Buried and Risen in Him

Okay, Romans chapter 6. I think that we're going to kind of lay it out to see if we can get through verses 1 through 4 this morning as you see in your handouts. If we don't get that far, we don't get that far and when the buzzer stops us, we'll just stop because it probably would be appropriate if we went up and heard Vern's message and didn't keep sitting down here and studying through the Book of Romans. I think Vern would probably appreciate that. So we'll see how far we get this morning. So let's just start off by reading through Romans chapter 6 and let's read through verses 1 through four. And so it starts off by saying, what shall we say then?

Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be. How shall we who die to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into his death? Therefore, We have been buried with him through baptism into death and ordered that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

So that's what we're going to look to the Lord for this morning. So just by way of introduction, I wanted to just bring to our attention that Romans 3 verse 20, which is the middle of verse 20. What's going on? Nothing bad, just didn't like to move it down a little bit too loud. Romans chapter 3 and verse 20 and through chapter 5 and verse 21. We've been talking about justification for months. Picking it up in chapter 3 verse 20.

And it's been just a great section of scripture there to learn what God has done for us to justify us by faith. So we're going to move into chapter 6 today and for the next several weeks to come we'll be in chapter 6 and it's going to deal more with the idea of sanctification. So we're moving. from the justification truths on into chapter 6, which is going to be talking about the sanctification truths. And so Christ's death for us, which we saw chapter 3, 4, 5, the justification deals with the penalty of sin, where we were forgiven, where we were redeemed, all those different things that we saw true in chapters 3 through 5.

So, His death for us, justification, deals with the penalty of sin, where chapter 6 in the Sanctification Truce talks about our death with Christ, and it deals with the power of sin, where we're going to be talking a lot about getting to the root of the sin issue, which is so important.

It's very, very critical for us as the believers to understand how do we deal with the root of the sin nature? How are we free from the daily power and the daily influence of the sin nature in our lives? If we're not looking to the truths of Romans 6 to deal with the root of the sin nature, then we're going to be left in self-effort, trying to overcome the power of sin in our lives on our own effort. We're going to be, therefore, stuck in legalism, trying to overcome the power of sin in our lives that way, and it's going to be very discouraging. It will be one that will not work, won't be successful, will try and try and try to have victory over the power of sin through self-effort, therefore legalism, but it will never succeed. But if we look to the truths of Romans 6 and these identification truths of sanctification, this is God's answer to the sin problem. This is God's answer to how to overcome the sin nature. God works, doesn't he? God does what he says and therefore we will be able to be free from the power of sin in our lives.

I was talking with Hal a couple days ago. We got together a couple times. and looked at this passage of scripture. It was just great. Number one, spending time with him, and number two, studying God's Word together. He brought something to my remembrance, and you see it there in your notes, and I think it's well worth reminding all of us about. You've heard Hal say this very thing before.

What are these identification truths? Therefore, what's it all about? I think we need to remember that ultimately it's all for the glory of God. It's not necessarily for ourselves, although it does impact us greatly, it influences our lives in relation to being free from the power of sin on a daily basis, but ultimately it's for the glory of God. That God would be able to declare His glory, to reveal His glory, to share His glory, and therefore that He would ultimately be glorified. Let's kind of, if we can keep that at the forefront of our minds as we go through these things, and I'll say it cautiously, but not get self-centered about the identification, if that makes sense. Because they do benefit us greatly. And we're going to see that as we go through these in the next few weeks. But it's very easy for us to almost get self- focused and self-centered, what these things have done for me, how they benefit me, and therefore we lose sight of the ultimate purpose of how is it that God is glorified.

I think back to the creation of Adam and Eve. The purpose there was that they would glorify God and to enjoy Him forever. That was one of the reasons that God created mankind, to enjoy fellowship and that they could glorify God. Well, that was really messed up very early on when they ate of the fruit and they received the sin nature. Therefore, the ability for them to glorify God was interrupted. So now God has brought it back full circle that he's worked in such a way that mankind can now glorify God.

One of the many things he's done for us to be able to glorify God is that he has separated us from the sin nature and given us a new nature, therefore we can bring forth glory to God. That's the big picture that I want us to keep at the forefront of our mind. Just kind of an illustration for us as we get going.

Everybody that's born into the world, is born into the world with sin nature. exception of Adam and Eve, they weren't born, they were created into a state of innocence. Christ also, being conceived by the Holy Spirit, he didn't have a sin nature. Everybody else though, when they're born into the world, is born into the world with a sin nature. They have no other option but to be controlled by the sin nature.

Some of the Galatians talks about the deeds of the flesh, anxiety, lust, anger, materialism, selfishness. We could make a list of 500 different things that characterize the sin nature, characterize the deeds of the flesh. The point is, how are we going to get rid of the deeds of the flesh? All of us struggle with it, don't we? There's nobody in this room that doesn't struggle with that fruit there, those deeds of the flesh. How are we going to stop the production of those deeds? Anxiety, worry, anger, fear. How are we going to be able to stop those things in our lives?

Some people, and probably the majority of people, say, well, if I just confess, and confess, and confess, and confess, therefore, it will all be taken care of. The Bible talks about confession. I'm not going to try to put down confession. Confession is biblical, and confession is proper and is right. But confession is not going to deal with the root of the sin problem. Confession is not going to to bring to an end the deeds of the flesh or the sin nature in our lives.

My point is we can pick this fruit off and we can pick this fruit off and we can pick this fruit off and we can pick the fruit and pick the fruit, but what's it going to keep doing? More is going to keep coming. More is going to keep coming. We lived in Virginia for a long time, and Rach and I were married in the middle of this apple orchard in September, and it was a great time. The trees were full of apples. We could pick all the apples off of the tree, but in the springtime, it's going to bring forth more apples.

That's not going to get to the root of the issue. The only way to stop those deeds, or to stop that fruit of the flesh or the sin nature from coming, is to get to the root. If I were to take a chainsaw and whack down that apple tree next door to my house and then dig up that root and pour it and then just lie it on the ground, when the springtime comes, is that tree going to be producing apples? No, absolutely not. Why? because I got to the root of the issue. I got to the root of that tree, and therefore it's going to stop producing the fruit. So that's what we're talking about.

Romans chapter 6 and these truths of sanctification and of identification, they get to the root of this in nature, and that's really what we what we want to know, that's really what we want to have be real in our lives, so that we can be free from the influence and control and slavery of sin in our lives, and therefore God can be glorified.

So, through the cross, we have been given a new nature, we've been given the very life of Christ, and I kind of describe it as a good tree, and it has good roots with Christ as the source. We're going to talk about that as we go through this Class this morning. Galatians also talks about the fruit of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self-control, gentleness, things of that nature. So, through self-effort, through trying to suppress the sin nature, through trying to develop better habits, things of that nature, will never ever gain us victory over that fruit. But through the cross, as we're going to see in Romans chapter 6, and through our identification with Him, as we're going to see in detail, we've been separated from this, and we've been given this.

Therefore, it's possible for us to enjoy the fruit of the Spirit. It's a practical question, which tree are we abiding in? We'll talk about that more as we get on down the road. I hope that illustration helps. It's one that has helped me a lot through the years. Let's look at verse 1.

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? that is opening up here in chapter 6 and verse 1 is really in a response to what was stated back in chapter 5 at the end of verse 20 and Josiah covered these verses for us last week. So look at chapter 5 and 20b, it says, But where sin increased, grace abounded All the more. So the question is, what are we to say? Are we to continue in sin so that grace might increase?

And shall we say, are we really to be saying this? Is this what we are really to be thinking? Or is this what we are really to be saying? And he's asking that question in light of Paul's statement. Paul's asking that question anticipating what they might be thinking in light of chapter 5 and verse 20b. Are we to be saying this? Are we really to be thinking this?

Are we really to be saying that we shall continue in sin so that grace might increase? And this is simply a rhetorical question. And this question is a question that doesn't really need to be asked because the answer is so obvious. I don't need to be asking the question.

Shall we continue, is the idea, is should we continue in sin? It carries with it the idea, it's a verb, a subjunctive, present active, and the subjunctive carries the idea of something might happen or it might not happen. So should we be thinking this way in light of what was stated in chapter 5 and the end of verse 20? So, shall we or should we continue in sin? The word there, in, is in the dative case, and some of your Bibles have probably translated that, shall we continue the sin? And some have probably translated it, shall we continue in sin? And most have gone with the word in. That's the reason that they come up with that, is because it's in the dative case there.

The idea is, shall we continue, or should we continue and sin, that grace may increase, or that it might increase? So the wrong thinking coming from chapter 5, verse 20, is that if there's this much sin, then there's this much grace. And if there's this much sin, then there's this much grace. And if there's this much sin, there's this much grace. So therefore, let me sin all the more so that I can get more of God's grace.

And obviously, Paul objects to that thinking in the next verse when he opens up verse 2 where he says, God forbid. Pretty straightforward. pretty clear, but the way that he's writing is that he's anticipating one's response. Obviously, that's not what Paul is intending or what God is intending, that we would continue in sin so that grace might increase. Okay, verse 2.

So, he looks at this and he says, no, may it never be. So, shall we continue in sin so that grace is going to increase? No way. May it never be or God forbid. And so, this is an expression of rejecting a false conclusion. So, it's an expression that's rejecting a false conclusion and that comes out to us because we see that is optative, and the false conclusion is that man should continue in sin so that grace might increase, and Paul is saying, no way, no way, absolutely not. That is not God's intent, and that is not what I meant by, that was not the intent by what I wrote in chapter 5 and verse 20. He was just trying to communicate that God's grace supersedes, superabounds man's sinfulness, which is a very important point that Josiah covered for us last week. May it never be, God forbid, as the King James communicates it to us, so how shall we who died to sin still live in it?

So let me ask you this question, who is the we referring to? What's that? That's right. Believers. How shall we, believers... Believers are the ones who have died to sin. Unbelievers haven't died to sin. They're enslaved. They're stuck until they trust the Lord as their personal Savior. They're stuck in the sin nature. That's the only option they have, is to be a slave to sin.

So, we there, meaning believers, who have died to sin, how shall we, who have died to sin, still be living in it? So, Paul's asking, how can we continue in sin If we, or being that, we have died to it. So, let me ask you this question, what does it mean that we have died to sin? That's an incredible statement that he's bringing out here in verse 2, that we as believers have died to sin. What are your thoughts, what are your initial thoughts before we unpack this thing here in the class that we've died to sin?

Bob, you have a thought? Yeah, sure. That's right, yeah. So Bob's pointing out that it's a positional truth, that we've died, we've been separated from the sin nature. Sure, right on. Any other thoughts? Okay, so we're going to talk about this, the idea that we've died or that we are dead. Positional truth, as Bob just pointed out. It's indicative and it's an heiress active. This is an action. It's a reality that happened in the past.

It's not something that we're waiting for to happen in the future. It's not saying, well, after you've been a believer for 15 years, then you will have died to sin. No, this is something that happened the very moment that we trusted the Lord as our Savior. Praise the Lord for that. Because if that hasn't happened, then we're still stuck in slavery to the sin nature. But it's already happened, and it's happened in the past, and it has continual results in our lives. This is a permanent action which cannot be undone, and therefore, if it can't be undone, it can't be redone. It's extremely important to understand the foundation of these positional truths.

So when did believers die to sin? When did that happen? When Christ died on the cross. We'll see how we were with him, how we were baptized with him, the idea of immersion being placed into him. We'll unpack that here in just a few more minutes. So this verse does not tell believers to die to sin, but tells believers that we have already died to sin. Which is critical, because that makes it something that's already happened, that we can believe in, that we can actively put our faith and our trust in, and therefore rest in, and walk in, day by day. So how did this happen? What was the process that happened that made this possible for us? We're going to see that here as we continue on into verse 3, the idea that we've been baptized or that we have been identified into His death. Before salvation, people can only be slaves to sin. They have no other option. We've mentioned that twice already this morning. Now that relationship has been broken and believers no longer have to be slaves to sin.

So what does died mean in this context? Death means separation. This is a critical point for us to grasp, to try to get our get our arms and our minds around, that death here means separation from the power of sin. This is a positional truth. Positionally separated from the power of sin in our lives. It's important to point out that the sin nature was not eradicated, but believers have been positionally separated from it. There's lots of people at different camps that are going to say, well, your sin nature has been eradicated and it's been completely put out of business. means separation. That leads to lots of other problems if you take that interpretation, but that's incorrect. Death here means separation from the sin nature. The sin nature has not been eradicated.

So the sin nature can still try to influence us, but we no longer have to give in to it because we have been positionally separated from it. All of us still struggle with the power of sin in our lives, but when that comes into our life, we do not have to give in to that temptation. We do not have to give in to the temptation or the influence or the power of the sin nature because we have been positionally separated from it. We know it. and we believe in it, and we walk by faith in that, and we don't have to give in to that.

Therefore, we're walking in the Spirit, and we're walking in our new nature with Christ, and therefore the fruit of the Spirit, the second tree that we saw on the screen, is going to be what's manifested in our life, not the deeds of the flesh or the first tree. This is getting a lot to application about how does this whole thing flush out, and we're going to get to that more as we continue on, particularly the end of verse 4 says, walk in newness of life. I know this would be an area where we could stop and open up for a lot of discussion about how does it practically flush out, but I want to continue on and maybe hold some of those thoughts to the end of verse 4 where it says, the whole purpose of this is that we would be walking in newness of life. Okay with that?

The sin nature will be removed once and for all when we go to be with the Lord. We've been positionally separated from it, but it still tries to influence our lives, and at times it does. At times we do allow it to influence our lives, but we've been positionally separated from it. And when we go to be with the Lord, whether He takes us home before the rapture, or when the rapture comes, it is going to be completely gone. It will be, I sat at His table the other day, what happens to it?

Where does it go? It was just kind of one of those questions that didn't have a whole lot of relevance, but it was kind of fun to think about and try to, one, speculate where it is the sin nature, what ultimately happens to it, and come up with an answer.

But it's not with us in heaven. That's the bottom line. When we go to be with the Lord, the sin nature is not with us anymore, which will be a great day. Okay, so it doesn't matter if we feel like it or not, we've died a sin. Doesn't that happen in our lives at times? Boy, it sure doesn't feel like I'm dead to sin. It feels like this thing has just got control of me and I can't get out from under it. Doesn't that happen? I think it does happen in my life at times. Boy, it doesn't feel like it.

It's still true. Whether we feel like we're dead to sin or not, it is still true that we're dead to sin. So don't let our feelings try to sway us one way or the other. It can't be true because I don't feel like it's true. It's true, whether we feel like it or not. It doesn't matter if we see it affecting our lives or not.

We've died to sin. We might be walking in the flesh. We might be walking in unbelief. We might be walking in the flesh and saying, man, there's no way that my sin nature has been crucified with Christ. Look at what it's doing to me right now. The point is, we've still died to sin. We've still been separated from that sin nature, whether it's controlling us at that very moment or not.

That's the beauty of the whole thing, that it's a positional truth that cannot be undone, that cannot be redone, or cannot be taken away from us. Therefore, there's a victory that is always possible for the ultimate purpose that God would be glorified.

Any thoughts? There's sort of two inferences of this too. There's the guilt that you feel from sin, and that's a lot of what you're talking about, and I think that's the easiest thing for a Christian to have with faith. and that he's relieved of the guilt associated with sin, the death that's the result of sin.

It's fairly easy to get into that, but there's also that sin has this attractiveness. It's the shiny red apple. It's something you want. And that attractiveness feature of sin isn't as easily dealt with mentally as the forgiveness of sin through the guilt part of it. Where do you think that the attractiveness of sin is appealing to?

The flesh. That's right. Exactly right. All the time. As we know these truths, And as we are believing in them, actively believing in them, and walking in them, and therefore something begins to come up, and the shiny red apple begins to look good, it begins to tempt.

We know it can only be tempting the flesh, it can't be tempting anything else. Oh boy, I am separated from the flesh, I'm separated from the sin nature. Wow! Praise the Lord, there's the freedom. I'm going this way. I'm not going down that road. I'm going to be going this way.

I was reading about somebody fasting, and they need to fast in order to think clearly. I think that's one of the logics for fasting. They're getting away from what we're talking about. If you've been relieved of these things, you don't need to fast to further relieve yourself. That's right. You're clear like the old man again.

If you're fasting to try to get to the root of the sin nature over here, problematic. If you're walking by faith, actively depending on the Lord, in the new nature, and Christ is living His life in and through you, and He's leading you to fast, no problem. I don't see any problem with that. But if you're fasting over here, trying to take care of that wrong fruit, then you're going to be really hungry and frustrated a lot.

That's the way I see that working out. Yeah, you mentioned the feelings, you know, I don't feel this, I feel that, when a thought comes to mind. My dad did a lot of flying, in fact, growing up, we always used to go flying. Do we have to go flying all the time? My point in bringing it up is that pilots are taught, trust your instruments.

That's how you feel. Because they've done various experiments, you can take somebody and put them in a seat that spins and moves and that kind of thing, and have them indicate, how am I moving? And pretty quick, they're not feeling the right movement. And pretty soon it's apparent that how they're feeling is no indication at all of reality. And the same thing applies here.

If the Lord has laid out what is true, and we need to go by that, how do I feel about it? That's right. Excellent point. Roger? Also what's really cool, we're going to get into it further, but verse 11 is going to really tell us how to reckon. Put it down as true. And we're going to get there. He doesn't leave us, well how am I going to apply this? He tells us how to apply it. That's really cool.

So what does, we've been separated from, or died to sin, so what does sin mean in this context? We've died in respect to sin, or we've been positionally separated, died to, from the power, the influence, the slavery, or the rule of sin. So just think about that. Sin no longer has the authority to be powerful in our lives anymore. It no longer has the authority to influence our lives anymore, or it no longer has the authority to cause us to be a slave to sin anymore, or it no longer has the authority to rule our lives anymore. That authority, it has been broken, and it's really been broken once and for all. Still live in it. So let me just kind of, let me read Verse 2 again, kind of get the flow.

May it never be, how shall we who died to sin still live in it? Live meaning here that after we have died to sin, how shall we at any time in the future still live in sin? How can that be possible? You know, after we have died with Christ on the cross to sin, how is it possible that we would still be living in it? And so let's talk about that for just a minute. Is Paul saying that it is possible not to sin? What do you think? Is Paul saying it's possible not to sin?

Absolutely. Hands down. That's what he's saying. The rule, the authority, the power of this sin nature in our lives has been positionally ended, positionally broken, Paul's saying, yeah, it's possible for us to no longer to sin. Now, I'm not saying that it is possible for us to attain sinful or sinless perfection this side of heaven, because that's not going to happen. Let me clarify that. But the mechanics of it, of what Paul's laying out here, is it's possible in our lives for us to not sin.

Praise the Lord for that. ultimately is bringing glory to God. That's ultimately influencing and affecting all of our lives. Our relationships with our spouses, our relationships with our kids, our relations with our co-workers, our relations with our neighbors, the whole thing. Our lives are 100% affected by this.

Let me ask this question. Is he saying that because we've died to sin, it's impossible to continue to live in it? The same question worded a little bit differently. The idea here is that if we are, by faith, walking in, actively dependent upon the Lord, walking in our new nature, allowing Christ to be living His life in and through us, then we're not going to be sinning. That's what is coming across here. If we're actively trusting the Lord in these truths, what God has laid forth to be true, allowing Christ to be living His life in and through us, we're not going to be sinning.

Now, the moment that we step into unbelief, we're no longer walking in the truths that God has laid forth as far as our freedom from the sin nature. I'm going to be walking in the flesh, and I'm going to be sinning. So it's possible that we no longer are walking in sin.

It's possible that we're free from these deeds of sin. That's what Paul is driving at here, and we all, I think, want so badly in our lives as well. Mechanically, it's an impossibility for someone who has died to sin to still live in it. Hopefully, I explained the mechanics of that.

If we're walking by faith in what God has done, therefore, it's going to be impossible for us to sin. But, sometimes we walk by faith, sometimes we don't. If I'm not walking by faith, down I go. Walking in the flesh, the deeds of the flesh are manifested. That's the way that I think it's coming across here.

So verse 3 tells us how it is that we are dying to sin. This kind of lays out the steps of how it is that we have died to sin. So verse 3 says, that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death. Verse 4, and we continue on. Therefore, we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. Okay. The idea here of, do you not know, as he opens up verse 3, he says, do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Jesus Christ have been baptized into his death?

Now go over to chapter 7 and verse 1, he says the exact same thing here in relation to something different, but he uses the same word here. He says, or do you not know, brethren? For I am speaking to those who know the law, that the law is jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives. Same word is being used there in chapter 6 and verse 3, and then over in chapter 7 and verse 1.

So the idea here is that it assumes a present knowledge, knowledge enough to understand what follows. So it could be said this way. Do you not know, and by the way, you do know this. So what's happening here is that these people already knew of the truths that Paul is talking about. Don't you know? And by the way, you do. It's like, don't you know that Sunday school starts at 9 o'clock? Oh, well, by the way, you know Sunday school starts at 9 o'clock.

That's kind of the idea as to what he's driving at here. They knew this and they knew what it was that he was talking about over in chapter 7 and verse 1. We're going to get into this more next week. But I did want to go ahead and just bring it up because it ties in with where we're at here in chapter 3, the idea of this, do you not know?

Verse 6 and verse 9, knowing has the idea of because of, or because we know. So when you look at 6, it says, knowing this, that our old self was crucified. The idea there is that because of knowing this, or because you know this to be true. So it's assuming that they already know it to be true, and they did. They did know it to already be true. And therefore, if we track it on down, as Roger stated earlier, down into 11, which is a big culminating point, it says, because we know, now reckon.

So what is he saying in verse 3? You know this, you know this to be true. Don't you know? By the way, you already know it. You know this to be true in verse 6. You know this to be true in verse 9. Therefore, let this be the result of what you already know to be true, which is verse 11, therefore reckon. That's the way I think that's kind of playing out, and we'll get into more detail of that later on. The flow there, though, of 3, 6, 9, and 11. Okay.

So, don't you know that all of us have been baptized into Jesus Christ? What kind of baptism is this talking about? Is it talking about water baptism, or is it talking about something else? What do you guys think? Everybody knows the intro, nobody wants to speak out. It's not talking about water baptism. It's talking about our spiritual baptism, our identification with, or how I like to use the word immersion as him and I were getting together and talking about these things. So it's not talking about water baptism. It's talking about our identification with Christ. have been baptized.

Again, this is critical points for us to understand. This is an action which was done to us. It's passive. That's what we see coming out right here. We didn't do this to ourselves. We didn't baptize ourselves, but we were baptized by God into Christ. It was done to us, and it was accomplished in the past, and it's a reality, not a possibility.

It's not like, well, this might be true of half the group in here. You sit on this side of the room and it's really true. On this side, well, it might be true. No. It's a reality for every one of us in this room this morning to put our personal faith and trust in Christ. The idea of baptized, immersed, or placed into, identified with, whatever happened to Christ, happened to us. And we're going to read that. We do this Bible study with some friends of ours in our neighborhood and we were going through this chapter and it talked about baptism and it had some really interesting things to say regarding what we're talking about this morning. So I'm just going to read you one short paragraph here. It says here, baptism implies identification.

The common meaning of the word baptizo originated in the early Greek textile industry. In the process of dyeing fabric, a piece of cloth was plunged into a vat of dye, whereby it took on the color of the pigment. The cloth was totally identified with the dye. That's what we're getting here with this idea of baptized. baptized that piece of cloth was immersed was placed into immersed into that that vat of dye so that when you pulled it out it was no longer the same it was it was completely different and that's it it's a it's something that that makes a change we're going to see that as we look down specifically the words first Corinthians 12 verse 13 look over Look over there with me.

1 Corinthians 12 and verse 13. Four by one spirit were we all baptized into one body, that is the body of Christ. Whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, we were all made to drink of one spirit. There's the idea there of being, this is bringing across the idea of being placed into Christ, the body of Christ.

Bob? Got a point? Okay. It's sufficient for the whole world, but it's only applied to those who have put their personal faith and trust in Christ. Their faith. I'm not going to say that faith... Everybody has the decision to choose to believe in the Lord or not. It's going to become personal and real for them in their lives if they decide, if they choose to put their personal faith and trust in Christ. But don't you think that that's leading to an acting of power for the Spirit? I don't know about that. I'm not sure that I want to go to the point where my faith is a gift or anything like that, because I don't believe that's true.

But how would we be baptized in Christ without an acting of power? Yeah. Anybody want to comment to that? Go ahead, Dave. I was just going to say, if Christ is doing the baptizing, we're not doing it. Right. We make the choice and then he goes through with whatever's been promised. Okay. I'm asking what the process is.

I mean, how will we baptize a new Christ? I mean, I think what brings you to the salvation is the same process as I think it brings us to be baptized into Christ. After we're baptized into him before we're baptized into death, right? We're baptized with the cross. So is this Calvinistic? That God chooses those who get baptized and those who don't?

Yeah, I see your question. Any other? Vern or Roger, you want to make a comment to that? How? If you look at 1 Corinthians 1, verse 30, it says, By God's doing, we are in Christ Jesus. It is God who does the placing. There's no question about that. It is Him who gives the credit. Right, right.

But would you say, though, that God enables us to believe so that that can happen? I think you have to separate two things. You have to separate faith and you have to separate everything that comes after that. Because once faith is the result of that, then God does the baptizing. So, it's by one's faith and trust in Jesus Christ. How does that happen? Well, God cruises, He drives us to Himself, right?

And it's not by... No, but not one would choose Him. I mean, that's been very clear. No, not one would choose God. So it has to be some... by the Holy Spirit in order to prepare us to make that choice. There's no way that you can choose that on your own. No, no, no, sure. Sure, absolutely.

But I think Hal's point is, I think clear, is that we need to separate the faith and then things that being baptized, being sealed, being all the positional truths, I think we need to keep those separate. There's the faith and then there's the positional truths that we're talking about this morning. I think that's very helpful and I think probably the best way for us to interpret it and see it. Roger, you were going to make a comment? Baptism is one of the many results of our belief. No doubt. We get the whole package. And is God drawing us? Is he willing? Yeah, absolutely. The Bible is hands down. It talks about that. I look at my BFF as in a crisis. Sure.

So maybe the real question that maybe we need to ask and not going to answer this morning, and we might not answer for a long time, is that, you know, is our faith our choice or not? Maybe that's really the big step back. That's really the big question that really Maybe some people need to ask an answer. We're not going to go there to swim. We can have a class and after about six months and try to figure that out, you know, that kind of thing. So. All right.

So. identified with, placed into, immersed, the idea of baptized, whatever happened to Christ also happened to us. The idea here is that we were immersed, baptized into Jesus Christ. Previous union was with first Adam, the Adamic nature. Genesis talks about that. Adam produced after his own kind. Boom, boom, boom, boom, here we are. A thousand years later, everybody's being born with the sin nature, as we mentioned earlier. We've talked about that in Romans 5, verse 12, in previous weeks.

So, key, the separation from the Adamic nature could only come through death. There was no other way for us to be separated from the sin nature. It only could happen through death. our death, Christ's death on the cross, and our death with Him on the cross. Therefore, we're separated from the sin nature.

The new identification is with Christ. We're no longer in Adam, but we are now in Christ. And we are baptized into His death. When Christ died, we also died with Him. What part of us died? How about that question? If we died with Christ, which we're seeing very clearly, that we died to sin, Christ died, we died, what part of us died? Spiritually. Yeah, spiritually. What part of us died? The sin nature. Exactly right, right on. The sin nature is what died. They interpret the death, not our death, but sin nature died and therefore they don't have the condition. And then when they send in the condition, it's very confusing. That's right, yeah. That does get confusing and that does get tricky right there. I think we'll flush some of that out as we keep going.

But the sin nature, is what positionally died. And position there is the key, because conditionally it does, as Cliché says, raises his ugly head and tries to influence and bring us back into slavery to it. So the sin nature, all that we were in Adam, is a part of us that died. Remember death means separation? In our death with Christ, what we were separated from is the sin nature, and in essence we were cut loose from it, so that it no longer has to be the one that is influencing us anymore.

So, baptized used here with a preposition indicates moved into, in order to become involved with, or a part of. I'm going to stop right here. We'll pick it up next week. So, let me go back. So, we're baptized into His death. We were identified with, we were immersed into, when He died, we died, in order that we would become part of Him.

So that we would become part of His new life. So that we would become part of, so that we would be able to walk in newness of life. Look at verse 4. so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. That's the point here. It happened so that He was raised, as He was raised from the dead, so we too might walk in newness of life. So that we can be involved in that with Christ. Let's end it right there.

We'll pick it up there next week. Save your questions. This is super, super critical. section of scripture. We don't want to just blow through this. We want to take our time. We'll take as much time as is needed for this passage of scripture because it's so important that we trust the Lord just to get our hands around it, get our minds around it, and the Lord will communicate it through His Holy Spirit. Let's pray.

Lord, thanks for this time. Thanks for your word and just leading us through it. And we pray as was earlier that your Holy Spirit will teach us and guide us into all truth. That's our humble request and we praise you because we know that you will do that. You said that you will and we know that you are right now doing that. And so that's where our dependency is. We just pray for Vern and the rest of this service this morning. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.