Identification Truths Plus 2012

Okay, kind of set this up. I've been thinking this week that, how many of you are electronic geeks? All of you are, right? Probably shouldn't use the word geek. Normally, the way I run the class is what I call the Sinocratic method. I hand out questions. And next week when we get together, really what the class is, is we just go over the questions. And so if you have the time during the week, you can work on the questions yourself. And then it makes for a much more interesting class.

The most important thing to me in teaching any of these classes is whether you get it or not. I can be dumb, but you can't be. It matters to me whether you get it. And so the question seems to me to be a really good method of getting you engaged. If we have a class down here and for 45 minutes and I do all the talking, it's been a terrible class. You need to be engaged. So you need to be asking questions and thinking about what the subject matter is that we're going through. And don't be afraid. There's no such thing as a dumb question. I only ask the dumb ones. You don't. OK.

So that's kind of the way that I'm going to teach and the way that Courtney teaches too. Randy is new with us so he may or may not teach that way. But engagement, open forum is really what I like. If you come to my Bible study on Wednesday night, we sit down and study the Bible and everybody talks. It's great. The more talking there is, the greater the study is. So there's nobody who's ahead of anybody in this class, including me.

Now, the reason I mentioned electronics is that I was thinking normally what I do is pass out notebooks and then every week I will give you the question sheet, put it in the notebook. If you have the time and the wherewithal to answer the questions and you can keep track of them. And then when we're done with the class, you've got the class and you've got the information, which means. Theoretically you could teach it because you'll have all the information.

I can do it that way or the other way would be what? I'll pick all your email addresses and I'll email you the questions and you can ask me, send me emails during the week and ask me questions if you're working on it. I think we'll do both. Is that okay with you? I'll check and make sure that I have all of your email addresses and use mine's pretty easy. By the way, don't use the one that's in the directory. I'll give you another one. So OK, my email address. My email address is Emma.

R. D. D. O. Y. L. E. At Comcast.net. Two D's. It's really important. Some people send me an email. Don't put two days in there. So I don't get it. So now. So next week and at the end of class, I'll hand out the questions. Usually there's. ten to twelve of them.

They'll usually be verses that you can look up and they'll be tied to the verses. We are going to talk a lot about some of the other principles that you hear. That's why the class said identification plus, because there's a lot of elements that go into understanding identification that if you don't have the elements you really won't get the idea. So in a month from now, Randy will be teaching and he's going to be teaching position and condition.

Now, in order to get that fairly well settled down, we'll hand out to you a chapter out of one of Miles Stanford's books called The Principle of Position that you can read, take with you, and I'd give you the whole book if I could find them, but they're all combined in another volume now. We'll just Xerox them. It's only, I don't know what, six pages or something. Seven. And I'll email them to you if that's what you prefer. Or I'll just have them. We'll have them for you. And then you'll work off...

No one that I know of understood a position and condition better than Miles. I really think he understood what it meant for us to have a position. So we'll do... Today we're going to talk about the history of identification, how it came about, why the term, how it's from the early 1800s up to now. And then we'll talk position condition and we're going to go in and look at John chapter 17 and that's only there for the Lord Jesus said some really cool things in that prayer in John 17. that play into understanding identification. And it's one of those things where if the son asks the father for something, do you think there's ever going to be a chance that the father's going to say, well, let me think it over? No. And that's where it leads.

And then we'll spend several months on Romans 5, 6, 7, and 8, line by line, verse by verse, because that's where the mechanics of identification are. So that probably gets a 5, 6, 7, and 8. I recommend that if you do have a Newell's commentary on Romans, you can read it. If you don't have one, they're not too expensive. You can find them on the web.

The next section will be on the issue of grace. And we will spend four to six weeks on guessing on what grace is what it's not, how it's implemented, and it fits. Because if you start with identification, position, condition, do through Romans, then grace has to be part of that. Because all of what we're going to learn in Romans is implemented by grace alone, not by you doing spiritual push-ups. Then the last part of the year will be the person and work of the Holy Spirit because we need to know who's going to implement the whole thing. It's Him. And He operates under grace and so we'll spend however many weeks studying the person and work of the Holy Spirit.

So when you said identification plus, I suppose I could have said all of that standing up there. So there's going to be a lot in the class. The second issue is this class does not start and finish questions today. If we get through here, we're going to pick up here next week. See that? Because, again, it's based on the premise that you get it, that you understand it, that you own it by the time we're done. So we don't need to go fast. We're not going to have a final exam in December. and we got to get through the material. No, we don't. We don't need to do that. So we'll go however pace that the Spirit of God lets us go. Okay?

So Courtney and I have taught together for a few years now and now with Randy. We don't have any trouble picking up in the middle. Like, you know, some Sunday I'll teach for 15 minutes and then Courtney stands up because we hadn't finished what we were going to do last week. I think that's really important because I want to get away from the academic idea of Sunday school when it comes to learning these truths. Because these change lives. That's what they do.

Okay? Questions? Anybody? And Courtney promised only to bring donuts and coffee today. That's right. So when's it going to be next week? Here's the coffee and there's the donuts. He's only been able to give one away. So I think that's pretty much kind of how we're going to go and what we're going to do. We'll have I've got a roster of the teachers through the first six or eight weeks and I'll try to finish more of that up and then if I have all your email addresses I'll send it out to you so you know who's going to teach. See what I'm hoping happens is that by the end of or somewhere in the middle of the class it isn't going to matter to you who's teaching because you're going to be engaged. Sometimes it's me. They have a little bit like some things that we have questions about. They all have this. Yes, we have a hole in our head. There is. Yes, absolutely.

I mean, I think the thing the thing about the identification truths are such radical information. You know, you think about this. Here's somebody who gets saved at some point in their life, and they're really doing whatever they can to be as good a Christian as they possibly can, and then some idiot like me comes up to them and says, do you know that you died with Christ? I mean, that's a huge pill to swallow.

I'm standing here, I've been here. What do you mean? I don't remember dying. Did I? Answer, yes I did. Well, how stupid is it to say, did I really die? Great question. Did you? Did you really die with Christ? Answer, yeah, you did. And the Word of God will lay it out very succinctly that you did. And if you did die, as an example, on Thursday, we have this memorial service for Bud Tracy. Did he really die the previous Wednesday? Yeah, he did. He really did. And what was all that about? When he died, what happened to him? Well, his spirit and soul left his body, so his body became at room temperature and didn't move anymore. What happened to his spirit and his soul? Where did it go? Well, I can understand that as a human being, because people are dying all the time. But how do I understand the fact that I'm still walking around and the Word of God says that I died with Christ? How do you explain that?

That's a much bigger pill to swallow for faith than Christ dying for me. See that? So that's why it's really important because if you get it and understand it and it becomes part of what you believe, it'll change your life dramatically because you'll see things totally different. Bud Tracy sees things totally different today than he did last Wednesday afternoon. Is it correct to say that your spirit died with Christ or not really?

Okay, I'm going to pick on you. That's a wonderful question for you. But, you know, somebody might think, well, I can't ask a question like that. What you're going to discover is that you're going to have to deal with the word death. What does the word death mean? Separation. separate one thing from another.

We say that Bob Tracy is dead because some separation process happened. What happened? His soul and his spirit left his body so his body stopped moving. So he's dead. Dead to what? If it's separation, you have to figure out dead to something, from something, okay?

So when I died with Christ on the cross, did I cease to exist? No. Did I, for just a second there, did I cease to exist? No. Did any part of me actually go through the process of separation? Answer, yes it did. But we're going to discover what I was united to before, I'm no longer united to again, now. And so I can say my spirit was totally separated from the whole realm of death. My soul is being separated on an ongoing basis from the realm of death. So my spirit gets enlifed, so to speak. It doesn't go through the process of ceasing to exist and then coming back into existence. You get an empty notebook.

That's how we start. I think the other thing with the class too, and why I like this class is because all the other stuff that is taught from Paul is based on the identification. It's hard to understand when I've gone to a couple of the other classes. Some of the questions that come up are based on identification. Unless you understand the identification, I think, as I've talked to Mike, that's why the grace part, I don't think you can understand grace until you understand identification. And so as we go through the identification, grace becomes more evident of what that is and how it operates and all that. Just listening to some of the other classes, identification is kind of the foundation for everything else that Paul I hear Vern teach upstairs on the main service. I'm wondering how many people understand the crowd that did the cross. If you don't understand identification, I think you're left kind of, what is he talking about?

If you look at the way the Spirit of God put the New Testament together, you notice that you have the four Gospels, which are pretty much Old Testament information. you have the book of Acts, which is a transitional book, and then the first book of Christianity is the book of Romans, right? And by the time you get to chapter 6, you have the identification truths succinctly and precisely laid out. From that point forward, through all of the rest of Paul's epistles, there's an assumption by Paul that you read Romans 6. If you've never read Romans 6 and don't understand Romans 6, by the time you get to Corinthians, Colossians, Galatians, Ephesians, you really don't know what he means sometimes when he makes these statements. Because he makes them from this side of the cross, not that side. And even Peter and John could say, boy, that Paul, some of the stuff he writes, I think he's right, but I'm not sure I grab it all.

2,000 years later, Jesus died way back then and we were with Christ. How does that work? Yeah, how does that work? You understand the question? In other words, I was saved on December 7, 1977 at 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Now, how can I think that I died with Christ 2,000 years before then? You want to answer? We've had this discussion so many times. This is a good discussion. Here's the deal.

When the Lord Jesus is on the cross, by himself he's paying the penalty for your sins and my sins and all the sins of the world. And he's doing that because God demanded it. His righteousness demanded that the penalty be paid. But then you have to ask the question, what did he do about the sinner? Did He just forgive you, the sinner? Well, the answer is no. And if He puts you on the cross with Him, how can He do that without taking you back in time? He does it by position. He positions you in Christ, and that's why we're going to talk a lot about position. He does it positionally. And it isn't that He had you in mind, it's more than that.

The first verse we're going to study in Romans is Romans 5.12.

Romans 5.12 says that by one man, sin entered the world. Who's that guy? And death came in by sin, so death passed upon all men. Why? Because all men sinned in Adam. Now wait a minute. When did you sin in Adam? No, not right. Not according to that verse. When did you sin in Adam?

That's right. That's right. That's a position. When were you crucified with Christ? When he was crucified. That's a position. of it, right? Because the resurrection is the whole deal. Oh yeah, how about that? Because otherwise we'd just be depressed all the time. So, the kind of discussion that just took place the last ten minutes, that's what we want every week. Every week. Her question was perfect.

Okay, now you're going to have to endure a history lesson. okay identification history and I want to go back to 1483 you know who was born in 1483? Martin Luther no Martin Luther and he was a monk and we're talking now what over 500 years 500 so he's the one that through the study of the Word of God, he figured out Romans 1.17, that it is written that just shall live by faith. Because if you know anything, any religious history, if you don't know, go up to Vern's class because you'll learn it up there. You'll recognize that the truth of salvation by grace through faith was not, nobody, I shouldn't say nobody, some people knew it, but not publicly known until our friend Martin Luther, okay? He published on the door of a church, what town was that? Wittenberg. That it is written the just shall live by faith and he laid it out.

Well, you have to understand in those days there was this probably the most powerful group of people on the earth was the Catholic Church. And if you went against them, you know, they didn't They didn't just scorn you or make you feel bad like politicians do today.

They put you to death. They didn't mess around with you. So it was a pretty gutsy thing for him to do that. Well, what happened was that people began to buy it. And if you look at the history back then, Martin Luther would have been sent to the gallows if He hadn't been protected, he was a German, protected by the German princes who took care of him.

They wanted to get a break away from the Pope's authority anyway. But what God did is He used that circumstance to bring two interesting elements back into the discussion of humanity and that is salvation is something God did and He did it via the cross and your entering into it is by faith alone, not by works. So, since that time, the world has never been the same. Never. Since that time, 500 years. And from that came the thing called the Reformation, which was a deliverance from a works-based Christianity, and the things like justification were recovered.

Now, I grew up a Catholic, and I went to Catholic schools 16 years, right? And we used to, when I got into high school, And in the college, our religion class was not so much history as it was trying to shove the Catholic doctrine down your throat. There were groups called Anabaptists, Huguenots, and from the Catholic standpoint they were heretics. They were groups that needed to be snuffed out because they were teaching anti-Catholic doctrine.

And that's what they would do. Wars would start. But you know what? Those were the people That God, through the centuries, that God saved the information. They were the true believers. The Anabaptists. You know why they called them Anabaptists? Because they didn't believe in infant baptism. And you know how they got rid of them? They took them down to the river and said, you don't believe in baptism? They drowned them all. Or tried to. The French Huguenots, same way.

So, the thing is, is that what Martin Luther started and was picked up, and not necessarily for spiritual reasons, more political, was born anew in Christ, that you were accepted in Christ, you were eternally secure in Christ, and that you were positioned in Christ. That's basically what he was, he said it was futile to seek salvation by any other method. We have to understand at the time, I mean that's, you know, that's like being a Democrat and becoming a Republican.

It's not unheard of. Because they were all based on works. All based on works. That's exactly right. So, now that's a big deal, don't you think? For at least in the civilized world, the fact that salvation is now being presented. on a basis of grace and all you have to do to be saved is believe, that's huge. If it's never been part of what's ever been taught anywhere, and not only that, the Catholic Church was so against it that if you didn't buy into it, they put you to the stake. But, that's as far as it went. That's as far as the understanding went.

And let me ask you this, is it enough to know Let's call them the birth truths. And what are the birth truths? If I was going to use the term birth truth, what would it mean? That you have to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That he did what? That he died for your sins and rose again on the third day. Died for your sins and was buried and rose again. Those are the birth truths. And you could say that included in that is eternal security. Okay? You're eternally safe because you're betting your salvation and your eternal security on what Christ did. Okay?

Question. Is that enough information for you to start to grow spiritually? What do you think, Luke? The answer is no, it's not. It's not enough. It's not enough information for one to begin to grow in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus. And why would you think it isn't? You've got to think in this class. Why wouldn't it be enough? Because you have to be involved in the Holy Spirit to know where to begin. Okay. That tells you where Christ is, but it doesn't tell you that you're with him. It doesn't tell you that that your relationship with him goes somewhere else. Okay, not bad. That's good.

What's your biggest problem? Sin, right? So you find out that your sins have been forgiven. Hallelujah. Good news, right? But how about you, the sinner? What about that dirty rat? You know, I'm saved. My sins are forgiven, but I'll be darned. When nobody's looking, I'm sinning. And if Jesus gave His life for me, I wake up in the next morning and I feel terrible about that. Because I keep sinning. It's like I keep sticking them back up on the cross because I'm having to go to Him all the time and confess the sins. He's less and less happy with me, right?

No. So God did something other than just forgive you your sins. What did he do? Justification. Huh? Justification. No more than that. He placed us in Christ. He got rid of the sinner. That's an awful bold statement, isn't it? Here's what he did. Through the writings of, starting with a guy like John Darby, he began to explain that God did something about the producer of the sins, your sin nature. Up until that time there wasn't very much information. You could go back and read Madame Guyon, a French lady who kind of had it, but not really. It was John Darby who began to publish information about what God did about the one who produces the sins.

Now the best example I know of, and this is, if you guys want a book list to read, here's a book you can put on there. It's called The Normal Christian Life by Watchman Nee. And here's how he explained it. He said, most of Christianity, once you're saved, it's like you have a lot of whiskey bottles in your town and you spend all your time looking for those bottles so you can break them.

And you think that if I can break them and dump all the whiskey, I can solve the whiskey problem. Did it solve the whiskey problem? Answer no, because on the edge of town was a factory producing the whiskey. And until you deal with the factory, you're not ever going to get rid of the bottles. God dealt with the factory.

That's what identification is about. And that information is the information that is the basis for spiritual growth. See that? Does that make sense? Any questions about that? Is that a radical idea? Well, I think when he says the factory is like the edge of town, it kind of makes it seem like it's something that's over there. But it's kind of like we're the We're the bottle and we're the factory too. We can just make our own. Yeah. We don't even have to go outside. That's right. You've got that little factory working right in there. That's right.

So if that's true, it wouldn't seem that gracious to me if God left you in that position. Would it to you? Because he didn't do the whole job then. You understand that? If you grew up in any of the contemporary denominations, Lutheranism, Presbyterian, Methodist, you got the first part usually. You got the salvation part.

But they never talked about the second part. One, they didn't know it. Two, if they did know it, they didn't want to go that far because the participants would get too free and we can't have them too free. Got to have a little law to keep them in line, right?

So, Luther was a good example, little birth truths and no growth truths, resulting in what? If you have little birth truths and no growth truths, what kind of a religion do you have? Law-based. If Reformation-oriented Reformed churches, like John went to Denver Christian, which is Dutch Reform, Birth truths, no growth truths, equals lots of law.

I was counseling with a guy from one of John's classmates' parents. We started down through the Book of Romans. We'd go to soccer practice and we'd sit in the car and we had a Bible study every week. He was really loving what we were doing until we got to Romans 6 and it says, he that is dead is freed from the law. He shut down. He said, no way. We're not free from the law. We have to be under the law. And that was the end of the, we never met after that. See how powerful the law is and how powerful to keep that factory in play. And all the law does is contribute finances, so to speak, to the sin producer. That's what it does.

So, even though through Luther the justification by faith was recovered, they never maintained that the old man was crucified. Never. I don't know if it's because they didn't know it, or that they got so excited about what they knew in justification by faith they didn't go any farther, they thought that's all there was. but they never talked about it so it was right for them to refuse the legalism of Catholicism but the retention of that which the laws could be made the old man was and is the weakness of the Reformation the trouble with the Reformation is that they kept the old man and if you keep the old man guess where you're going to be you're going to have the law books under your arms because you're always going to be asking yourself the question what can I do What can I do to stop the sin? Now, our friend William Newell wrote that almost all theology of various creeds of Christendom date back to the Reformation, which went triumphantly to the end of Romans 5. And so far as theological development or presentation of truth was concerned, it stopped there. Consequently, you must not regard yourself as bound to accept All that legal doctrine of sanctification, which has been and still is predominantly the sine qua non of orthodox belief. He wrote that in 1936, it's still true today.

Probably more true today than it was then. Could you read that again? Do I have to? Yeah. Almost all of the theology of the various creeds of Christendom date back to the Reformation. fifteen, whatever, which went triumphantly to the end of Romans 5. Do you understand that part? In other words, their whole religion was based on Romans 1-1 through Romans 5. Which is?

The doctrine of the two men, justification by faith, but no identification yet. So far as theological development or presentation of truth is concerned, it stopped there. Consequently, you must not regard yourself as bound to accept all the legal doctrine of sanctification. Let's define terms. What does sanctification mean? Smartest kid in the room. Nine years old, he knows what it means.

It means to be set apart. What the Methodist viewpoint of sanctification really is, is to work as hard as you can to get as holy as you can as fast as you can. That's not what it means. It means to be set apart. And if you understand what set apart means, again, it begins to change the equation on how you look at it. Catholicism is a works-based program that you don't even know if you've done all the works if it's enough. Is it kind of like God setting us apart versus us trying to set ourselves apart?

You get the star, that's exactly what it is. So it's still predominantly the Sin Quanon of Orthodox belief. You can go, the third Reformed Church is at 2400 South, Dexter I think, we're at 2400 South, Holly. Go right over to their church and ask them what the Sin Quanon of their doctrine is, you know what they're going to tell you? It means the basic foundation of everything they believe is the law. And they're over there teaching it right now.

Now identification truths were introduced about 350 years after Martin Luther by John Darby. John Darby lived from 1800 to 1882 and he was a actually became an Irish Episcopal priest. That sounds like an oxymoron. Irish Anglican Church and he was a priest and he was a lawyer and he set out, he thought at first that he might try to reform as he began to understand these truths that he would reform the Anglican Church but then it wasn't long after that he figured out there's no reforming that group. There's no reforming any denomination.

Again, I keep referring to my history as a Catholic. I know plenty of guys that have come to Christ that are now back in the Catholic Church because they like the pomp and circumstance and all that, and they think they're going to reform them. Listen, the Catholic Church is the great historical amoeba. It absorbs everybody. They're trying to do it to Islam right now.

Two years after his ordination, Darby resigned his position as a priest because of his spiritual conviction and he knew better to try to reform the church. Instead he started out to make all things new. So here is this guy, one guy by himself, here are some of the Bible doctrines that have been formulated and clarified by John Darby and there are a dozen of them. the full assurance of salvation, the complete acceptance by the father in his beloved son, the absolute distinction between Israel and the church and therefore between law and grace, the basic dispensations in the word or, and we'll talk about dispensations later, the pre-tribulational, pre-millennial rapture of the church. Everybody understand what that is? that the church gets raptured before the tribulation and before the millennial kingdom.

Eight, our identification with the Lord Jesus in his death unto sin, his burial, his resurrection, and his ascension. He was the first one in the English language to begin to talk about this. I think that God used John Darby as so influentially, especially in the English language and actually all the European languages, more so than any other man in history other than Paul. Our deliverance from the reign of sin and the old man via Romans 6. Our freedom from the principle of law via Romans 7. Our position in the Lord Jesus at the Father's right hand. and God's purpose to conform us to the image of his son. Now all of those things are familiar with us, aren't they?

But they weren't familiar when he started talking about them. Now, so what has he set up? He has set up now a theological system that goes against what the norm is. All of the denominations, they're not buying into anything he's having to say. Would you? If you were the head of the First Methodist Church in Dublin, Ireland, and this derby comes out with his theology and it goes totally against what you're thinking, you're immediately in opposition to him. Well, those of you who have a cursory understanding of identification, grace, and position, you don't get any opposition, do you? You must not. Sure you do. Sure you do.

Darby started this thing called the Exclusive Plymouth Brethren. And they have these things called assemblies. And Courtney is a good product of one of those. So if you want to know what the assembly will do for you, look at him. Don't do that. And he walked around Ireland and then into England and ended up in Europe and he started these, they didn't call them churches, they called them assemblies. And 1830 to 1845, 15 years, probably was their golden era. And more than likely was the best example of a functioning body of Christ on the earth since Acts. as best you can tell. They did it right.

Problem is, a cancer began to filter in. Now, think about this. If you're Satan, and I'm not going to blame it all on Satan, but if you're Satan and you want to snuff these boys out, how are you going to do it? Well, you don't have enough firepower to kill all of them, so what you're going to do is you're going to go after them internally. And that's what happened.

They had a whole system set up where they would meet and they had a system of elders and teaching elders and they would teach the Word of God and they were the keepers of these identification truths. But they also had some rituals like they share the Lord's table. If you didn't come from another assembly with good credentials, they wouldn't let you share the Lord's table with them. And what began to happen is they began to be more interested in how they met, rather than why they were meeting.

Do you understand that? They got really interested in what they did, rather than why they were there. And that is a big red flag in most churches, this place. We need to be aware, why are we meeting? What are we here to do, rather than how are we working this out? Don't you sit in my seat. They went wrong with their name. That's just what I was going to say. Exclusive. They were more concerned with their exclusivity.

And what they did in order to keep the bad guys out, they split into the Open and Closed Brethren. Well, the Closed Brethren kind of died out, guess why? The Open Brethren have lost the truce. And the best example of that was, how many years ago now, 20? the Bellevue Bible Chapel, which was a brethren assembly, called up Hal Malloy and said, can you come over and teach us the identification truths? You would have thought, wait a minute, aren't you the keepers of those things? They didn't know him. They didn't know him.

So, why you get together, why we meet as believers, is way more important than how we're doing it You see that? So the focus on the truth and the doctrine is really important, way more important than how we perform the function. That was the demise. Now once it started to demise, God brought in this next group called the Keziks. K-E-W-I-C-K-S.

And they, what they did was that they had these conferences that were a week long and they'd have them in the summertime and they would attempt in a week's time to teach what we're going to spend a year learning. That sounds pretty cool, doesn't it? I mean, I can go to one of these Keswick things in a week's time, saturate myself with these doctrines and I'll have them all. Wow, am I going to be smart. What's the problem with that?

It's all head knowledge. You walk out of there and what you learn positionally takes the spirit some time to work out conditionally in your life. So you have all this knowledge, so what happens? You end up six months down the road cratering because you can't get all the pieces together because guess what happens? The factory cranks up again and sins are being produced and wait a minute, if I'm dead to sin, how come?

You know, so they actually exist up until this day. There's a group, somebody sent me an email this week. I sent it over to Vern and asked him about it. There's a group in Windsor, Colorado that say that they are an offshoot of the Keswiks. And so I went to their website and I read almost all of it.

And you know what's missing in their website? What do you think? I know this is a question I'm pulling out of the air, but what do you think they're missing? Yes, exactly what they're missing. They're missing the cross. Their whole program is to try to copy what the Keziks did without the cross. This is how you should be as a believer, but they don't tell you how you got to be that person via the cross. So if you take the cross out of the equation, what have you done? You've taken grace out of it and you've put the onus on you to perform. So the person that sent me the email, I'm going to have to give them the bad news this week. They probably don't want to send their kids up there.

The real weakness of the Keswick movement, at first it was terrific, but the real weakness was they kept having more and more conferences. They didn't have enough good teachers. So what they started to do was they started to ask people that were high-profile teachers in Christendom to come and teach. And the last time they had one in 1976 on the East Coast someplace, guess who the teachers were? Billy Graham, you know people like that that don't understand identification haven't got a clue. And so that was the death of the Keswick movement pretty much. Now the next thing that God did to maintain the truths there was through literature. And there were men from The one great thing about the Brethren is that they wrote a lot. These guys were prolific. They wrote... John Darby, if you ever want to buy the collected works of John Darby, it's this long. You wouldn't want to buy it anyway, it's boring reading. Because about 25% of it is doctrine and 75% is apologetics defending the doctrine.

That's okay. But they wrote these truths down. And so there's Darby and Stoney and Kelly and Coates and Rutherford and all these guys. They just did a wonderful job of writing this stuff down. The problem we have in 2012 is that when you pick up John Darby, he wrote in 1850. It's almost like a different language. Now this is a good example of what I told you. I plan to have all this done today.

But I don't. I'll have it done next week. Who did not get a notebook? One, two, three. Okay, I've got more back there. I'll just go get them. And I don't know if I've got enough questions. I'll send you one. These are the questions for, maybe we'll get to them next week. Maybe we won't. But they have to do with the verses and the very first question I'm going to ask you is why did God create Why did he do that? I can get more made. Oh perfect, I think I got enough. So I'll get more made and before we leave today, see me and I'll get you a notebook. I've got a bunch of them back there. So I need three or more. Okay, let's close.

Father Harvey, thank you for your word and We are thankful for these servants of yours who, it was their life's work to bring these truths back to us that we might, through your word and through their writings, come to know the Lord Jesus more intimately, to be conformed to his image. Father, we thank you. We pray in your son's precious name. Amen.