Knowing and Growing – Christ’s disciple - what is God doing?
Vern Peterman · Sep 3, 2017
Knowing & Growing, No. 34
Holly Hills Bible Church
https://www.hollyhillsbiblechurch.org/teaching/messages/492666113593

Transcribed from the recording by SermonAudio, so expect the occasional misheard word.

So we have been talking about what God's doing in the life of the believer processes. We started some time ago with looking at being conformed. It took about a month to look at what does it mean to be conformed. And then another several weeks to look at what does it mean to be transformed. And then growing and maturing. And then most recently being sanctified.

And so now we're looking at another process here that is kind of centralized on the word disciple. And so we're going to look at in our typical arrangement, we look at what does that mean? And then the next one, what's God's part in our being a disciple? And then thirdly, we'll look at what's our part.

Now, something to just remind you, you'll get reminded in the main service as well, and that is that no electives this next Sunday. Okay? You're welcome to show up, but you'll be waiting a while most likely. And you'll find that... So anyway, just to warn you in advance, no elective next Sunday. So we'll continue this two weeks from now. with what's God's part in being a disciple. OK, so what we want to point out, and we've got more detail than I'm actually going to go through here, but you're free to take a look at it.

And that is that in this use of the word disciple, there's a tendency for people to look at it and just kind of think it's all the same thing. It isn't. There was actually centuries of use of the word the Greek word that's translated disciple, mathetes, I'm not going to get all greeky geeky, but mathetes. And that word was used among the pagans as a trainee in the pagan temple. But as it came across to the Jews, They were developing this idea of rabbis and disciples and they had their own Hebrew words for that. So that is the background that you see coming in. Here's Jesus coming on to the scene in the early first century and he invites his twelve disciples to be under him.

And so he does some things like all the rabbis and disciples would. We won't spend a lot of time on it. And then he does other things that was so radically different that no rabbi or disciple would ever be included in that. So can you think of what are some things that Jesus did that no rabbi would ever claim? Did Jesus ever claim anything?

Yeah. Yes, he allowed women to be disciples, which just by and large the rabbis, they figured it was a waste of time. It was just not an appropriate use of time. So he allowed women to be disciples. You know, we read about Mary and Martha, and here's Mary that sits at his feet as a disciple, as a woman, and just her. and Jesus taught her. When Lazarus is in the tomb, Mary and Martha refer to Jesus as the teacher. Which, if he didn't teach women, that would be not something they'd be very interested in. But he did, you're correct. But was there anything else different about his his activity or character as a rabbi? Oh, well, he claimed to be God. Yes. Now, how many rabbis would go about claiming to be God? Zip. None. Nada. Because why? Why would the claim to be God be something they just plain would not do? Blasphemy. Yeah, I mean, the bottom line is this is blasphemy. It's among the worst things you could possibly do.

Even Jesus claiming that he had a special relationship with the Father, raised eyebrows. It was permissible among the Jews to say, Our Father, as was given in the so-called Lord's Prayer, Our Father who art in heaven. That was permissible, but to say my father was not. So what did Jesus regularly do? How did he regularly refer to the father? My father. So to them that's like, whoa, this is very upsetting. Very disturbing that he would do that. Alright? And did they have any other claims that would be something a rabbi would just plain never do? Did Jesus claim to be the Messiah? Yeah, just cough, sputter. He didn't do that outright, but he did miracles to prove that he was the Messiah.

He was talking about my father. Let's ask this. It's recorded in more than one of the Gospels. Jesus first asked, who do people say that I am? And then he asked his own disciples, who do you say that I am? And what was Peter's response? You are the Christ.

And did he say, oh no, no, no, no, no, no. Did he correct it? No. Caiaphas, who was by the way a Sadducee, and so since Caiaphas was a Sadducee, did he believe in a Messiah? He did not. He did not believe in a Messiah, he did not believe in a resurrection. So Caiaphas asked Jesus point blank, face to face, are you the Christ? Are you the Messiah? He didn't say yes, but he said, you said it. He says, as you said, basically. Yep, you said it. Yep.

And so here we have Jesus, you know, claiming to be somewhat, I mean, multiple things that Jesus said and did would be entirely unlike any rabbi would ever do. The rabbis and the disciples in traditional Jewish, you know, laws, These are laws by tradition, not by Moses. Traditional Jewish laws would say that a rabbi could not ask his disciples to wash his feet. That was against their rules.

So what did Jesus do? He washed their feet, because there's no rule against that, right? And so what was another thing that Jesus did regularly on the Sabbath that just completely put them through the ceiling? He healed and cast out demons. And what we have recorded in the Gospels, multiple Gospels, what we have recorded is Jesus deliberately healing on the Sabbath. What's that?

Rabbi couldn't do that, they didn't do any healing. Yeah, and what we have is very occasional, but very rare claims to other miracles taking place, whereas Jesus did these regularly. The Jews had 39 different considerations as, got those memorized? 39 different considerations as to what was work. And on top of that they had a list of exceptions and healing was not one of the exceptions. So what did Jesus do?

He healed regularly on the Sabbath at the pool of Bethesda, which is just north of the Temple Mount. He goes there and there's a man who is lame. He keeps trying to get into the pool, right? Because if he can get into the pool, the story goes, if I can get into the pool fast enough that when the angel touches the water, then I can come in and get healed. So Jesus doesn't say, well, I've got some disciples who will help you, or will give you some aid here. He just bypasses that entirely.

And he heals the man right there. And then he tells the man to do what? pick up your mat and walk. And this is on a Sabbath. And so healing on the Sabbath, definitely a no-no. The 39 considerations don't allow you to call healing okay. And it's not on the list of exceptions. So that's bad. And then, He tells the guy to pick up his bed and walk.

Is that legal on the Sabbath? No. So everything about this, and what we read in the Gospels is Jesus healed and cast out demons repeatedly on the Sabbath. Yes. I thought it was fascinating that right after preaching in the synagogue on the Sabbath, he goes straight over to Peter's house and heals his mother specifically before the Sabbath. On the Sabbath.

And then everybody, after the sunset, they would come in and have him heal all these people and cast out demons and all that. Yeah, all afternoon basically he was just healing and healing and healing all the way up until the sun went down, right? Again, again, again.

So Jesus did things and said things that no rabbi would ever say. What we have there is in the third part, at the end of Jesus' ministry, and a lot of this was right before his crucifixion, including the Last Supper, he did several things. One is he told them in preparation for the church age, the beginning of the church, he told them None of you is to be called rabbi. Now this was shocking because for the rabbis and disciples during the time of Christ's ministry, the disciples all hoped to be like their rabbi and become a rabbi.

And one of the things, you know, we'll be taking a look at it here as we go through the book of Acts. There were several ways in which a Jew, according to tradition, could be born again. One of them is, of course, if you were a Gentile and you converted to Judaism, you were considered born again. If you became a rabbi, you were considered born again. So everybody would hope to be born again, and that would be to become a rabbi. To turn around, having been a disciple, and to turn around and be a rabbi to others, that would be the goal.

And Jesus says, uh-uh. Why? Why are you not doing that in the church? The whole system of rabbis and disciples goes away. Does the word disciples go away? No. The word disciple doesn't go away, but rabbis goes away. What were the rabbis centrally focused on? What was their main focus teaching their disciples? The law of Moses. Their main focus was the law of Moses. As a matter of fact, even the rabbis would typically say, take my yoke upon you, which means take my training about the law upon you.

None of you is to be called rabbi because you're not under the law. Eh? You're not under the law and all of the traditions about rabbis and disciples are just going to go away. Yes? There was no mention of Saul being a rabbi, was there? There's no mention of him being a rabbi having been, as we'll see as we go through Acts, having been a disciple of Gamaliel. he would most certainly hope to be a rabbi. And the fact that he was known among and well regarded among the Sanhedrin, even the high priest, says that that's where he was headed had he not had his course changed. And the typical age for becoming a rabbi would be at least age 30.

Right? And so it says he's a young man, not yet a rabbi, probably indicating that he's not yet 30. Right? So late 20s probably when he became a believer. Yes? And I would say, or add to that, not just the Law of Moses, but primarily Torah. Yes. The Torah, and we talk about the Old Testament, to them it's not the Old Testament, that's the Scriptures. Right?

So you have that, and so what you see at the end of Matthew there, we quote Matthew 23, 8, nobody is to be called rabbi. Are there exceptions to that? Does Peter get to be called a rabbi? How about John? Nobody in the church gets called rabbi. We have the word disciple used repeatedly, but no rabbis. None. Here is the Apostle Paul, he is trained under Gamaliel. That guy, if anybody, is qualified to be a rabbi. Is he a rabbi? No. He never, ever claims it. And as a matter of fact, one of the questions we're going to see, and it's going to take us a while to trace it down, after Saul, who becomes the Apostle Paul, is saved, Is he still a Pharisee? That's a trick question.

Anyway, okay. But the other things we see in here is that Jesus gives the command, make disciples. This is Matthew 28, 19. Go, or actually as you're going, and by the way it's not a command to go, it just assumes you're going to go, right? As you're going, make disciples. And make disciples is a command. And Lord, I'm with you always, even to the end of the age. So how long is making disciples an ongoing command?

Still now. Still now. Pardon? Yeah, as long as we're here in the church, you know, and the church is present. Till the rapture. Making disciples is still in effect. Making disciples is still in effect. Okay, so now, what we have here, Jesus, as we'll see shortly, what we'll have is Jesus at the Last Supper is telling them that if you love one another you'll prove to be my disciples and abiding in me and therefore bearing much fruit you will prove to be my disciples. It's very interesting and he waited until the last days, the last hours of his life to tell them no more rabbis and if you are my disciples you will abide in me and bear much fruit and you will love one another and so prove to be my disciples.

So this is actually in a church context. He's getting them ready for the beginning of the church. It's not a Jewish context. Because it goes right along with No More Rabbis. So we have the fourth stage, and this is the one that continues, and that is, it starts from the day that the church began, Acts chapter 2, until the day that the Lord comes for us again. And it is still in effect even today.

Okay, are we done making disciples? No. And ultimately, though we have activity making disciples, and you guys have to go make disciples, whose disciples are they in the big picture? Christ's disciples. So that's the thing God never intended, that we have, okay, here are disciples of this guy, and here are disciples of that guy. And here are the disciples of this group. And here are the disciples of that other group.

Ultimately, any disciple-making activities, which are to take place among us in the church body, to make disciples is a command. Any disciple-making activities are not designed to have those people following us ultimately, but have them be disciples, personal disciples of Christ.

Alright, so if you want to look more at these four stages as I have them here, we had a handout in lesson three where we had four pages explaining more detail on this. What we're going to do, however, is to move ahead. Let's move on to page two. And so we quote at the top of page two, Matthew 28, 19, and 20, Go therefore and make disciples, that's an imperative, of all the nations, baptizing in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to observe all that I commanded you, for along with you always, even to the end of the age."

So this is Make Disciples. By the way, you'll find in the older versions, prior to John Darby, they don't have that as Make Disciples. John Darby was the first one to come up with it. So while making disciples begins with evangelism, the elements of making disciples continue during the book of Acts and afterwards even in the letters of Paul.

And so let's take a look at, here are some words that are used in the New Testament. So words in the New Testament that speak of copying the life of another. One is mameomai, translated follow. Translated follow. Next one, similar, mimitis, in the Greek New Testament is to imitate something about another person in a positive way. So we would have derived from that, not meaning the identical thing, to imitate or mimic Those are derived from this Greek word.

And then finally, tupos, and what it means is to be a pattern or an example. Have you ever seen something that has had a number or a name stamped in it? They'll have a die, so to speak. They'll hold it against usually a piece of metal. and they'll go BANG and they'll put some kind of, maybe it's a serial number or they'll have some other short instruction or something of that sort. They did that in biblical times and that's what this Tupos is designed to indicate.

That there is an example set in place that's then reproduced from one to the next. So those are three words and they're used, both of them are used repeatedly in the New Testament. Let's take a look at them in the chart on the next page, we'll take a further look. So here's 1 Corinthians 4, 14-17.

And the Apostle Paul writes, I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel."

What does he mean by that? Yeah, he basically, I was the one who originally gave you the gospel that you believed and therefore were saved. Right? So that's what he's meaning by that. What does he mean by countless tutors? Well, in this case, he's the evangelist that brought the news.

These tutors, what do tutors typically do? They teach or train people. A lot of times we think of tutors as doing so personally. So you may have a number of people giving you examples, teaching you on different things, but I'm your spiritual father because I'm the one who gave you the gospel initially.

So therefore I exhort you So this is interesting. I exhort you as an appeal to the will, be imitators of me. So is he wanting them to do a good acting job and behave like Paul in every nuance including hand gestures and manner of speaking? Is that what he's looking for? No. What does he mean by be imitators of me? What's meant there? His walk? Okay. And when you say walk, what do you mean? His walk in Christ? Good. Alright. So he's looking for them to be imitators of him. Yeah?

And that's the exact same First Corinthians 11.1, thank you for pointing that out. Next one, be imitators of me just as I also am of Christ. And so he doesn't say just imitate me and you'll be good, right? Where does he point in that imitation?

Christ. And it's not superficial. It's not superficial. Is it possible for someone to act like a good Christian and it's just an acting job? It is. It is. I've seen movies where people who I'm quite sure are not Christians have acted as if they were good Christians. Of course, I'm not sure how many outtakes there were. But at least in the movie, they do a good job of acting like a Christian. That's not what he's talking about here, is it? The imitation is not superficial. He is not saying, be a good actor, and as you do so, imitate me superficially.

I've actually seen it in circumstances where people are learning from a pastor in a church, and they tend to try to follow everything down to mannerisms and gestures, Figures of speech and everything else. Wait a minute, that's not what we're talking about. 1 Thessalonians 1, 6 and 7. Now, as we read 1 Thessalonians, remember the Thessalonians were young in the Lord, weeks old when he wrote them. You also became imitators of us and of the Lord.

So what does that say? Imitators of us and the Lord, that sounds a lot like the imitators of me as I am of Christ. So, similar saying, having received the word in much tribulation with the joy of the Holy Spirit so that you became an example. See, here's that word tupos. You became a pattern or an example for others to follow.

You see that? So these words are oftentimes used in a similar context. Here's another one, 2 Thessalonians 3, 7 and 9. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. So here's a combination of words there, right? Because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you, and he goes on there, and at the end of verse 9, not because we do not have a right to this, that is of support, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you so that you would follow our example. Same words again. So this idea is something that the Apostle Paul used repeatedly and he's not the only one in scripture using this idea of following and imitate an example.

We have also in Philippians 3, 17 and 18 and then going on into Philippians 4.9, the next one down.

Brethren, join in following my example. See that again. And observe those who walk according to the pattern that you have in us. And then he says in 4.9, the things that you have actively learned and actively received and actively heard and actively seen in me. By the way, we're going to make a point of that in the next service here. actively seeing me practice these things. Put them into practice.

And the God of peace will be with you as you do it. It is not a delegated assignment. As you do these things, God will be with you in it, because he's not just assigning for you to go off and do it, but for him to be with you in all of who he is, and all of his accomplishments, and all of his resources along with it.

Finally, at the bottom of the page, 2 Timothy 2.2, here's 2 Timothy, Paul's last letter to Timothy, who we would say he discipled Timothy, right? The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, and trust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. So this is a disciple making kind of activity.

Timothy, basically I'm paraphrasing here, Timothy I'm writing you my last letter. And when you write last letters and you know it's your last letter, what do you do? You write things that really matter. That's what he's doing here. Timothy, the things that I have taught you, write alongside others.

I want you to turn around and teach those exact same things. to others and especially to those who will turn around and teach others also. Alright, so let's take a look at the top of page 3. What we did there is we had a table and we said that in that we use the word follow. This is 2 Thessalonians 3, 7 and 9 and Hebrews 3, 17 and 3 John 11. And then this word imitate used from 1 Corinthians 4 down to 1 Thessalonians 1.

And notice Philippians 3.17 and 1 Thessalonians 1.5-7 that we've read here have both imitate an example of the same verses. Same passage there. And then we have this example idea. carried on from the Apostle Paul on into the book of Hebrews and into two places in 1st Peter.

So here we have this follow, imitate an example used repeatedly. What are those? Those are things intended for people to learn from with the ultimate intent being that they are disciples of Christ. the ultimate intent that they're disciples of Christ. So we have some really good passages here to give us some understanding of what's this disciple thing, what does it mean when it says imitate, it's not a superficial acting job.

So we've got John 15, 1-9 It goes like this, and this we looked at very early in our study in this Knowing and Growing elective. So here's Christ at the Last Supper, and by John 15, 1-9, they were either just leaving or had just left the Last Supper when he tells them this.

So he says, I am the true vine and my father is the vinedresser. So one of the things to tell you is this I am is the Greek egoini, which is a claim to deity. I being in fact God and the true vine and my father, and by the way, my father, is that something a rabbi would say? Absolutely not.

Because that claims a special relationship with the father who is God. And so, why would Jesus claim a special relationship with the Father? Because He is Deity. Because He is Deity, and He has in fact had a special relationship with the Father for how long? Eternity. Eternity passed, right? So it hasn't been like, I've had a special relationship for the last ten years, for the last even couple centuries. I've had a special relationship with the Father since before I said, let there be light.

And so, I being in fact God am the true vine and my Father with whom I have a special relationship beginning in eternity is the vine dresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away and every branch that bears fruit he prunes so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Verse 4, abide in me and I in you.

And that's an imperative. So let's ask this question. If you're a believer here today, do you already have Christ in you? Yes you do. That's abundantly clear. Paul made it clear as he wrote to the church at Rome. Romans chapter 8. Good for starters. Galatians is another book, really clear, we have Christ in us.

Now, so Christ is in us, are you in Christ? Yes you are. 1 Corinthians chapter 1 verse 30, By God's doing you are in Christ Jesus. Who did it? God did it. You are in Christ Jesus. So you are in Christ Christ is in you. God pulled it off. All we did was what? We believed. That's it. We believed and God pulled off everything else.

He's the one who did it. You are in Christ because of His doing. He is in you. Why does He have to have a command then, abide in me and I in you, if Christ is already in us and we're in Him? Is there something wrong here? What's this command? Why do we have that? Yes. Yes, he gets the nourishment from the tree. And here's what's curious. Jesus gives the example of the vine and the branches.

Do you have branches that have a hard time deciding whether or not they're going to abide in the vine? Do you ever see branches going back and forth? See branches that can't make up their mind? You know? See branches that jump off of the vine, and then five minutes later, jump back on, and kind of go back and forth. Can't quite figure it out. Ever have that happen? I've never seen it.

So what happens here when he says, Abide in me and I in you, it's something, he's used the illustration, but we in fact have a will. It does not change our, as we defined last week, it does not change our relationship That's already established, but our fellowship is something that depends on us as an act of will.

Whenever you see in the Bible an urging, I urge you, I exhort you, that's an appeal to the will of the believer. Whenever you see an imperative, abide in me and I in you, that's an appeal to the will of the believer. This is what is unique about the illustration He is the vine, and the Father is the vinedresser, and we're the branches, right? And so that's what's unique, and this is where any illustration begins to fall apart, is that we as believers have to, as an act of will, continue to abide. Can we not abide? Is that a choice we can make? Yes we can.

Does it make any spiritual sense? No. Any more than the branches jumping off onto the vine makes any sense at all either. It only makes sense for the branches to stay connected to the vine. Do the branches take half hour vacations from that? No. Is it good for us to take half hour vacations from abiding in Christ? So let's see what happens here.

Abide in me and I in you, as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in me. I am, this is by the way the same words as in verse 1, I am divine, I being in fact God, am divine, you are the branches and he who abides in me and I in him, he bears much fruit. For apart from me you can only do a little bit. For apart from me you can only do half as much. Is that right? No. Apart from me you can do nothing. Right? If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away as a branch and dries up and they gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned. But if you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. I'm speaking to them as apostles.

My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples. So in the end, everything that we do at Holly Hills to make disciples is aimed towards what? Everyone being Christ's disciples, and so it's not aimed at any particular person here, and on top of that, the fruitfulness is not something to please everyone else. The fruitfulness is to please who?

The Father, the vine dresser, is looking for what? Lots of fruit. Are you responsible for the fruit? Is there a command for you to bear lots of fruit? What's the command to you? Abide. That's it. Okay? Christian life, at the core, is real simple. It is simple but hard, but one of the things that makes it extra hard is people try to think, oh, the command is for me to bear fruit. No, it isn't. It's not my job to bear fruit. That's the Father's job. It's my job to do one thing. Abide. Abide in me and I in you. That's it. Then there's fruit bearing and it's the Father's job.

So unlike what's known in nature, we can disconnect our fellowship from God. Yes, and yes we can. Does it make any spiritual sense for us to do so? It's spiritual insanity just like, you know, if you were to drive by a vineyard and see these branches hopping on and hopping off and they can't decide, you know, last night they were connected to the vine and woke up this morning and all the branches are laying off to the side. We'd look at it and say, that is the craziest vineyard I've ever seen, right? And yet what happens is essentially, you know, Christians can have this spiritual insanity where we think, well I can do this on my own. And what does Jesus say about that? Apart from me you can do nothing. And it doesn't matter if everyone else is impressed, it doesn't matter if we impress ourselves. Apart from Him we can do nothing. Yes? So that's something, we won't be able to take the time in this.

What I'll tell you is this, as someone who, and it's been a long time, but as someone I've actually worked in the vineyards years and years ago, as someone who worked in the vineyards, what I'll tell you is there is a spring and a fall pruning. And so one of the things that's frequently overlooked is vineyard. What is the vineyard practice that describes this?

And so what you have is two times of pruning, but at no time are productive branches cut off. So this is not some sort of a threat. What it means is that there's, and by the way, you cut the vines back pretty harshly. What it means is not that there's some threat that you're going to get snipped off. What it means is that there's some pretty harsh pruning to take place early and later in the season. Because it's actually referenced at two different pruning times. Harsh pruning, all of the pruning, as intense as it is, is aimed at one thing. What? Fruitfulness. That's it. So harsh pruning is aimed at fruitfulness.

Is harsh pruning of the father, because he's the vine dresser, right? Is harsh pruning of the father intended to just give you a bad time? Is harsh pruning of the father something that he does recklessly? Does harsh pruning call into question whether the father loves you? No. What is the father looking to do? fruitfulness. Does any of his pruning come across as this is really crazy?

Why are you doing this? To us it may seem that, but as we look at it, harsh pruning, and this pruning was twice a year. You'd have spring pruning and you'd have fall pruning, right? And both of them were aimed at maximizing the fruit variant, right? So it is extremely critical we understand this is what the Father is aiming for. The fruitful, fruit-bearing branches are exactly what he intends to have and remain even though there is intense pruning twice a year. Yes?

OK, up where it says John 15, 1 through 9, it says you are already clean. I assume that could be a synonym for redeemed, right? And it's interesting that it says that because of the word which I have spoken to you, which it's not indicating any kind of action on the individual's part. It's just talking about the word or the gospel. Yeah, so this would actually relate back to some things we looked at earlier. What are some ways that you can be pruned? And that, by the way, clean, cleansed is pruned. Cleansed is pruned. The term that was used was, after they prune a vine, it was said to be cleansed. So what are the ways that a believer can be cleansed?

I have another question that I didn't want to ask, because it says, if anyone doesn't want to buy the meal, he is thrown away as the merchant flies off, so I don't know why. Like I say, this gets into some things that are more than we can cover here. Let me make a point, however, of getting you some materials from our earlier study on this passage. where we talk some of the details, because there are things in here that kind of look, you look at and you go, whoa, that sounds pretty intense, you know, and it can call into question that we don't have time to get into it.

But having. Having worked in the vineyards as well as studied the Greek, I can put that together and say this is how it makes sense. So at any rate, I'll get something to you on that that I think will be helpful. Yes. I think one way you can also read it is the natural consequence of a vining. A natural consequence of biting is bearing fruit. And if you don't bite, you're going to dry up spiritually and wither away, and that will require pruning. So it's not to be thrown away, but it's just the natural consequence of a spiritual life. One of the things as we read any passage, is this talking about relationship, or is this talking about fellowship? Do you see the distinction there? Are we talking relationship, which is permanent and does not change? Or are we talking fellowship?

And in any passage we go to, that is what is important to discern as to what it's saying. We can have some things that on the face of them look pretty intense and severe. But making the distinction between relationship and fellowship is the key to understanding the passage properly.

Yes. And I think the point that John is trying to make is abide so as to bear fruit. It's not a threat of you're going to lose your salvation if you don't. Yes. So the point is. If you want to bear fruit, as I've commanded, is to abide. That's the point. And let's put it this way.

If I am not abiding, is it possible that the Father could prune very severely? Yes. Why? He's not bearing fruit, but the intent is that we bear fruit. And just like in the vineyards, because I've been there, worked in them, in the vineyards the pruning sometimes looks surprisingly severe. It's just, wait a minute, that was something that had a bunch of fruit coming off of it and you're cutting it off. Yep. Why? So it'll bear more fruit. Vineyarders want bigger grapes a lot of times. When you don't prune, you have a lot of bunches, but they're tiny little grapes. They want bigger grapes, so they got to prune back to get bigger grapes.

So what happens is as we look at passages like this, we look at is this relationship or is this fellowship issue? That's part one. And then looking at it, if it's a fellowship issue and the Lord's looking for fellowship with us that is based on the relationship that's unchangeable, then in fact, can God do some fairly severe things in the life of a believer to do the pruning? Yes. The answer is yes. So back to the cleaning, what did you say? There's different ways of cleaning?

There are two seasons. There's a spring There's a spring pruning and a fall pruning. This passage, John 15, 1-8, actually refers to both pruning seasons within the passage. And by the way, Jesus said this during the spring pruning. Jesus said this during the spring pruning season, but in fact, there's also a fall pruning season. But by that time he was already resurrected and ascended, and the church had begun. So he said this in the midst of the spring pruning season. Alright, so let's see on page 4, top of page 4, Ephesians 4, 17-24. In this case I'm using the Darby translation with a few comments in brackets.

It says, This I say therefore and testify in the Lord that you should no longer walk as the nations, And this walk is a Jewish word meaning ordering one's individual life according to a spiritual principle, as the nations, or as it has in some translations, the Gentiles, and walk in the vanity of their mind, being darkened in understanding, estranged from the life of God by reason of the ignorance which is in them, by reason of the hardness of their hearts, but having cast off all feeling, have given themselves up to lasciviousness to work all uncleanness with greedy, unsatisfied lust.

But you have not thus learned, this is the verb form for disciple, you have thus not learned, or as Constable puts it, learned as a disciple, the Christ, that is the Messiah. So what he's saying is you have learned from Christ, the Messiah, learned from him personally, but it's not the way the Gentiles walk. You haven't learned that. You have instead learned other things from being his personal disciple.

When we talk about disciple, that's not putting ourselves under Jewish law. When we talk about being a disciple, it's not simply a matter of just, okay, who's the person on earth that God's given me to follow after. Ultimately, it is knowing Him personally, and that's what this verse is focusing on. It is knowing Him personally and learning Him.

If I go to seminary and get a doctorate degree in Jesus, is that going to fulfill everything that God has in mind? No. Going to seminary and getting a doctorate degree in Jesus, and by the way, there are people who do that, will not fulfill what God has in mind.

How do I learn Jesus? How do I learn Him? Not just about Him, Him. How do I learn Jesus? By fellowship with Him, one of the things we've said is fellowshiping with Him and abiding in Christ, walking in the Spirit, these are all different ways of expressing the same thing. Can you learn Christ without abiding in Him? No. You can learn about Christ, You go to a seminary and get a doctorate degree in Jesus.

That's not what this is talking about. I can learn things about Christ, but that's not what he's aiming for. I could go to seminary and get a doctorate degree in Jesus, but what does he say? Apart from me, you can do nothing. The person who has a doctorate degree in Jesus from seminary, he may have multiple doctorate degrees in seminary, but does not abide in Christ, still can do nothing. A person can have triple doctorates in Jesus and be fruitless. And the father's looking and he's saying, there's nothing here at all, right? Yes.

I was going to say, does the person know more about people that you just meet or your friends, or do you know more about your family, who you live with? So the word abide means to live with, correct? To live in the same camp, supposedly. So you know a lot more when you live with someone than when you meet someone.

And that's kind of what the rabbis were too, right? Because you almost lived with these people, like the disciples followed Christ and lived with him. Yes. So that's how it came about. Not that they knew him, but that they lived with him. And think about this, he says, abide in me and I in you to the disciples hours before he's about to be crucified. Did they understand at that time what he meant? They did not. They did not understand what he meant. As a matter of fact, they couldn't even do it. They did not understand it. They couldn't even do it right then.

About that. Abide in me and I in you, and they're going, huh? So that's why John writes about this years later. Oh, that's what he was talking about, right? They had these immensely astounding but important aha moments. Oh, that's what he was talking about. Abide in me and I in you. And when Jesus was saying these things, you know what they were arguing about? Which one of them was the greatest? They were arguing about that, about the time he was telling them this, right? Yeah, really amazing. Abide in me and I in you, apart from me you can do nothing. Okay, which one of us is the greatest?

Here's the last one we'll look at, Colossians 3, 1-4. Therefore, if you have been raised up with Christ, and by the way that's not an if and it's doubtful, that's an if and it's assumed to be true, keep seeking the things above where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. Where do you set your minds? On things above. Set your minds on things above, not on the things that are on earth.

So does that mean when I'm driving I don't look at the road in front of me. Nancy and I have this great little sunscreen that we can pull across, you know, in front of us on the windshield, like when we're parked. Should we drive like that? Because we're just going to set our minds on things above.

So what does this mean, set your minds on things above? Here our purpose and goal is to please him and that's very good. And what else? It reminds me a lot of Romans 8 where you're supposed to set your mind on the spirit and not on the flesh. It ultimately is looking to him no matter what you're doing. Yes. And setting our minds on spiritual things. Ah, setting our minds on spiritual things, right?

Even though, I mean, imagine, I majored in engineering. Can you imagine if I just set my mind on things above and didn't... Deal with that? You'd have bridges falling and, you know, roadways failing and all sorts of horrible things. So it doesn't mean do this and not this in terms of dealing with things here, but it means that my focus and my attention is centered on spiritual things. Now, we've run out of time, and I can tell because we have people out there milling about, waiting when we're going to get done. So, I'm going to pray, and then we'll call it. Two weeks from now we'll meet again, okay?

And I will try to pull together some materials for us on this John 15 passage so we can do some catching up here. Lord, we do thank you for what you've laid out here. Thank you that your intent is that we be your disciples and explicitly, not just to learn about you, but that we know you and that we depend upon you and that we have intimacy with you. And so we ask that you teach us these things. We pray in the days ahead. We pray in Jesus' name. Amen.