First Thessalonians, 5:1-3 The Day of the Lord (Part 1)

So I thought it'd be fun for us to get warmed up with some early morning discussion questions before we get, because, you know, everyone's always afraid to answer the first question. So I thought we'd warm up and just get everybody talking as a class, not with each other, obviously.

So our first question for today is, why do we study prophecy? Why do we study the end times and what's coming? Just give me some reasons. There probably aren't very many wrong answers. Because we're curious! That's one big reason, right? In fact, to satisfy the curiosity is the reason why a lot of people are looking at Nostradamus and all these other cranks. I mean, people who pretend to have something to say about the future.

So curiosity is a big deal, and oftentimes the Bible doesn't sometimes give us quite as much, just as in the case of creation, in the case of the end times, doesn't give us quite as much as our curiosity would demand. Until we get there, we'll probably still have some more questions.

As to exactly, the great example being, exactly what will the church be doing? Just exactly what will we be doing? We're not sure. We know we'll be with the Lord, and we know we'll be serving Him, and worshipping Him, marveling at Him, but what that will look like? Our curiosity isn't always satiated by the word, but the Lord has revealed what He wants us to know. So why else do we study prophecy?

Fantastic point. We have a great amount of hope in the fact that, what is it about, they say that roughly half of the biblical prophecies concerning Christ and concerning Israel and all these things, about half of them are already fulfilled, leaving about half of them yet to be fulfilled. The first half were fulfilled literally and in a way that was really not that complicated or difficult to understand. So we can look forward to the literal fulfillment of the last half, which is really great news. I think we also have a tendency to, we're anticipating the Lord's return, so we're looking at these things and say, What condition are we in right now?

Can he come tomorrow? Is there anything that needs to be fulfilled before he comes? I think that's one thing we have to look at in anticipation. That's absolutely. We've got to know. We have to know. Is there three things that have to happen before he comes?

You know, you talk to a lot of people and they say, well, I don't know about the end times, but I think things have to get a lot worse. Is that true? Probably not. Definitely not, from the word. I mean, we studied last week, the rapture is imminent. At the end is imminent.

There's nothing that needs to happen. There's no switch that needs to be thrown 30 feet below the ground in order for the end times events to start, the end time clock to start. He could start at any time. And he could have started at any time prior to this.

It was just as imminent when Paul was writing to the Thessalonians as it is now to us. Just a couple days closer. So does anybody have any other suggestions as to why we study prophecy? Why we study the end times? It seems that it's interesting to me that, for example, we listened to Billy Crane last night. on channel 57 in the archives. And I think he was in a crusade at Lubbock, Texas that they broadcast last night.

And it's written in 1975. And speaking of, it's kind of prophecy in reverse. He was speaking about things in 1975 that were bad, and they're certainly a lot worse today. Yeah, it's definitely true. The condition, the heart of man hasn't changed in the 2,000 years since Paul wrote this. Paul had written this.

So why is it important? Why we study prophecies, maybe with a nuance of difference, why is it important that we study prophecy? Because so many churches will happily just throw their hands up over the whole matter and say, it's not applicable, it's not important, it just causes division. Why is it important to us? It has to do with the very character of God, doesn't it? It's fantastic. Why else is it important?

Titus tells us it's the blessed hope, right? I mean, if you've ever had a day so bad, and I know everyone has, where you're thinking, Jesus, now's a really good time to come back, right? And that's a real hope. That's not just a kind of pretend fantasy or an illusion or just a way to solve our difficult feelings or frustrations. It's a real hope. It really could be at any time.

I think, too, it's also important because when we witness to other people, who don't know the Lord. And we can share with them, these are real events that have happened. And here they are in here. And so, if they don't know the character of God, it is a way to prove that in fact, these things happened and they were a prophecy. Absolutely.

Well, and then you see all the secular scholars and people trying to just do backflips to try to make sure that you date things right so that it wasn't, you know, try to date things 200 years after they happened or while they were happening. And it's just ridiculous. I mean, the Dead Sea Scrolls show up and everyone's like, oh, well, I guess that didn't work out very well. And that the Lord did say it and it did happen. And again and again and again and again and again.

So, yeah, it's an incredibly powerful witness that we oftentimes overlook. I think I overlook it because I feel like people know so little about the Bible that to just start them anywhere is almost not fair. And it's foolish because the Lord has been very true to his word. Does anyone else have anything to add about why it's so important? that they bring out, that every man that has this hope purifies himself even as he is pure. That's purifying hope. As we thank the Lord for how many moments.

And the new book by Waldron, it's just excellent. Actually, indeed, Younger Waldron. It's just excellent on the Middle East. You have not read that. We read it over the Thanksgiving holidays. And it's just excellent. It's just excellent. It's just gotten into the context of what's happening right now. Very interesting. The prophecies showing how things are lining up. Wow. That's amazing.

And then the reality is, is the way the Lord works in all his majesty is everything could be just lined up just like so we see it's ready to happen. It could all fall apart. And it could all come together again in a year and a half. I mean, it's amazing how the Lord's so much in control of all that.

So, yeah, it's absolutely, it's a call to purifying ourselves. It's a call to urgency, realizing that this, that we do every day, even though it starts to look mundane or seems a little bit, you know, ho-hum after a while, the reality is that it could be for two more seconds or no more seconds. And we can go into every day with the assurance that this could be the last time we get up and go to work. This could be the last time that we get up, brush our teeth, and do our normal routine.

And I think it gives us an image of character of life with the Lord, when we're with the Lord. Once again, every day will be exciting. There'll be no, I guess we'll go bask in the Lord's glory again today. It'll be every day will be new and exciting. Every day will be something else. So, it's fantastic. Okay, the last question.

If the Lord has it all in control anyway and people just seem to disagree about it, why should we put any effort into studying, learning, and teaching it? It's the prophecy at the end times. There's some quick reasons. Why should we bother? Just because of divisions, right? Just reinforces his character. You know, that's what we want to focus on anyway, is him, and his character, and who he is. I think that's one of the main reasons. Completely agree. Yeah. I think the fact that he's revealed it makes it worth studying.

If we didn't need to know it, he wouldn't need to reveal it. I mean, let's give God just a little bit of credit. Like, he's not telling us things we don't need to know. Wayne, did you? Well, his word is profitable to us. He wrote it for us. He corrected us. He said that we would be stronger. So it's very important that we say all of that.

Absolutely. I did the Revelation material with Vern and listened to it over the internet and so forth. And the one thing that I was shocked with was the fact that the Christ pictured in Revelation, we don't get that picture of Christ as clearly anywhere else. It's just amazing. And that's talking about the end times. It's not a different Christ than we see, but the reality is that that's the glorified Christ. That's the Christ that's in us now. That's the Christ that works in us currently and is at work in our body here.

So, yeah, it's endlessly profitable to strengthen us. So, alright, does anyone else have anything else to add about the study of prophecy and why we do it? Because we're not just trying to be jerks. Bob? Well, Brad, I think it gives us a clue in terms of who we are positionally. In a sense, this book is written for those who are capable of interpreting.

That's the body of Christ, right? So in a sense, it's kind of like hanging out with some kind of special information that only is privileged to a few. And that's the body. So when we think of citizenship, we're thinking of eternity. And that's eternity now. historic and futuristic, right? So, it's kind of a glimpse of eternity to the privileged few, and that's the body.

So, it's kind of like whispering in the back of the room, you know, something that's not for everybody. So, this book is only interpretable by those who are fully straight-legged. So, it's a glimpse of who he is and who we are in him, and the promises that we can rest in eternity. And as Margaret said, we trust him about the future. because he's proven himself true. Amen. Beautiful. Alright, let's move forward to our study today. That's fantastic.

You'll notice I didn't put like a little introductory blurb because I realize it takes me about 15 minutes to get through that introductory blurb most of the time, and then we go through it again anyway, so that's why that's missing today. All right, I'll read, or actually, I apologize. Vani, would you be so kind as to read this out for us? Now as to the times and the ethics, brother, you have no need of anything to be written to you.

For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. While they are saying, peace and safety, and destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains upon a woman and child, and they will not escape.

Great. So, obviously last week, for those who are here or listened in on the internet, We covered the rapture. We covered it in great detail. It was fantastic. I always get excited whenever we talk about the rapture. Just to hear someone say it, you know, it's like when I first had... I'm sorry, April actually had the baby. But when she had the baby... When she had the baby, I just, people would, I loved it when people would come up and ask me about it, or say, hey, you're a daddy, hey, da da da.

I just loved to hear it again, because it was such good news, and just to hear it, even though I already knew it, just to hear it again is so exciting. So it's the same thing for me, whenever I hear a sermon or hear people teaching or just talking about the rapture, it's just that little bit of, you know, adrenaline goes through your system, because you know it's coming. And today, not by coincidence, Paul begins to talk about the Day of the Lord, and you'll notice it's right after all the rapture stuff. In fact, immediately after he's done talking about the rapture, we start talking about this business here, which we'll find is departing from the rapture, and it's very important, and we'll see why the rapture is discussed before this time. So, what translations do we have in the room for times and epics? Anybody have an Old King Jimmy? Times and the Seasons? I think Darby has Seasons, King James Version has Seasons.

So, these two words, Times and Seasons, if they're alone, then they can mean just the same thing. They can be interchangeable, if they're alone. They can mean just a duration of time, or a single time, like a particular time, but when they're together, whenever they're used together, it's surely talking about trying to span all types of time. So for this word time, the word translated times, it usually means large durations of times, periods of times.

You know, you talk about the 19th century, that would be the times. And then the word translated seasons is talking about special days or a date. So we say, you know, when's the rapture? That would be this word that's brought across as season or epochs, oddly enough.

So it's saying, you know what, I don't have to write to you about either the massive spans of time or the specific dates that will come. So This actually, we see this times in epics and I just love to go back to this passage and do with whenever I have any excuse. It says that Acts 1, 6 through 8, if someone wants to turn from it or read it off the screen. Should we go this way?

Roger, would you be so kind? Therefore, being come together, asked him, saying, Lord, it is at this time that thou restorest the kingdom to Israel. And he said to them, It is not yours to know times or seasons, which the Father has placed in His authority, but you will receive power. The Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem and on Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth. Awesome. Okay.

I just love coming back to this passage because I think it so clearly displays some things that we need to know about the end times and about who we are as the church. So here's a, which one's the laser button? There it is. So here we have the disciples saying, Lord is it now? You remember Christ has just been resurrected. He's been teaching them. Acts chapter one tells me he's been teaching them for a good amount of time about the kingdom of God. And they say, Lord is it now? Is now the time you're going to come and restore this kingdom that you've been teaching us about for the last 40 days or whatever it was? is now the time. And of course, Jesus says to them, no, you don't understand.

The kingdom is not a literal kingdom, it's the church, and I'm going to establish the church. Is that what he says? Not at all, right? He doesn't correct them in the slightest. Everyone would agree that they had a certain understanding of the kingdom, as literal, as coming, and Jesus would be the king. Jesus doesn't correct any, and they're listening now, they're standing with the resurrected Christ. I think no matter how thick they are, He could get it through to them if He wanted to. He is the Lord.

And yet, rather than correcting them, He says, you know what, it's not yours to know the times and the seasons. Once again, just like Paul says here, it's not yours to know. when the tribulation is going to be. It's not yours to know when the rapture is going to be. It's not yours to know any of this. It's really not going to be profitable for you to know that I'm coming back on this day.

However, he does tell them that they have a different mission here. That the Holy Spirit will come upon them and they will be witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. So it's just very important that, once again, Christ, given the opportunity to equate the kingdom, or the kingdom of God, with the church, and he blatantly, openly chose not to make that equation. So, this is another instance of that times and seasons that we see here. So, back to our questions. Why would they have no need that Paul would write to them about this topic? Why would they have no need? He'd already told them. I don't need to write to you about that. He told you.

There's a couple of guesses at it, but how long do we suppose that Paul was with the Thessalonians? Three, four, five years? Two, three weeks? Does anybody remember anything we've said so far? It's kind of... Okay. Yeah, and you know if we go strictly from the biblical account we're talking just a couple weeks I mean a couple Sabbaths and if we go there's some people who want to extend it a little bit you know here on one side or the other but you can't just by the biblical record you can't get it out past a month or so so he was there for a really short time and yet and he hasn't said this about everything hey you don't need that I don't need to write to you about this There's but a couple things that he says, you already know this, and this is one of the things that he says he already knows. They already know.

So what's the significance of that? What's the significance of the fact that Paul does not need to write anymore to explain this? Obviously they've been told, and that's significant, but it's just fascinating. What was Paul's priority when dealing with this church that he was with only a couple weeks? Isn't that amazing? I think that's amazing.

I mean, we usually think, okay, you're a new believer, let's just get you on the Gospels and, you know, we'll just get you on the basics and all this stuff and, you know, we'll worry about end time stuff later. But Paul didn't seem to really draw that distinction that like, you know, the Gospels are baby food and then prophecy in the future, end-time stuff is grown-up food, or anything like that.

He seemed to make it clear within possibly two weeks. I mean, you imagine building a church in a couple weeks, it's just mind-blowing in and of itself. But in that two weeks, one of the things that he felt very confident that he had to teach clearly, and that he did teach clearly, was this end times information. It was this information that it's all in God's hands. It was this information of what is yet to come and what is ahead. And it's pretty fantastic.

But also, it seems like they were concerned about what happened. As we read previously in chapter 4, they were concerned about their loved ones. They'd gone to be with the Lord. And then, of course, the day of the Lord that we're going to get to, was something that was written about in the Old Testament extensively. So they, you know, how it all fit together, it seemed to be something that was on their minds, something that was kind of a hot topic for them. So it may be that it's why they were so well taught in that area, because that was one of their questions about their loved ones that had gone before them. What would happen in this day of the Lord? Is that going to mess things up too? Am I going to be affected by that? Absolutely. Bob?

You know, going on what Roger just said, I think if you think about the church of Thessalonica, this was a relatively mature church, and yet much of the first part of the book is really addressed to the walk. I mean, so, and if you think about how much detail Paul has put into the rapture and the day of the Lord, there's not much in most other epistles, right? So even though that this is a fairly mature church, quote, walking well in the Lord Jesus Christ, he still spends most of the book on the walk. And so it's kind of, again, this privileged information, maybe, that he's giving unto them about the day of the Lord and telling them they don't need to know the time, but this is kind of what it's going to be like. And I sense, again, this comes after, again, reemphasizing what the life of the Lord Jesus Christ looks like to the believers. Absolutely. Certainly, certainly. Cool.

Shall we move forward from this verse? Does anyone have any other questions about this verse? It's really an easy couple of verses to teach in terms of there's no real woo-hoo shocks about the grammar or any, like, and theologians have debated about this for years regarding a lot of the issues here. So, 1 Thessalonians 5, 2 says, for you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.

So, this knowledge again, you know, well, why do you think that Paul uses the more potent phrase, you know full well, regarding this issue? Why not just you know? He said you know a lot. You know that we did this, you know that we did this, and now all of a sudden, and you know full well. You yourselves, in fact, it's even more emphatic. He says, hey, you, you guys, specifically, you yourselves, you know full well. Why this more emphatic, potent phrase, do you think?

It's not really that complicated or deep. He's trying to give him confidence making. Yeah. He's saying, hey, go with it. Exactly. You know it, trust in it. Absolutely. Yeah. He's saying, you guys know it. He's just being really, really emphatic, right? And he's saying, trust in that. Okay.

So, the day of the Lord is kind of a fun phrase that we see in scripture a lot. Roger and I got to talk a little bit about it, and I guess there have been some fistfights had in the past. What do we know about the Day of the Lord? Or what do we know about the term, the Day of the Lord?

Does anybody have any pre-existing information? That's okay. Okay, no problem. I mean, this was one that I was back and forth on for the last two weeks. I couldn't quite figure it out, and finally after talking to everybody, I feel like, okay, that makes the most sense.

Essentially, you got two main camps amongst people who study the word literally and believe in the Lord's return and all this business. So you got one camp and the person who I read most, who's most talkative about it was Arnold Fruchtenbaum. And Arnold Fruchtenbaum believes that the Day of the Lord, this phrase here, is something that refers only to the Great Tribulation.

And he gets that information because in the Old Testament, the Day of the Lord, that is the Day of Yahweh, is always used in a tribulation context. So in the Old Testament, whenever you're reading the Day of the Lord, you can probably assume that it's mostly tribulation in context. However, once you get to the New Testament, we start to see that term, I won't say expanded because I don't think that in the Old Testament they were using it exclusively as the tribulation period. It's just that whenever he uses it, he describes tribulation events.

So when we get to the New Testament, we start to see the Day of the Lord, and specifically in 1 Peter 3, we see the Day of the Lord used as the time when the Lord will burn up all the elements and everything that has to do with this planet, which indicates the time at the end of the Millennial Kingdom.

So I think the more full definition of the Day of the Lord and the definition that has been taught here at Holly Hills for as long as I know is the idea that the Day of the Lord starts and Pentecost is kind of one of the main proponents for this view.

The Day of the Lord starts with the Tribulation. and ends all the way on the other side with the consummation of this whole earth, the whole heavens and earth. So, when you see the Day of the Lord, it's just such a... What does that mean, the Day of the Lord? It seems so ominous, and it's used in kind of a broader way, and it almost seems like the Day of the Lord should be a day, right? And yet, we're calling it this whole time period. And actually, there's really great reason for that.

In the Scripture, when we see the Day of the Lord, and specifically here, There's no definite article in front of the day of the Lord. So you might even call it in the day of the Lord. I mean, what do we know about when we're using this definite article versus not using the definite article? What is the definite article? Specificity. That didn't come out right at all. Specificity. Specificity. So Brian, you have to clarify that for me.

So if you use either definition, are you talking about the entire tribulation to the day of the kingdom or are you talking about the new heavens and the new earth? The tribulation all the way up until the new heavens and the new earth. Wow, that includes the kingdom age. Yes. Fully includes the kingdom age and really all the way up to the great white throne.

I believe to be the day of the Lord. So, and the fact that this is not, once again in English we have to say the day of the Lord because a day of the Lord just doesn't quite jive with our thinking. I think Vern kind of covered this in the Genesis series when it talked about day because we do use this, you know, in my day, meaning a period of time, it's not a specific day but a period of time. And I think that kind of relates to what we're talking about. Precisely. Absolutely. And the fact that there's no definite article there, it has that kind of in my day sense, but what is the character of that time period? Well, it has both.

It has both judgment, and actually the Melancholy Kingdom is a wonderful, it has both aspects, which is kind of, I think part of the reason why it's been difficult to get your hands around the Day of the Lord is it has both those aspects. go across all the scripture and look at the full... it has both Milano King, which is a very wonderful time, whereas Tribulation Period is not a very nice time. It covers all those aspects.

Yeah, and we're in such a unique time period, because when was the last time you heard someone blaspheme or take the name of the Lord in vain or say something that was just, you know, about how much they hated God or anything to that effect and had a lightning bolt fall from the sky and take them out right then and there? I've never had that experience. Has anybody had that experience? I might have even wanted to have that experience at some point, but I never have.

So, the reality that that doesn't happen shows that there's a unique character to this time period. In this time period, God is tolerant of all sorts of blasphemies, all sorts of wicked acts, all sorts of insult to His name, to His glory, to His honor. I mean, He puts up with so much from us, and His grace is shown so powerfully because some of those who are the most blasphemous he saves and turn to glorifying him. So his grace is definitely shown. In these times, in the tribulation, in the millennium, those days will be characterized by the Lord's sovereign control.

If you step out of line during the millennial kingdom, is not good for you. Quite quickly, in fact, you're not going to wind up in a happy place. So, unlike this period, we're going to see in the coming ages that anyone who steps out from the Lord's will will meet immediate judgment. That will be dealt with immediately.

Unlike now. Could I remember some, in this whole discussion, there's a difference of opinion as to translation as whether the day of the Lord or the day of Christ. Some people feel that that's a mis- it should have been translated one or the other. Does that mean anything to you? The day of Christ is the rapture as I understand it and the day of the Lord. It doesn't have anything to do with what I'm thinking of. It has specifically to do with the rapture.

Some people think it should have been translated the day of Christ rather than the day of the Lord. I can earnestly say that I didn't, I haven't studied that. I didn't see, I know in the books that I read, none of them tried to make the two synonymous, but that doesn't mean that it's not. In other words, Christ, the term Christ and the Lord aren't necessarily synonymous. Right, they're not at all. And the day of Christ? No, certainly not.

Christos means anointed. So if it says in scripture the day of Christ, it means the day of the anointed. And well, the day of the anointed Lord, as we see in the New Testament, its biblical synonym is Yahweh. Adonai Yahweh. So I would, like I say, I haven't studied it so I don't want to speak too quickly, but I would be inclined to think that the Day of Christ had different specific meanings and the Day of the Lord, which is what we're seeing here and we see in 1 Peter 3 and in a number of other Old Testament passages, we see the Day of Yahweh.

Like I say, I'm relying on the scholarship of others in saying that no one really seemed to think of those two as synonymous events. So the Day of Christ could be a rapture reference. I'm afraid I just don't know. My reference goes back to Ron Berryman. And we have the Day of God, which is at the consummation. It's a different, another day. I would agree with that, Brad. The Day of Christ most often, if not always, relates to the rapture.

First, when it gets 180, it builds on that also. Great. Well, I apologize. I hadn't done enough research on that. So, thank you for your question. I'm sure we'll have time to hammer that out on our own or individually or in groups. So, fantastic. Okay.

So, what's the significance of that day coming like a thief in the night? Randy discussed this a little bit last week. Are you saying Jesus is a thief? Could I ask a question about that? Of course. Will come? Is it will future or is it is coming? I did not look into that. I didn't look into that. It looks like it's present tense. Which gives a significance to now it's happening. Right. And if you say will, you think some day it's going to come. But it is coming, to my mind says, he's in the process of coming. You could say, the day of the Lord is going to come like this, like a thief in the night, which is how most do it.

It's going to be unexpected. We saw that before in the rapture passages too. So here's another event that's unexpected. And just the fact that we're not designed for wrath shows us once again why the rapture has to come first, why he talks about the rapture before this. So really, I mean, I almost feel like he's saying, I just want you to know this. You won't even be there. But hey, this is coming.

However, this will not come upon us without our knowing about it, the day of the Lord, that is, because we won't be on earth when it happens. Is this the phrase that those who don't believe in a rapture use, or what I've heard is they say, oh, well, there is no secret rapture. Well, my response to that would be, of course not, people will know. But, I mean, it just seems to me, we don't know when he's coming, but it doesn't mean that we won't know, or that those unsaved are left behind. that they won't know that he's family. Yeah, and I think it also draws good attention, and actually we'll look at this in the next, to the unbelievable blindness of mankind. Willful, stupid blindness. It's what we do. Right? I mean, the reality is, is that all the... Oh, but...

It goes in the scripture also, it goes so far as to say, such a time as you think Exactly. There's a, I can't remember who it was that said it, but they said, you know, if you want to know when the day of the Lord is not, just look for every date setter you can find.

Because if someone thinks it's going to happen then, you can guarantee that's not when it's coming. We have some long time friends that have made visions for their dog, in their will, in case they're raptured. They want somebody that's not saved to take care of their dog. It's just like in the context here, the ones that it comes upon are the ones who are saying it's peace and safety. Yes. They're fools. I mean, they're thinking now everything's secure. Yeah. Bang, here comes the Lord.

And I think, yeah, I think we're going to have to, yeah, let's move into that, because that's, yes? Talking about that tape coming at the height, I think that's the reason why it's really important for Christianity to stay focused on one another. When you witness it, you know, it's really important that, you know, that's how I am, I mean, you know, But isn't that the great reality that we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that as believers, we will be taken, and taken to be with Him. And the imminence of that should inspire the greatest devotion in us.

Because we know that our groom is coming, and that when he comes, just like, did you imagine a groom going back to get his bride, and he doesn't, like he goes and goes, okay, let's bring the whole wedding party, but honey, just stay here. It's not going to happen, right?

It's fantastic because that's why he came back to get his bride and we are his bride. And if that doesn't inspire devotion, once again Mike was teaching in the grace class and he said a couple of times and so beautifully, grace is the greatest motivator to devotion that could ever be conceived of. It's absolutely true. We can be motivated by fear, we can be motivated by reward, we can be motivated by grace is the greatest motivator.

And that's what we're looking at when we think about the rapture, when we think that he's coming. That we will be taken to be with him and that love and that anticipation should make us want to pursue him all the more. We discussed briefly the thief in the night thing, just the reality that it'll be unexpected, right?

It'll be completely unscheduled, unplanned. It'll just happen without our knowledge. And the reality is that we know as we've looked in the past passages, it's not contingent upon anything. We're not waiting for Moscow to be rebuilt so that Gog and Magog can be ready to go. No, nothing. We need nothing to happen before the rapture. It's absolutely imminent. unlike the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom.

So, while they're saying peace and safety then, destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. So what might be the significance of the presence of they are saying, and Roy you started to get to this, versus rather there is peace and safety. He doesn't say, while there is peace and safety, then destruction will come on them. He says, while they are saying peace and safety, destruction will come on them. What's the significance of that? There won't be peace and safety till Christ comes.

Isn't that world system stuff, peace and safety? Yeah, you read the UN mission statement and you think, oh, it's all going to happen. Oh, we're just going to, it's all going to work out. And you know, to some extent, as believers, we seek out the same things that our earthly, you know, existence don't. I mean, safety, how many people don't have insurance, have some sort of insurance. I mean, the issue is, you know, we kind of build that into our earthly existence. But that's again, not world system dynamics.

There is peace. They're saying finally peace and safety. Are they saying we want peace and safety? I'm not sure what. I think it'll be that inerrant blind human stupidity that we were talking about before that says, hey, we have peace and safety. OK, so there's a massacre in the Sudan. But, you know, peace and safety. You know, I mean, that's interesting is this will be after the rapture.

So, you know, Those of us that are gone, I mean, what are they going to do? Look around and say, finally, all these stupid Christians are gone. They've caused all the wars. They've caused all the disruption. You know, they don't believe in global warming. So they're finally going to say, finally, we're going to have peace and safety because all those fools are gone.

I really do. After a terrible event like 9-11. You know, it brought all of us together as a nation and started talking about, at least talking about, whether or not we even did it, taking care of each other and giving support. Remember when Hurricane Katrina came through Louisiana? Those difficult and awful hard events draw us together to a point of doing what we think we should do, even non-believers.

So I think on both sides, you'll get people going, oh, I'm so glad to have that lady out of my office, because she won't let me steal and do all this stuff. And you know, there'll be those people saying, now we can get it right, because all those Christians, those divisive, mean Christians are gone. And they'll also be saying, oh, wow, so many people lost families, brothers, sisters. We've got to pull together now. We'll have peace and safety at last, because there won't be a nation on Earth untouched by the loss of every believer. We certainly have another event that took place some time ago, called the Great Flood, where the same thing was occurring. There's Noah out in the dark, and they're gawping and laughing at him. They're waiting for him. There's no rain. They thought he was frozen.

Paul is talking about we or you. He's talking about Paul collectively with all the other believers. But here he says they. So it's pointing not to, you know, Paul's not talking about believers. He's talking about, as I mentioned before, that's people that are unbelievers. They're not part of, you know, he's comforting the believers. He says they will say, you know, they will say in the day of later, they will not escape. That's not, you know, that's all unbelievers in this, in verse three here.

Certainly. Certainly, certainly. We have five minutes. We have four questions. Keep your answers short. All right, so I think we've pretty much nailed this down. Peace, you know, we talked about is basically the absence of war right now. Now we're going to have peace. And as Bob pointed out, everybody wants it.

But the reality is, is that the selfish sinfulness of man renders it impossible. safety on the other hand can be translated as I think that alluded to security security in terms of you know so they're not just saying peace but also security it's going to stay this way We are now able to get it all done, secure ourselves, and make sure that we have enough food, enough this, enough that. So it's both peace and security that, as we pointed out, everyone's after.

And the reality is that none of us are as close to as we like to fool ourselves into believing. And I think things like 9-11 and Katrina and the earthquakes that are going on in Southeast Asia and the tsunamis show us that we're never quite as close to this peace and safety illusion as we think we are. Many of us have probably had earth-changing or life-changing events that happened.

You know, you woke up, you had a great day, you were, you know, having a cup of coffee and then the news came. You're never quite as close to that peace and safety as you think you are. But it's so funny that the moment before you get there, at least I know the moment before I get to anything like that, it's still, you know, you're totally fooled into believing that, yeah, it's there. And you never knew the storm was coming. It's a Colorado storm is the reality of it. It's so sunny and now we're in six feet of snow. Okay.

So what does Paul use, why, I'm sorry, why does Paul use the graphic image of a woman in labor for this event? There we go. Very good, very good. Yeah, it comes and then it's going, right? And there's... It doesn't stop. I mean, once it starts, that's it. You just have to continue on until the baby comes. So it's not... I just think that's just start happening right away. And there's no warning. I mean, you can just be doing a normal day, and all of a sudden, there it is. Isn't it wild that for all of our technology and all this, we still can't tell when a woman's going to go into labor? And it interrupts everything. Yeah. Yep. What other parallels can we draw from that? I think we've hit some of the hit, hit some of the really big ones. I think the big. Exactly. Once it starts, it's going.

And once it's done, nothing's ever the same again. I can speak from experience at this point. It's all going to be different once that ride starts. I mean, the mother can never go back to being pregnant with that child. It's an irreversible process. It's only fair. Why does Paul add that they will not escape?

What's the significance of that? Yeah. I think there's even more to it. I mean, just in addition to that, because that's absolutely true. It's just like, I think he's reinforcing the labor pains thing. It can be abated maybe, or it can be put off for a little bit, but ultimately, once that starts, it's going to keep going. You know, it's going to finish out. They'll call a big UN meeting. They'll ask, you know, what can we do to change the course of this? And they'll have all this stuff. And I think, you know, the Lord's making it very clear, it doesn't matter what you're going to do. It's as Lord made up. You cannot change what the Lord wills. Amen.

And the comfort for us is they won't escape, but the contrast is we will. We've already escaped. We've already escaped, and what I want to What I think was going on in Paul's heart alongside all this was, oh by the way, your friend the grocer, who won't come to the Lord, or who you haven't shared the gospel with, he will not escape. There's not going to be a second rapture for nice people that we liked. There's not going to be a second rapture for our sisters and brothers, physical, fleshly sisters and brothers, who we didn't have time to share the gospel with, or who we weren't brave enough to share the gospel with. And none of them will escape that horrible time of tribulation.

And it will all be for his glory and absolutely, you know, but the reality is, is I think that this is what motivated Paul. This thought is what motivated Paul to be the greatest evangelist possibly in history. He was out there and nothing would stop him from sharing the gospel. Not prison, not a broken relationship. If someone tried to pervert the gospel and that meant that their relationship was over, he would not sacrifice the gospel for the relationship. He was willing to see a good relationship go by the wayside if it meant the preservation and preaching of the gospel. So, to me, this, they will not escape, is Paul's call to share the good news. And it is really good news. So, anyone have any other comments to add to that? Alright, let's close.

Heavenly Father, we praise you for this wonderful word, Lord. We praise you that you have taught us. You have told us what is coming. And Lord, we praise you that we will escape the wrath to come. That we will escape what is coming. And Lord, it will all be to your glory. And I pray that we may constantly be shining as a light for you, Lord. That you and us would so draw people, our brothers, our beloved ones, to yourself. Lord, that that many more may be called to you on the day of the rapture. In Jesus' name, Amen.