you have faith received from Him, that's what... The underlying is what I'm getting at, is faith. Faith is the issue. Knowledge and faith. I think you hit it. You need to know first what He's promised us, what He's told us. But then it's faith. Do you believe it?

And that's really where I think a lot of the issues come in trials and suffering, is do we believe Him? that he's in control, that he's doing it for his purposes, which I think you were hitting on. Ultimately, it's to conform us to his image. And as you understand that in a trial, it's not the suffering as in somebody who doesn't have the faith that there is a God who's in control and he loves you. And that's where, I think for a believer, we know, and that's why I started out there, to carry a big stick just to beat us.

He doesn't. He does it for his own purposes, which is to conform us to the image. And again, where I go back to, he's in control and he loves us with a love that we can't be separated from. So in the midst of a trial, does he not love you in the midst of the trial?

Yeah. Of course he does. So again, the peace, the rest, and everything that he has promised us, and by faith, we believe that, the suffering is not as, as I was saying, my life was a roller coaster. Accolades, yeah! Accolades! And you ride the roller coaster. When you understand the faith in trials, that He's the one in control, He loves you and He's doing it for His purposes, to bring you to dependency upon Him, ultimately to manifest Christ in you.

And that means, when you go through trials, that is a whole different mindset. And even, I think that you know, Christ was compassionate. And even if anything, if you've probably never experienced pain or suffering, you wouldn't know what it was like for other people who were going through pain and suffering. Well, that was the verses that I gave in 2 Corinthians 1 last week at the end. You know, the other thing which I think in trials that we forget about a lot of times, many times we think it's all about me. What did those verses say?

And in 2 Corinthians 1, it said about the comfort with which you have, you show and share with the people who are going through that trial. He brought you through that trial so you could help that person. So he may be taking you through a trial just to help somebody else.

He's doing it back there. I'll try and get an order of the question. Mike is probably chomping at the bit, I'm sure. I just wanted to meet Mike, that's all. Last week we talked about hope and certainty. I think this is a really good question, so thanks for bringing it up.

I mentioned that we kind of removed the idea of hope and certainty away from the person. of Christ, and I was thinking about that word suffering as you were talking about it and looking at Romans 8.17, I think you guys might want to check that one out.

But there's a biblical perspective on suffering and when we think about being fellow heirs with Christ, which is what's the word we use here? Identification. We're talking about identification and suffering here. And he goes on to say, if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. So suffering has an identification perspective, and we oftentimes take that suffering and we make it about our sin nature suffering, as opposed to it being who we are in Christ. And if there is suffering in Christ, but it's for the purposes of glorification.

It's the purpose. What's the purpose? It's totally different. Totally different. And so when you go through this, if you, by faith, understand that, that's a whole different perspective in the suffering, in the trial. That's my point. We choose so many times not to believe that. And that's where I think, you know, he'll keep you in that suffering. He's teaching you. He's growing you. But I think in the midst of that, if you start, if you, the knowledge and faith, you know about what he told us, and then you believe it. Can I ask a question? No. Anybody can ask any question anytime.

When you were saying, why do we choose to suffer, I was trying to figure out an example of where I literally, okay, today I'm going to choose to suffer. I don't quite understand what it means for me to choose it. You go, woe is me, and it's all about me, and it's all, you know, don't, it's, it's, what is, I get to, at least in my own, and this is personal, is the peace and rest that I have knowing that in a trial, you know, half your, half your pension is disappearing. You can get wound up and, you have to make plans, again, the burning building, how do you get out? You have to make plans financially, but how do you approach that?

Am I, am I, wow, how did God miss that? How did he, oops, he said oops, he missed it. No, he knows that. Me personally, you know, there's, there's a lot of things. You know, it's, you know, in my business, you know, I was saying that I had, in October, all the stuff, it was like major, you know, how was I going to get all this work done?

Then the oil price went to nothing. all the work disappeared. Whoa! Do I panic? No, I don't. I have incredible peace knowing that he's in control of it. And as a kid, I can be a greeter at Walmart if he wants me to. I have the peace understanding that he's in control of it. And I rest.

Even though I have to come up, you know, how you do with work and this and that and finances, but the whole thing is the choice of how you understand the trial you're going through. If you know it's from His hand and you can't be separated from His love, you have a whole different perspective when you go through a trial. So I was wondering, would it be okay to say, why do we choose to trust God during our suffering? I don't know why we should. I mean, the purpose is to go through the trial to trust Him. And there's so many verses that talk about that. It's all based on our faith that we trust Him.

Can it be, I mean, can't you be going through a trial understanding that God has a purpose and trusting God, but you can still be suffering at the same time? Yeah, yeah, and you know what I... It doesn't negate that it can hurt and be a lot of work, you know, if you have to go back half time to do something, or you have to, yeah, It's the peace that you know he's still in control.

And I go to when, you know, he was in the garden. Christ was in the garden. He was sweating blood. But he also said what? For the joy set before me. So yeah, I mean, he was sweating blood. He was concerned because he knew he was going to take all the sins of the world, past, present and future, on him. But he said for the joy, because he knew what the outcome was going to be, which is this amazing part is us. That's the amazing part, he did it for us.

So, you know, yes, you still, you know, if I'm having my leg sawed off, you know, I'm not happy, I mean, I'm not like, yeah! I don't feel a thing. But I understand that if something happens to me, it's still in the Lord's control. There's an underlying peace and strength that you have when you understand this.

I mentioned Romans 8.17 and then verse 18 talks about it a little bit further. And he goes on, Paul goes on to say, I consider that the sufferings of this present time shall never hurt us. this present time, are not worthy to be compared to the glory that is to be revealed to us. So it's an issue of comparing, and the only way that you can compare that and make that decision is through faith. So yes, this hurts, but compared to what is coming in terms of revealed glory, has nothing Not on the circumstances.

Now I'm going to make another point you're not going to disagree with. I'm just not going to agree with. But I have to say this. This is my experience. We have a trial. Maybe it's an emotional trial. You're a man. Maybe you don't know about this. It's an emotional trial. Maybe you lose your best friend. I probably were emotional then. You have someone die that you love. Okay.

And now you're saying that God is going to use this trial in my life to comfort another person. But first, He comforts me, and that's what I'm talking about receiving. First, I receive comfort from Him, and I understand it, and it leads to intimacy with Him. And out of that, I comfort another person. Not just by having in my head an understanding of what faith is and how it works. It's an intimacy issue also between me and the Lord while I'm going through the suffering. That was my point that I wanted to make. Who gets comforted? Old man or new man? Who's suffering? Old man or new man? I don't understand that. I didn't say anything. I'm asking a question.

So the old man is suffering. So what Christ has to do is he has to get your focus on him. to get you out of the suffering and to receive the comfort from him that brings you out of the suffering. So that goes to intimacy. That's what I'm talking about. I know that you can't coddle the old man. I know that. But the old man is there and you have to focus on him.

But in that process, you know him more. You recognize him more, and the next time you have suffering, you're more likely to turn to him right away, because it's a process. You don't just say, oh, I'm suffering, I can't do this, I'm going to turn it off. Sometimes he has to work with you. Do you understand what I'm saying?

It's spiritual growth, but what I'm looking at is the underlying... You're going through the process. Underlying the process is faith. You can't have a process without the underlying faith. It is, but you stand there and talk to me about faith. I've been here before, and talk to me when I'm suffering, about faith, that is up here. I have to get to that process. It starts there. That's the point. But you go through the process and that's where the country... But what did you say? You just said you went from the process down to the... No, you start with the faith. I'm not disputing about the faith. I'm disputing about the idea that that's all there is. I didn't say that's all there is.

That's the basis of the foundation for it. Knowledge of what he says, of what he's told us. So you have knowledge, and then it comes to faith. Do you believe that? And then the process is beyond that. But a lot of teaching talks about the faith. We're not talking about other teaching. I'm telling you where people are coming from, Courtney.

This is how people think. you talk to them about the faith and it becomes something I have to do and now I'm having trouble doing it and they don't understand that there's a process that isn't just so I can say I did it or whatever else you guys were talking about before where you're just talking about the faith You can't leave me there. That's what I'm saying. Do you see what I'm saying? Do you guys see what I'm saying? That's the emotional reconciliation that I was talking about yesterday. Do you understand what I'm saying? No. I'm sorry. I don't mean that in an offensive way.

I'm just saying that I think that was the whole thing I was saying last week about how it's hard to find that, especially like if you're new to it, like I might be your somebody, like it's hard to find that difference between what you're Reconciling what am I experiencing emotionally that I'm manifesting in my own head and and is that making this more difficult? Am I creating more obstacles, right? It kind of goes in and eliminates some of those obstacles so like flesh does that but when you turn to Christ and you Realize that that is sin and that's keeping you separated from God, because that's what it is. But I think your own brain gets in the way of something that's very basic for everybody, right?

Yeah, I think we just have to, the process from the basis of it is the key. I don't dispute the growth and all that, that's spiritual growth, but it's based on faith, which is not of us, it's of Him. It's God's glory and the life of Christ being manifested through me. It isn't about me ultimately, it's about Him.

Whose hope? We've had this discussion on whose hope is it? Whose tried character is it? It's His. And so as long as we in our Christianized sin nature try to make it about me, we haven't gotten to the understanding whole process to share His glory with us. And His glory is Christ Himself, which is openly the manifestation of Him in us.

Okay. Can I like just flip, I like to flip the coin a little bit. So, alright, you say you were on a roller coaster up and down. I think also at the top there's potential for pride. Oh absolutely. Glory by me. Oh totally. I think there's not, I don't think God is necessarily going to give you comfort in that or peace. God's going to maybe. I'll tell you, and I translate this and I told this to Mike, you know in business, it's Nebuchadnezzar syndrome for me. You know, and that's the whole thing. I get a contract, I get some big thing. Yes! Yes, I'm all about it. And then I think, here is Nebuchadnezzar, out on the deck, going, look at all that I've done. What is the next thing he's doing? Eating grass. Eating grass.

I think that's a trial, and I think that suffering is a different sort of way, because you're... There is danger in blessings, as well as in the trials. Amen. Yeah. And that's a good point. Yeah, these are just, this is just as dangerous up here as it is down here. Yeah. Absolutely. And that's why I say this. A kid, the Nebuchadnezzar syndrome. You know, I go, I don't thank God that he has, you know, given me this. Because it's of him. He's allowed it. He's done it. You know, he's just used me as a vessel. And he's using me. And I think, again, it can go back to then having compassion with people who are up there and are right in that wave of pride and greed and whatever words you want to throw on it, but you see it, you know it, that that's what it is.

I call it the blessings trap. It's so good, and look at how good I am. As I said, Nebuchadnezzar is my best example. Get out on that patio and say, I am the great, look what I have done. It's not you, it's not about you. Which it comes back again to Mike, it's all about Christ and where we're going.

It reminded me of Galatians 2.20.

That's a verse I've been trying to really deeply understand for a long time. Who lives? The life. I now live. When I think of things like that, that's kind of what I mean. I'm crucified with Christ. It is no longer the I who live, but Christ lives in me. The one who's doing the living is Him. Again, when you go through a trial, Think about these things.

That's what I'm going through. That's why I say the basis comes back to faith. Do you believe that? Do you understand that? And that's the spiritual growth process. That's really the time it takes. We don't go from babe to daddy, mature overnight. It takes a while to get those so you understand them. That he works that into you. And that's just manifesting Christ. But it takes time. I don't say that this all comes overnight, that boom, you're done.

I'm just saying that when we choose this, as you begin to understand that you're in a trial, okay, he's in control. I understand that. I can deal with this. I choose to not look at my circumstances. I know you're in control. And it just allows you to go through it and understand it better. I want to read one section. No, go ahead.

And I was going to say too, I think what's tough maybe for women is we want to go through it for somebody else. You know, and guys too. I would not be gender specific. Okay, like your kids or whatever. It's like you don't like to see other people suffering, but sometimes that's part of their walk.

And I understand that. That's my point too. Your child is suffering. Right. You don't want it. worst nightmare. Right. But do you understand he's still in control of it? Right, exactly. That no matter what's going on, it hurts, I do everything that I can to do this, but even then I'm like, sometimes you're taken right out of the trial that God wants me in. Right.

But you have a peace, that's what I'm saying, when something happens like that, you have an understanding by faith that he's in control of it. And that's a whole different perspective than not knowing that. And it's like, oh, why is this happening? Why can't I? Panic. Because you don't understand he's in control. Okay, I don't fully, I don't understand this. But I understand you're in control. And you're allowing this for your purposes. And that gets you through these and understanding. And that's what I'm saying, that's why the whole premise of my question is, what do you choose in this? To abandon what he's told you, not by faith, believe what he's promised us. Right. Okay, I just want to go... Do we not have enough understanding that we cannot, it isn't proper to say to God, I don't understand what you're doing.

I do understand what he's doing, he's told me. Yeah, in the circumstances, I know what he's doing. His process may be confusing to me. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I may know why you're doing this, but I understand you're in control and the ultimate purpose is to conform you to Christ. I understand that. What's this process? But I have a peace through that and understanding that he's in control of it.

Because a lot of times we look at ourselves, what about somebody else suffering? It's awful. But it's norm. I pray for him to have strength and comfort in the circumstances. I pray for that. And you know what? He's responding. He has peace. He has all sorts of things that is demonstrating Christ. And what a witness that is to everybody else.

How annoying when he went through his... That was the funniest thing. The psychologist who went in to comfort him came out in tears. Because she couldn't believe how much peace he had. And she was in tears. Because she was doing it from a worldly perspective. She could not understand this. Okay, last thing. And then Eleanor. Don't forget Eleanor. Oh, Eleanor too. Yeah, exactly. She understands it.

Okay, I just want to go through things because of, you know, in the trial and all these different things. I always link, again, the sovereign part, which is Colossians. The Colossians 1 that I hold. You know, in him all things hold together. So he's in control of all things. The other is that we can't be separated from his love. If you understand those two things in the circumstance, at least for me, he's shown me that in those trials, I know he's in control and he loves me. I understand that and he's conforming me to Christ. A little bit further than what you were reading in Romans 8. Where is that in Colossians? 1.16 or 17 I think it is. Colossians. 1.16 or 17. In him all things hold together. So, Romans 8, and I'll read 28 through 39.

And we know that God causes what? All things to work together for good. Oh wait, that trial, that blessing? Oh, He uses all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his Son, so that he would be firstborn among many brethren. And these whom he predestined he also called, and these whom he called he also justified, and these whom he justified he also glorified." What shall we say then? What shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us some things?" All things. All things.

Who will bring charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies. Who is the one who condemns? Jesus is He who died. Yes, rather, He who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written, for your sake we are being put to death all day long. We are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.

But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. I love that.

That is the key. What did he miss in that list? Nothing. Nothing. So in the midst of the trials and the tribulations, he still loves us. Understand that. By faith, he's told us that. Believe it. Alright, moving on to the next question. Wow, we got one. We got one. Question 7.

In Romans 5.3, define the words tribulation, works, and patience. Okay, I'll read 5.1-4.

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we also have obtained our induction by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we exalt in the hope of the glory of God. Not only this, but we also exalt in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance and perseverance, proven character and proven character hope. So, let's look at the first word, tribulation. How do you find tribulation?

Affliction. Affliction. Okay, others? A challenge to faith. Challenge to faith. Other thoughts? Okay, I'll go to good old Webster's Dictionary. Suffering. You let that happen. You beat me to it. It's in my Bible. It comes with a dictionary. That's awesome. I like that. You're giving a hint. That's not fair. Distress or suffering resulting from oppression or persecution. Okay. Zodiates. There you go, Wanda. Zodiates. It means to crush, press, compress, squeeze, to break. Tribulation, trouble, or affliction. So, I said the word there for tribulation or trial is a word which literally means like someone were to put you in a vice and start to turn.

You feel very pressed. You're very squeezed. It's that kind of physical pressure that you'd be feeling. It's just that everything cramping down on you. Okay? So pressure, but it's pressure on the mind. It's not that you're physically put in a squeeze box and It's the squeezing down of the tribulation, the pressure on your mind. Okay? We're good? Okay?

Then, the next word, works, most Bible translations have it in the NSV as brings about, or in the New King James as produces, but it can also be defined as works. So, what does works mean? Cricket. Cricket. Results? Sometimes they say bring about. Bring about? Okay. Others? Did you say results? Yeah, getting to it. Yeah, I think that could be. Or it could be yields. Yields? Like, not like stop, but yields, like produces. Yeah. Yeah. Through work. Others?

Okay, from Zodiatis, it's to work, to work out translates to bring about, accomplish, to carry out a task until it is finished. Okay, or to work out, to effect, produce, to be the cause or author of. I think Mike had this, works to bring out a result. means there is a reason for the trial because there is a goal, a result. Trials work patience. The word work here means that there is a goal, there is a reason for the trial. The word work means to achieve something, to bring about a result.

Okay? So, last one. How do you define patience or in the new American standard, perseverance? I'm patiently waiting for it. Forbearance, tolerance, restraint, self-restraint. All that's because of the faith. If you have the faith, you can be patient, persevere.

We're getting there. These are just definitions right now. We'll get there. These are just definitions. Any other for patience, perseverance? Enduring the trauma. What's that? Enduring. Enduring. Okay. Load carrying capacity. Oh, interesting. Load carrying capacity. Okay. Others?

This is kind of where you get kind of onto the meat of this verse, the perseverance part. It said in Perseverance to remain under, bearing up under patience, endurance as to things or circumstances. This is in contrast, well, the Greek word is in contrast to another one that we have that is long-suffering endurance towards people. The one we have is associated with hope. Remember we were talking about hope in these verses? And it refers to the quality of character which does not allow one to surrender to circumstances or to succumb under trial.

I think Mike had this one. Patience to be at home under the trial. Trials bring about a result and the result is patience. Patience is an at home word. It is being at home under the trial and under the suffering. Thoroughly confused? was, I went back to Romans 3 with the vern expanded and explained. Expanded and explained.

Okay, I put it this way, with Romans 5.3, which we can go back up there, let me find it, which was, and not only this, but we exalt in our tribulations knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance.

Okay? With those expanded definitions, it would be factually knowing that the squeezing of pressure on me or my mind will continue to be carried out until the final product that a quality of character will be produced which does not allow me to surrender to circumstances or to succumb under trial. Sounds good. Reasonable? Good enough. For come under you're talking about succumbing. Yeah, to succumbing under. Defeated. Defeated, right. Yeah, you succumb to that pressure. Okay, we can maybe do this. Question eight. What patience is it and why? Whose patience? Whose patience, excuse me. Whose patience, yes. Whose patience and why? So let me read it again.

Therefore, having been justified by faith, There it is. We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we exult in hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance, and perseverance, proven character, and proven character, hope.

So, whose is it? It's one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit, right? Yes. It's a fruit. It's singular. Fruity. You get it all. You get it all. And it's Christ, because it's the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is God. What does the verse say? Oh. It is. It is. Kidding me. What does it say? Verse 2. It's our patience, right? Is that what you were asking?

Christ's patience. It's not ours. It's not waiting that we have faith that at the end we will be glorified. It's by faith the patience comes. Understanding these things. It says by whom, and I'll read another verse. We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, who is providing, through whom we have also obtained. So it's his patience. I mean, we, by faith, through us, exactly.

We had a guy who was, God be his Lord, he always carried a straw around. And that's how he said we are. We're a straw. All we are is a vessel to manifest and produce, all he wears is a flexible straw. He actually got a conduit. He didn't like the straw because it was too rigid. So he got a little hose, or a little flexible hose. You know, that isn't enough. Because we're in union in Christ. I think we're more than conduit. Or straws. From a thing, it's a manifest. We are just a manifest thing.

There's a myriad of more blessings in other positions. But when you think about what we're going through, many times we're just a vessel for his use. Let me get through this other one, Jill, for another verses that I think it succinctly tells it. Romans 15, 4-6. for whatever is written in earlier times is written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope."

Wow, all those same things there. Now, may the God who gives perseverance, patience, perseverance, and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, so that with one accord you may be with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who provided it? He did. That totally makes sense. Yeah. I just had a question for the class, maybe.

So, in this whole issue of patience, so you're in a situation where you're suffering through tribulation, you're being pressed upon, and you know that you have patience available to you. If you were to go to the Lord and say, Lord, help me be patient, how does that fit with what we're talking about? He is patient in us, because he's in us. So we have it, so it's appropriate, but that's a big old word. Well, we can always ask. Exactly. We can.

But what's it going to tell you? If you lack wisdom, ask. And what is it going to tell you? Wait. What's he going to work out in you? That he's given you the patience. Right. I can ask anything. I can ask it. But it's like, give me these spiritual blessings.

Is that what we should be doing? We've got them. We've got them all. We've got them all. So a lot of it is, you know, a lot of it you can ask. And he'll show you that you already have it. You already have it through Christ. Is this one of these things that we spend our time learning about what we already have? Exactly. What we already have. We're asking for things we already have. Who we are. And he's going to go, okay, you already have it. Here it is.

So in John 17, the Lord Jesus prays that we might be one. as He is One, so what you're talking about is dualism. Christ has given me something of His so that I can use it. But that's not what unity is. It's Him living His life through me. Right. It's His life.

Well, it goes back to what Claire, Galatians 2.20. It's His life. But we're a part of that because we have been invited into this union. Right? Not invited, we get the union. He has told us that. So we have that union with him.

As we grow in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus, I think our attitude is going to be like the Lord Jesus' was. He said, I never do anything on myself. I only do what I see my Father doing. Well, if I'm united to the Lord Jesus and I'm totally aware and knowing and operating by faith, but he's doing everything. And in no sense can I take any credit for it or think that, oh, he gave me this or gave me that. He gave me this son, who is all of these things. It's the ultimate conforming to the image and the manifesting of who we are. And our identity, our identification is with Christ. That's who we are.

Let's say you're having a situation, anger, patience, whatever. So that's your old nature. And then you want to, and you recognize, so the first thing that you do is you recognize, I'm in my old nature. Right? Is that legitimate? You recognize that's what you're doing? Well, it may or may not be. I don't know. Given the circumstance. Okay, let's say it's a true circumstance where you're really angry and you shouldn't be angry. Okay. I'm trying to understand how you would describe what you do.

Do you access Christ in you? What would you say Okay, I'm angry, I shouldn't be angry, it's a bad anger. I recognize that at sin, I'm separated from God, I don't want to be. I know I have Christ in me and that He is patience and He is love and He is all those things. Not that I'm asking you for those. He is all those things.

So, are you just saying that you just... use faith and just say I'm switching over and I'm trusting Christ, how does that work in your mind? How does that work? I think the first thing is to recognize, maybe be aware of the fact that you're indwelt by the Holy Spirit and it's his job to make you aware of what's going on. So when he makes you aware, I think the very first thing you do is you reckon yourself indeed dead unto sin and alive unto God. So you claim what is true. It's not a claim. It's not a claim. It's just I understand. I agree with you. OK. And then there's a trust in him to bring about in me what his life is. And I'm not going to give him any preconceived conditions or any rules or any regulation.

I belong to you, I'm dead, I'm alive in Christ and so it's your life and you live it through me. Okay, then the Holy Spirit will just... and then you can rest and the Holy Spirit will just... And then your anger is gone. You like turned your eyes to Christ. Or it's less time.

I always expect the Holy Spirit to do the job He said He would do. So He'll just do the job He said He would do. Then you just allow Him to do the job that He said He would do. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, that's what I do. And that's by faith. It's by faith.

And it may not happen right the first time, but it's like maybe eventually, isn't that growth? That's spiritual growth. As a baby, I don't respond the same as when I'm 10 years old. I don't respond the same when I'm 20 years old. So it's a growth. As you grow and understand, it's a difference. You're growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 3, verse 18. Alright, let's pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you. We thank you for this time. We thank you again. Just understanding these truths that you have and what peace and rest we have in you. And when it is you living your life through us. And that's the understanding. You've promised us that. You've told us that.

And we rest in that. and again we just thank you for any time we can open up your word and study it and just hope that all that we say and do will honor and glorify you and we just we pray for Vern in the next meeting just to bring forth your word accurately and just prepare hearts to receive it and we do just uplift Russ's brother-in-law Bronco also just you know the circumstances And we just pray you'll just give him that peace and understanding that you're in control. And we just pray for wisdom for the doctors. It is our request. And again, just to be glorified through those circumstances. And we just do all these things in Jesus' name. Amen.