Q&A 39: What is meant by The heavens are rolled up...Is 34:4, Q&A 40: What is...

These are some questions. This was one that was not one that I put out to select from, but some that was forwarded that somebody came up with. This one, question 39, what is meant by the heavens are rolled up like a scroll? That's from Isaiah 34. All the hosts of heaven will wear away, and at least as the New American Standard has it, the sky will be rolled up like a scroll. All their hosts will also wither away as a leaf withers from the vine, as one withers from the fig tree.

This verse, like a lot of places in particularly the Old Testament prophets and also in the book of Revelation, uses the similes, like or as. Also some metaphors, but not using the like or as. For example, if I were to say, Vern eats like an elephant, that would be the like or as. It's a simile. If I were to just simply say, Vern's an elephant, that would be a metaphor. What's that? Yes, what's the metaphor there for? Yep. 2 Peter 3, 10-13 says, but the day of the Lord. Yes. Yeah.

Let's say first of all, there's one winner from the fig tree. The fig tree quite often is a simile for Jerusalem, for Israel. Is it here? Oh, I am not quite sure that that's the case. Yeah. I'm not sure that that's the case here, and I haven't particularly studied that in detail, but I'm not sure that that's the case here. One of the things, as a leaf withers from the vine, vine is also a picture of Israel in many cases too. I'm not sure that's the case here. I'd have to look at the larger context. Not quite sure. Another question. Yeah. Is the host, are those the angels in that? Ah, okay. The hosts, The term host is a term for a very large number.

And so it's sometimes used of the armies of Israel. It's sometimes used of angels. It's sometimes used of stars. So a number of different terms. This case here, because of the context, the host of heaven will wear away, the sky will be rolled up like a scroll, their hosts will wither away. The context here seems to indicate it's a physical host, likely referring to the stars. And in the Hebrew poetry pattern where things are made to rhyme, One of the things that we do with our more Greek cultural background is we like to rhyme sounds. The Jews instead like to rhyme meanings, and so that's the case here.

The host of heaven will wear away, the sky will be rolled up like a scroll. You'll have, in looking at the sky rolled up like a scroll, here's 2 Peter 3, 10-13. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat?

You have a statement very much like this, Isaiah 34.4. Here it says, I look and he broke the sixth seal. This was Christ broke the sixth seal in the heavenlies and the seventh seal scroll.

And there was a great earthquake and the sun became black and sackcloth made of hair and the whole moon became like blood. And the stars of the sky fell to the earth as a ripe fig tree casts unripe figs which are shaken by a great wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll when it was rolled up. A similar statement alongside the figs there. Revelation 20 11, Then I saw the great white throne, and him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

There are a number of figures of speech that are used, and sometimes this like or as, the comparison. It's important in each case to try to understand what is the comparison that's being made. Now, one thing is, during biblical times, what kinds of things would they make comparisons to, with like or as, and what things would they not make comparisons to? Any thoughts or input on that?

They would make some comparisons to things agricultural, Often the figs, right? The vine. Comparisons with things that are agricultural, really common. Even in Revelation, hair white like wool, right? And why? Because about 90% of the people were agriculturally based in their economy and occupations, right? So lots of things agricultural.

If you have reference to a book, in Scripture, like you do in some places, they didn't have books like this. These were invented in the century right after the Bible was completed. So if you talk about a book, it's not a book that's bound on one side like we typically think of. So if things were written, they were not always, but often written on the scroll.

Now, have you ever had something that's been rolled up a while? and you unroll it, what happens when you let it go? It's right back into its rolled up condition and I think that's one reason why both Isaiah and John use this description like a scroll. If you take something like a scroll or even what I've seen more commonly since I tend to see more plans than scrolls, you get a set of house plans or plans for some kind of construction And it's been rolled up, right? And it sits there rolled up. And they even have cubby holes to keep the roll in. And as soon as you let that thing go, it's back into its rolled up state. And I think when you get this description, the sky will be rolled up like a scroll.

And what if that tells you, first of all, it's not going to be some slow, gradual thing, right? It's going to be something that moves fast. The other thing is, what do you do with a scroll when you're done with it. Yeah, you put it away. And that's a part of when you look at the scroll nodes at the bottom here, we've got some numbers one, two and three. Yes.

I'm sorry. The heavens destroyed. Could that refer to the new heavens and new earth? Well, no. This is the present heavens and earth because there is the creation of the new heavens and new earth, right? Okay? So what 2 Peter 3, 10-13 is talking about is the destruction of the present heavens and earth. Okay? Right. And then the new heavens and new earth will follow. Number one there, a scroll is rolled up when the reader is done with it and the reading is likely ended. So the Lord will have done with the use of this present heavens and earth.

One of the things that we find in the creation account, and we find made reference to in Revelation, is the sun and the stars and the moon, right? Well, the sun, stars, and moon created on the fourth day, and what were they for? It says there in Genesis 1, what were the sun, moon, and stars given for? Yeah, for signs and seasons, for marking time. Will there be a sun in the new heavens and new earth?

No. Done with it. And so that's the part when it says rolled up like a scroll, we're done with this. Right? Just like the reason you put a scroll away and you roll it up and put it away is you're done with it, at least for a time. Right? And so that comparison would fit.

The second point there, a scroll rolled up is likely put away, possibly out of sight for at least out of usual use as an open scroll, which also fits the end of the earth scenario. We're done with it. We're through with its regular use. We're putting it away. And then the last thing, the point we made, if you have something that's rolled up, whether it's a scroll, set of plans, something rolled up that's been left rolled up, when you let it go, boy, it just rolls right back up, just all of its own.

It rolls back up, quick hold state. And this is also likely the indication that if it's rolled up like a scroll, that when this heaven and earth is done, it'll just go quickly. It won't be some slow, gradual, you know, drifting away. but rather it'll be done away quickly. As a matter of fact, that's what you see in Revelation 2011, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away. Gone.

You know those shades that You know, you go and pull on them and sometimes you have to play with the mechanism to get them to do what they're supposed to do. And if there's enough room in there, it doesn't just go, zhoop, what does it do? It goes, zhoop, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah So I think it is one of the kinds of figures of speech that you see there in Isaiah.

We see it real similarly in Revelation chapter 6. There are a tremendous number of figures of speech and people do have plenty of questions about them because some of them are not quite as familiar with us. Some of them are very similar to the kinds of things that we say, but some are not. A fellow by the name of Bullinger, oh, a hundred years ago, compiled all the figures of speech that he could find and catalogued them in the Bible.

He had that printed and it was about a thousand pages. I'm not sure there's a pocket edition for that, so anyway, you'll have to get the big one. On this looking for and hastening, how do we hasten it? I'll tell you what, it's going to take a little more time than we've got, but here's what I'll do, because we did study 2 Peter here as an elective, and I'll get a write-up on that to you. Alright, let's take a look to the second page.

The question there, what is the history of Israel's tribes and are ten of the tribes lost? You ever hear about that? The ten lost tribes? Okay, well, we'll address that here. Below is a simple chart of the sons of Jacob. who are the heads of the tribes of Israel, along with several key descendants. The life of Jacob through the lives of Manasseh and Ephraim are recorded for us in Genesis chapters 25, so about halfway through. So that's the halftime show, right? Halfway through to the end, chapter 50, where these sons and their families ended up in Egypt. And so you have a chart here that shows Jacob, two wives and two concubines, and the sons from each. And in addition to that, Leah had a daughter, Dinah. And in a few cases, some key personalities are additionally added to the chart.

Moses and Aaron, for instance. And then you have King David and Jesus through the line of Judah. And over on the right-hand side, King Saul. And by the way, the next Saul mentioned, the Apostle Paul, who was previously named Saul, was also the line of Benjamin.

So in their exodus from Egypt about 1446 BC, they're wandering the wilderness, conquest of the land of Canaan. began about 1406 BC, 40 years later. We talked last week about the wandering in the wilderness. They're recorded in the books of Exodus through Joshua. Their identification by tribe and the record and location of the tribes through this period appear to be fairly clear. As we have records in the Bible, sometimes multiple genealogies that when you start connecting them, they have even redundancy enough to be pretty clear and certain.

The tribes remain identifiable and generally held to their original assigned tribal lands through the time of King Solomon. Following the death of Solomon in around 931 BC, however, civil war broke out between the tribes, and the tribes of Judah and Benjamin became the southern kingdom known as Judah, named after the prominent tribe. In other words, there's two tribes, Benjamin and Judah, but named after Judah, the prominent tribe. Why was Judah the prominent tribe?

Christ came through that, and that was also the line that was prophesied way back in Genesis, the late chapters, I think it's about 48 or 49, prophesied Judah would be the one through whom the scepter would follow. And then the other tribes became the northern kingdom of Israel.

From the time of Solomon's rule over Israel until the end of the Old Testament period is charted on the next page. Examine particularly the place and date shown as Assyria conquers Israel. So this is on page 3. Assyria conquered Israel and the southern kingdom remained.

So what happens is because the two tribes in the south and the ten tribes in the north are assumed to have remained continuous and remained as those separate groups, then what has happened, there is a group known as British Israelism or Anglo-Israelism And they say that what happened is those 10 tribes, when the Assyrians took them away, went and were taken up into Europe and even into Britain. And so, what's that? Well, that's a problem. That they migrated up there.

And so you'll have people and they will make a very intense rather religious and frankly racist statement that the Jews who claim to be Jews now are really all just usurpers and that the real Jews are the people of Britain or the people of Northern Europe and things of that sort. And a lot of what they will do is take similarities of names. For example, one of the nations in Northern Europe is Denmark, right? So they say that's people from the tribe of Dan. So that kind of thing. So what they'll say is God's chosen people are these people in Northern Europe or these people in Britain.

And so that's really the Jews. So as a consequence, the people who claim to be Jews now are looked upon as usurpers and frauds and looked down upon. Well, they're finding Jews now in Russia. Oh, there are Jews scattered all over the world, and that is exactly what prophecy spells out. That the Jews would be scattered all over the place. Moses told them. Right? Moses told them that would happen. And the reason it would happen is because they disobeyed the Lord. Right? Okay. There are some problems with the idea that the ten tribes of Israel were lost, which include it's contrary to what the Bible says in both the Old and New Testaments, and it's in conflict with the findings of archaeology and science.

So let's take a look here. I'm looking at the bottom of page 3. After a united kingdom under King Saul, David, and Solomon, a civil war divided the people of Israel about 931. Benjamin and Judah comprised the southern kingdom of Judah for its prominent tribe and the other ten tribes in the northern kingdom were called Israel or Ephraim for its prominent tribe. So similar pattern there. On top of page 4.

But many of the northern kingdom moved to the southern kingdom. That's where they lose it. You see, initially the southern kingdom was Benjamin and Judah only. But what would happen is when times would get bad, and sometimes it was economically bad, sometimes it was bad from military pressures, sometimes it would be bad because the northern kings were just nasty, what would the people in the northern kingdoms do? They'd move south. Right? They'd say, hey, this place is terrible. These people are just awful. And we're not worshiping at the right temple. And we don't have Levites. And this just doesn't work.

And so a number of them would migrate into the southern kingdom. So in the end, Judah, the southern kingdom, had representatives from all of the tribes. Every one. So it wasn't a matter when Assyria came and took the people of the Northern Kingdom away and they didn't take them all. It wasn't a matter of those ten tribes being entirely taken away and then therefore lost. So the other thing is when the Assyrians... Oh, we'll take a look at this in a minute here. Getting ahead of myself. Alright.

Second Chronicles 11, 14 through 16 and Second Chronicles 15, 9 record some of those movements to the Southern Kingdom. In about, just above the middle of page four, there's a bolded heading, not all the people in the Northern Kingdom were taken into captivity.

So not all of them went. So we have several different recordings from Second Chronicles there in that passage. And it says, some of the men and women and children were taken away. So what you have, because it wasn't a simple matter of all of the northern tribes, all being of the ten tribes, and pure and simple, all of them taken away by Assyria. That just isn't the case.

Right? We have the migration of many of the people to the south. We have the Assyrians not taking all of them away. And the other thing that keeps them from being lost, the other thing that keeps them from being lost is the Bible records exactly where the Assyrians moved them. Right? So if you know where they are, are they lost? Yeah, the Bible records exactly where the Assyrians moved them.

And so, let's see. I have a question. My question on that then, is how does this fit in with the Israel Jews that were over into Northern Africa, and Moses was the one that brought them back out. Most of the Jews went over there, weren't they? They were in captivity. They're working for the Egyptians. How does that fit in with what we're talking about here?

Well, when the Israelites left Egypt, did they all leave Egypt? Did they all leave? Did they all leave? Yeah. From any evidence we have, they all left. Yeah, they all left. So none of them remained there. However, there were other times when some Jews did move into Egypt. As a matter of fact, they basically have been scattered all over the world. Yeah, scattered all over the world. Yes, oh yeah. Yeah, this is... The time we're talking about here is 800 years later. So, yeah, quite a bit later. Now, here's something else.

If there were no people left of the northern tribes, in other words, if they're all taken away, then we should have no tribes listed in the New Testament None. Listed in the New Testament except for Benjamin and Judah. Right? Does that make sense? So, what do we find? Here is Luke chapter 2, 36 and 38.

There was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of what? Asher. One of the northern tribes. I am in the middle of page 6. Middle of page 6. In the middle of page 6, there's a bolded heading in New Testament times. Are you with me there? Okay. Middle of page 6, bolded heading in New Testament times. Luke 2, 36 and 38. There was a prophetess, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher.

That's not Judah and that's not Benjamin, right? So here you have someone, many centuries later, who knows what tribe they're from. And it's not one of the original Benjamin and Judah, it's one of the northern tribes. What else was there, present during the time of the temple, right across from where this reference to Anna is what else was there in the temple that allowed people to know who they were related to and what tribe they were from?

They were the records, exactly. And it was kept on the northern side of the inner temple building, the Naos. And on that northern side, they had all the records to record all the people from the different tribes. So if you got them recorded, are they lost? No. Could they record those when they came in for the sacrifices? They maintained a record of all the genealogies because it was important for the sake of, for example, inheritance. It was important to know who, because you had to have a legitimate genealogical line in order to be able to come into the temple.

He was born to heaven. When the babies were born, what did they do with them? Just like Mary and Joseph did, right? They take them to the temple. That's a good time to have it recorded. So you have all this stuff recorded. And so there was a part of the process already in place to bring the baby to the temple and have the ceremony going on there. And those records were there until 70 AD when the Romans finally just destroyed the temple records and everything that was in it burned.

And that's why Jews to this day, I would say with rare exception, have no idea what tribe they're from. The Lord knows, doesn't he? But the Jews themselves don't. We have perhaps some clues in the names, but they're at best clues. The name Cohen means priest, right? People who are priests had to be of the line of Levi, so you have people who are Jewish with the last name Levi, Levitt, and similar names. So there might be some clue about their lineage that way, but we don't have the original records that were quite evident and apparent.

Both male and female? Yes. Both male and female recorded. And something else in that too, the book of Hebrews says it is evident, present tense, that Jesus was from the line of Judah. Is. So what that tells you is the book of Hebrews was written before the records were destroyed. So anyway, interesting clue there. Continuing in Luke 2, 36-38, Page six there.

She, that is Anna, was advanced in years and lived with her husband seven years after her marriage. At the very moment she came up and began giving thanks to God and continued to speak to him for all those who are looking for the redemption of Jerusalem. Here she was of the tribe of Asher looking for the redemption of Jerusalem. In the middle of the page right below that, Acts 26, 6 and 7, I now am standing trial for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers, the promise to which our twelve tribes hope to obtain."

If ten were lost, why would he refer to twelve? Right? Our twelve tribes. hope to attain, and they earnestly serve God night and day. James 1.1. James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, and he doesn't claim it, but his brother, at least half-brother, to the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad. How many? Twelve. He's writing to them. He doesn't say to and to the other ten if you can find them. He says twelve. I'm writing this to all twelve tribes. So both Paul in Acts 26 and James make claim to 12 tribes present and accounted for and known right then.

Now there have been groups of Jews who have wandered over the earth for a long time. By New Testament times only one-third of the Jews lived in Israel. The other two-thirds lived in other places. The three primary areas were around Babylon. A lot of them didn't come back.

In Egypt, because Alexander the Great had made a deal with the Jews, says, hey, I need to have you guys move down to Alexandria, right? Of course, he's got to name the city after himself. And then a number of Jews were given a special tax break. No taxes, no income taxes for 10 years if you'll just move from Babylon up to the area around Ephesus. So three major groups there and then they would split out from there. Jews have scattered all over the place, all over the planet.

But that's exactly what Moses told him would happen. Read Deuteronomy 28. When you are here, you will wish you were there. When you are there, you will wish you were here. The land will spit you out if you do not obey. That's the figure of speech that's given there.

Yes. Well, if you look at that, the real dispersal, substantial dispersal began first with the Assyrian, you know, captivity, and then the Babylonian captivity, the Assyrians' philosophy of empire was scrambling populations. Mix them around. The Babylonian philosophy was bring them close to Babylon. Keep them right under your nose. And so you have that.

Then not all of them moved back, right? So a lot of them still remained there. Which, by the way, they stayed in the same language Aramaic, they stayed in the same language and so when the apostles were going around the world to spread the gospel, guess what one of the places they went to a lot? To the Jews over in Babylon, where they had been left from the Babylonian and Assyrian empires. Because they didn't have to learn any new language, they could just go right over to Babylon and tell them in the language that everybody already knew. And then the instance I was telling you about, Alexander the Great prior to 300 BC, the move up to, and that took a number of Jews to Alexandria, northern Egypt, the move over into the area around Ephesus around the year 200.

So that's another scattering. So you have some before with the Assyrians and the Babylonians and then you have another scattering with Alexander the Great and then one of Alexander the Great's empire pieces moved them into Ephesus. So that did a lot of scattering but then subsequent moves.

We went through church history some years back and the European nations kind of took turns kicking the Jews out. So they go here and go there and you can't be here and you can't be there When the Jews came over to the United States, the governor of New York wanted to tell them, no, go home. And there was so much protest that he had to back off. And America was the one place where they were welcomed and not rejected.

The other thing that we'll point out at the bottom of page six, there's the heading, the terms Jew, Israelite, and Hebrew are basically synonyms. They put an emphasis on slightly different things, but basically synonyms. Contrary to what at least some proponents of the ten lost tribes of Israel are prone to teach, there is no evidence in scripture that Jews refers only to those of the tribe of Judah, or that Israel refers only to the ten tribes of the Northern Kingdom. Christ was called King of the Jews as well as King of Israel. The two titles clearly appear to be synonyms.

Paul, who was of the tribe of Benjamin, said that he was a Jew, an Israelite, and of the nation of Israel, a Hebrew as well as a descendant of Abraham. We look on top of page 7. So here's Acts 21-39. Paul said, I am a Jew of Tarsus in Caecilia. Right below that, Romans 1-11. I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham of the tribe of Benjamin. He claims those without any hesitation or qualification. 2 Corinthians 11-22. Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I. No hesitation.

And by the way, how many of you run into this British Israelism? You run into that? You had maybe some contact with it. We had a Q&A study at our place, at our home, some years back. And we had a fellow who was really big into this. And he was highly disruptive. Stayed till almost midnight arguing.

And so they can get really upset about it because they view the Jews as frauds. And so to them it's a big deal and it's obviously quite racist as well. And it makes the northern Europeans or the British into God's chosen people. And then has you rejecting those who are Jews.

Yes, Art? Charles Armstrong sons and disavowed what his father taught. I'm sorry, I didn't catch that. Garnerted Armstrong. Oh, Garnerted Armstrong, yeah. Yeah, that's one of the groups that has taught British Israelism. It's also popular among the Masons. So that's another one. Pardon? Yes, right.

So anyway, it's a teaching that you may run into. Often, if you do run into it, the people who espouse this British Israelism are really rabid about it. that they're not mildly convinced of it and they will argue with all vigor. What they would claim is, yeah, British Israelism claims that the Britons or the people of Britain are... No. No. Yeah, well, I think there's other issues, too. DNA doesn't bear it out. And you have another good point, and that is, do they have the customs? No, they don't. It just doesn't fit. I mean, and obviously it doesn't work here. It doesn't match the scriptures. Norm?

When we were in Tunis, we saw the largest synagogue in all of Europe. And I was just reading the other day, when Tony Curtis was in his peak, he gave an enormous amount of money to the synagogue in Lutheran. Because that's where they got about half a million of the Jews that they And we were there, and you could see the gun towers still around, and they rebuilt the synagogue where you have to go through the synagogue, you know, a Saturday to get in. Unfortunately, this is just one case of treating the Jews badly. This whole teaching was one of the reasons, you know, you claim to be a Jew, you're not, you're a fraud, you know. It was one of the reasons for treating the Jews horribly.

Yes? When did the teaching start? Here's how it actually got its start. When we began to think, this is about you know, fourth century, when it began to be prominent to think that the church is spiritual Israel, and this goes along with the idea that the church has Christ as its King, because though Christ was born King of the Jews, the Jews rejected Him and therefore Christ is our King. And so since God hates the Jews because they rejected their king. We, as good Christians, should hate the Jews too.

And so this goes along with it, and essentially the... Yeah, we're spiritual Jews, and so that teaching is one of the teachings that is a part of this. In other words, it's a spiritualization that denies the Jews the validity of the place that they have, and basically cuts off the promise of Abraham, right? Because it cuts off the earthly connection. Then the other angle on it, and one that's more in recent centuries, is this one here, British Israelism, that has looked upon either the nations of Northern Europe, or in some cases just Britain itself, as being these are the Lost Ten Tribes moved to the north and So the British are actually the Jews. And that's more recent, but it's of the same ilk.

In other words, what strategy can I come up with for being anti-Semitic and rejecting God's people? Romans 11, ask the question. So has God rejected His people Israel? No. Clear answer. But what do they do instead? They make this whole theology out of rejecting God's people. And they'll do it either by, in a spiritual means, by saying the church is now spiritual Israel and God hates the Jews. And it goes along with Christ is my king and the church is the kingdom. That whole family of teachings fits together.

Or the more recent one, which is this British Israelism or Northern Europe consisting of the Ten Lost Tribes. And there's no scientific basis for it, and I think what's happened, it was developed before there was a full understanding of things like DNA and how do I trace the historical roots. So all it took was a name similarity and all of a sudden you've got a, you know, this is where they moved to kind of thing.

Other questions? OK, we probably, because we started late, my fault. We probably need to call it quits here. The buzzer rings three or four times, right? OK. Lord, we do thank you that you have made it clear. The promises that you made to the Jews, you most certainly intend to keep. And the blessings and promises you've made to us, you most certainly intend to keep as well. And we have no need to denigrate the Jews or call them frauds in order to have the blessings that we have. We're blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. And for that, we give you great thanks. In Jesus name, Amen.