Gods Wisdom and Eternal purpose

Alright, so I think we're going to need to really put this into perspective, and I've been gone the last two weeks, so maybe for me more than it is for you, to read from verse 1 down through 13. So I'm going to trust that the glasses I have on are going to be capable of the task at hand. Margaret, how about you reading? Can you read Ephesians 3, 1 through 13, please?

For this cause I, Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ, O ye Gentiles, if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you, how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery as I wrote before in a few words. whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ, which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit, that the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel. Whereof I was made a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. unto me, who am less than the least of all the saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ. to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers and heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. Wherefore, I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

So it's important, I think, to see what precedes the verses for today. And the first verse we're going to look at today is, "...to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places." Boy, I looked at this verse and I just kind of paused here a little bit. Look at what this verse says. "...to the intent," everything that precedes this, 1 through 12 now, "...to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God," which we'll return to in a second, "...might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places.

Who are we speaking to here? To the intent that now, by the way, now the age in which we live, the mystery being made apparent. So verse 5, what's it say in verse 5? Which in other ages was not made known, okay? So it's now being made known, right? Not in times past. And it's by design that it's made known there. But to whom is this manifold? By the way, manifold is variegated or different forms of or ultimate different manifestations of wisdom. And whose wisdom? God's wisdom, right? Might be notice subjunctive tense. Maybe, maybe it's not going to be. I mean, it could be, but maybe it's not going to be made known. To whom? Who's this being addressed?

The body of Christ? I don't think so. The Gentiles are large. Wherever they are, they're in heavenly places. Well, it's to be made known to the principalities and powers, is it not? We're going to come back to that in a second, but I just think in terms of putting this in context, we're not talking about the church. The church is the vehicle. But the recipient is the principalities and powers in heavenly places. We're going to have to see who those people are.

What aspects of this wisdom of God come to mind here? Well, I'm just going to jump to the chase here. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God. How unsearchable are his judgments and his ways past finding out, huh? I mean, where do we stop? What's wisdom versus knowledge? Isn't wisdom applied knowledge? Yeah, I think that's a simple kind of colloquial and spiritual definition. God's wisdom is his ultimate and infinite knowledge and the wisdom that he puts in each one of us is our knowledge put to task by our faith.

In context here, this perhaps the combining of the Jews and the Gentiles? That's again why we read 1-12. That's kind of the mystery that in part is being related to by Paul here to us today and to the believing church back in the apostolic times about the fact that the Jew and Gentile are made one. We're going to come back to that in the verses that follow.

Roger, did you have a thought? I think this whole context, this mystery has been revealed now about how the church wasn't in view until Paul revealed it basically. The church wasn't in view in the Old Testament. I mean think about the wisdom of God as applied to the Jew in the entire Old Testament now being made one with the Gentile in terms of the body of Christ. I mean that's really a spectacular event. I mean the believing Jew even had no idea what was to follow here. but now we're gonna come again to this in more detail in a second.

Who are the principalities and powers in the heavenly places? Who are these people? They're beings. Isn't it like the fallen angels? Well, it could be fallen. Well, it says in heavenly places, so I don't think they're fallen. I don't know if Satan has access to heaven.

Wow, this is great class. I wish we had an audience response system here where you could answer now what your thoughts are and then I'm going to perhaps teach this and then we're going to take another Alright, so are these angels? And if so, which ones? Are you looking ahead at the handout, aren't you? I'm going to quit giving you guys handouts. What? Dude. Somebody look up dude in scripture here. You sound like one of my sons. Dude. Alright. So are these holy angels? If they're angels, are they the holy ones? Well, let's look at that as a possibility. What's going on here? There we are.

1 Timothy 3.16, and without controversy, Great is the mystery, another mystery of godliness. God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, and received up to glory. So the angels showed up here in terms of the Lord Jesus Christ's appearance in life.

1 Peter 1.12 To them it was revealed that not to themselves, but to us, they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those." So we're talking about angels here. "...who have preached the gospel to you by Holy Spirit, sent from heaven, things which angels desire to look upon."

Angels seem to be learning. They're learning from what God is doing in the living world. How are they doing looking at your life, Roger? I'm not meaning to put you on the spot. Who are these angels? In fact, we had a Bible study last night that we weren't sure how many were coming, so I set a place at the table when we were studying Hebrews 13 about entertaining angels unknown, right? But that person never showed up, so anyway. We had one place setting with water in the glass and everything, but we had no one show up. So we were ready. Or is it the evil angels? And I think Roger's correct. They have access to heavenly places.

Ephesians 6.12, Tom, is what you referred to. For we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, and against powers, and against the rulers of darkness of this age, against spiritual host of wickedness in heavenly places. So what do you think here? Well let's pause here a second.

Is there a difference between evil angels and fallen angels? Tom, what are your thoughts? There is a difference between demons and the angels who went along with the Lord. Are you equating evil with demons? On that side, let's just say. Does the evil angel have an opportunity to be witnessed to by in fact this verse? Let's go back to the verse. To the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be, by the way, could be, maybe, will not be, made known by the church, us, to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. Are we witnessing the evil angels who are not yet fallen?

I'm just throwing this out. I don't have an answer. No, you don't think so. Okay. So you're equating evil with fallen. Okay. Tom, are you equating evil with fallen? Richard, which are a little harder. Don't want to just get categorical. Let's let the class continue. I'll not be calling on you anymore.

Alright, so you think that this role of the church then is to, if you will, behold the angels, or those who in fact are watching our walk, working with us in our walk, etc. Now, this verse is not to make us study angels in detail. That's a whole class in its own right, and I think no one's going to have the final conclusion. I'm not sure we all understand angels, no matter how much we study them. But nevertheless, the feeling then is that we're not witnessing to evil angels. But think about it, the church is a witness to the unsaved world, or fallen ones if you will, until they come to be saved. Alright, and it's the church. from which this instruction, to which this instruction... I'm not going to waver the point, but the evil angels don't have a chance. The fallen man has a chance until Christ comes to accept Christ. The fallen angels do not have any chance.

They've made the decision. So it seems to me that they're not going to change their minds. They can't. They've already made their choice. The only ministry can be the holy angels that I see. Otherwise we're going to have to... That would be consistent with what many commentators say, but some don't actually. It's not total agreement here, but I think that's probably the best position at the end.

And it's the church from which this instruction comes. I mean, it's back to the verse. Might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in heavenly places. All right. Perhaps a better translation will help here. In order that there might be made known, this is, I think, weest. It might be made known now to the principalities and powers, so we move that forward in the verse, in the heavenly places through the intermediate agency of the church, the much variegated or diverse or manifold wisdom of God. Does that help a little bit, you think? in order that there might be made known now to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places through the intermediate agency of the church. The much manifold wisdom of God.

I think that's helpful. And that's not, I think that's just Wiese's translation. I think it works a little bit better. And I looked at some of the other versions, the New American Standard and the New International, and it didn't help us here very much, but this does, I think. Alright, let's go on, and I'm combining 11 and 12 here. Cut.

So was there a conclusion here that there is, let's see, there are spiritual hosts of wickedness that still are remaining in heaven? Well, I think they're in heavenly places, but they're not of the Lord, right? And can these wicked So let's look at Ephesians 6.12, Pat. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the principalities and powers in heavenly places. I mean, so they presumably are still there, have access, but are basically powerless.

Well, and the other thing is, are there various heavenly places, plural, and they're not in where God is, but they're in other heavenly places? Still warring against this? I'm thinking of that instance when Jesus was casting out demons, and one of the demons or group of demons objected, saying, That's the second time. So are there different places and heavenly places? I don't know.

Actually, Roger. which is not obviously a church age book, but it shows that Satan had access. He came before Jesus and God asked him, where have you been? And he said, I've been out making, doing mischief, doing bad stuff. And there's a whole dialogue that goes on between Satan and God.

And so they have some access in some way, but I don't think we're told enough to know. But we know as the body we are placed in the right hand of God, which is entirely in Christ, is it not? And so these heavenly places, if they go beyond that, they don't have access. But in a sense, why are we struggling against them then? Why is Ephesians 6? against the rulers of the darkness of the vestiges, spiritual hosts of witnesses in the heavenly places.

That's all I can say about that. That's what the verse says. Now, Ephesians 6, I mean, I'm going to be smarter by then, maybe, and never mind. I'll be out of town on that one. I already know this. By the way, the schedule is not out yet. In fact, I'm going to be gone between July 1 and December 31. And you never know, looking at the schedule, it's changed since I gave you the dates.

Alright, 11 and 12. According to the eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in him. And it's good to see Paul use a period in Ephesians. There aren't many. There's lots of commas. Chapter one was comma after comma. Anyway, all right. Then that's not Paul. All right. And his eternal of the ages purpose. What? Eternal purpose. What's his eternal purpose? Well, Clark, this seems to refer to the complete round of the Jewish system and that of the gospel. You don't have to agree with that.

But I think and recall that the church is now one. So, yeah, Tom. You mentioned somewhere else in scripture that it's the summing of all things in Christ, the ultimate end. OK. OK, remember what preceded this a little bit in terms of the Jew and the Gentile being made one in Christ. And recall the church is now one in Christ Jesus and my kind of comment on that is the Jew and Gentile, man and woman, black and white, rich and poor, strong and weak. And Christ's work on the cross was and continues to be the great equalizer of all time. And the eternal purpose is to bring all men to be saved, right? There is no bias there. There's no prejudice there. There's no diversity there.

We live in an age where diversity keeps getting emphasized in my workplace. I never hear the end of diversity. in terms of faculty, in terms of faculty promotions, and now in the vice chancellor's office, in terms of medical students, and on and on and on. I never hear the end of it. And of course, you're never meeting whatever this three-shoulder goal is.

That doesn't mean from an earthly perspective that diversity isn't relevant, but that's the age in which we live. But at the cross, there's no diversity. It's a worldview perspective. Isn't that wonderful? You know, when people really want to carry on a conversation about bias and prejudice to its ultimate extent, it's a great opportunity to share the gospel. Because the cross is the great equalizer for all men and women for all time. There's no race there. There's no richness. There's no poverty. There's no kind of diversity of any kind.

And you know, it's not the cross. I mean, the cross is the vehicle, but it's Christ's work on the cross. And in my studies on my way to work, I'm in Leviticus now, and Jerry Furter McGee just a couple days reminded us of that. It's just not the cross. It's the work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross.

I think it's a neat place to pause. Whether in fact the eternal purpose relates to the Jew and the Gentile only, I think Tom put it correctly, is God's ultimate goal for all men to be saved. But it's a good time for me to be subjective in my additional view of this whole arena. And notice it's in Christ Jesus our Lord. The eternal purpose is in our Savior.

Christ Jesus our Lord, what about Lordship Salvation? That's not in your handout. Are we living in Lordship Salvation? Why is he called Jesus Christ our Lord? Because we have a personal relationship with him. So he is our Lord, the Church's Lord, but this is not Lordship Salvation, right? people familiar with this kind of scenario? Okay, well, you know, lordship salvation looked for by the the Jew is really putting God's law in their hearts during the Millennial Kingdom. That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about our personal Lord, right?

Alright, Ephesians 111, in Him also we have obtained an inheritance being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of his will. We studied that before. It's all about him. No comments. You always have tough questions, Pat. And I'm going to give it to Roger or Tom if I can. This looks similar to just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world. I know I was at one Bible class and they said, this idea of predestination just means that all those who are saved are going to be saved in Christ. It's not that we were pre-numbers. could be saved.

It's just that what was known is that anybody that is saved is going to be saved through Christ. You see the difference in that? So where does this idea of being individually recognized before the foundation of the world versus salvation is going to be in the Well, it's kind of like the Book of Life that's described in Revelation. I mean, God knows who will be in the Book of Life, but it's up to us to make that choice by faith.

I mean, we're not predestined to be saved, but He's predestined all men to be saved. Some become saved and some do not. And that the predestination is in that salvation for all men at all times. But yet, the Book of Life is known as to who will be saved. I mean, God would have all to be saved. We can't ignore that truth. So there's no kind of, if you will, Calvinistic idea that if you're not chosen to be in that book, you're not predestined.

But you know also, I always think of that, and we talked about this before. We work in time and space. The Lord, however, there's no time and space. So he looks at everything as if it's one point. He knows who's going to be saved, because he has this view. It's hard to get our head around that, because we only have time and space that we understand. But he doesn't have that. He's omnipotent, so he already knows. It's kind of hard. I think we won't know the total answer to that until we're there. And we can ask him that question. I mean, you know what I'm saying? I think it's a hard concept. Any other thoughts on this? Alright, another couple of verses to share.

Therefore, do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me, his prisoner. Now it's interesting, me, his prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings of the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose, and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Eternity. Back to your question, Pat. Those who become saved have all of his capabilities to be predestinated in us by our faith. We've got to respond by faith. We're not robots. It's an act of faith. And now we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

So we'll look at that a little bit more. And how do you view this boldness with access and access with confidence? Well, let's look at the terms. Boldness, in terms of the Thayer definition, is the freedom of speech and unreservedness of speech. Take anything to the Lord. Gosh, I had some bad things going on today, Father. Just let it hang out, right?

So we have that boldness and confidence, meaning we're completely persuaded that we can go to Him in full access and with faith. Again, the Schofield definition is one I like, believing what God's revealed. Let's look at some verses to support this kind of opportunity we have to go to the Lord in boldness with confidence and by faith.

Hebrews 3.6, but Christ is the Son over his own house whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence in the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. So that confidence, we need to hold fast that confidence and that's an act of faith. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace that we might obtain mercy and find grace in time of need." Notice the throne is of grace. It's not of works to be rewarded. It's by grace that we might in fact have works that bring glory. Margaret?

Well also, doesn't it reflect the way the Jews were? Because they couldn't go in to the... the holy of holies no direct access once a year and even the pagan religions you didn't have access you had to go through these priests and priestesses and all kinds of stuff so the whole environment at the time so this access was a new thing that you can actually communicate directly with Christ our God. That was totally a new concept. Well, keep in mind the Ephesians and many other epistles are related to the time of idols and idol worship, right? And they didn't have direct access or confidence or go boldly.

Alright, Hebrews 10.19, Therefore, brethren, having boldened the standard of holiness by the blood of Jesus, particularly relevant to the Jew, and again keep in mind that in context this Jew-Gentile mix in the church is a concept that's part of this mystery that's now being revealed.

Hebrews 10.35, therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. Again, if we're not confident or really, you know, look at confidence, completely persuaded. Our confidence is the fact that we know the truth and the truth will set us free. And once we're set free, we can be free indeed. What does that mean? When Christ said that I will set you free and you will be free indeed. What's that freedom? Perfect and I didn't ask her to say this before the class this morning. She's learning that from someplace, Roger. Must be yours and Randy's teaching here. Romans 5, 1 and 2.

Therefore having been justified by faith, we're justified by faith. Our sins are forgiven. The sin nature has been dealt with. We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ through whom we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand and rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

Boy, you know, Scripture is so repetitive, isn't it? It's so redundant that people who question the Bible in terms of its accuracy takes me back to cold case Christianity. We talked about this last night. If you would take this legally by an unbeliever to the courtroom, you'd have unequivocal evidence of the truth of the gospel.

And here is just some example of that redundancy in terms of boldness to enter in, the confidence we have by faith that all has been given to us, and we respond by faith. So what kind of relationship is this anyway? What do you think? What's this relationship like? Well, let's look here a little bit more.

Romans 8.15, For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the spirit of adoption. And we cry out, Abba, Father. So what kind of relationship is this? Family. Right. We're adopted sons and daughters. I mean, we are in Christ as a family. Good answer, Carol.

Ephesians 2.18, For through him We have both access by one Spirit to the Father.

Notice the Trinity as portrayed in Ephesians 2.18. So let's go back to the verse again. According to the eternal purpose that all would be saved, It was accomplished in Christ Jesus, our personal Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

Wow. Hard to beat that as a take-home message, is it? All right. Is this what we're experiencing? Let each one of us deal with that personally. Remember, that's where our citizenship is with our family, and that's at the right hand. And remember, we're not robots. God doesn't plug us in and zap. We're acting as believers. We have to respond by faith. That's our active responsibility. If we're not responding by faith, the flesh rules.

The neat thing about being saved is that we come to him in fellowship and say, Lord, we're acting in a person that you've not seen us in. You're seeing me in Christ. Thank you. Get back in Christ is what the Lord calls us to. That's an act of faith. Not easy sometimes. Therefore, I ask you that you do not lose heart. Some say it's faint not.

At my tribulations for you, which is your glory. Interesting verse, isn't it? That you do not lose heart at my tribulations. What about your tribulations? What about my tribulations, Paul? I don't care about yours. It's what I'm going through. Isn't Paul the incredible exception? When we look at his tribulations you say, thank you Lord, you didn't choose me. Paul's tribulations are pretty astounding.

And we turn back to verse 8. Unto me who am less than the least of all saints. Think about that. Paul who considers himself less than the least of all saints. How's that for a superlative? Because he persecuted them. Well, whatever. I don't care what he did or who. And by the way, Timothy says that same thing again that doesn't necessarily relate to what he did as a Jew. Okay, so let's put this in perspective if we can. Remember, spirit led, I hope.

Therefore, what's it there for right? Well, it's there for because of Ephesians 3 1 through 12, and that's why I asked Margaret to read You know everything up to 10 that and now 11 and 12 that precedes this verse To not lose heart and some versions faint not I like faint not it's kind of old, you know King James stuff, but I kind of like faint faint not I And it's to avoid acting cowardly or being spirit-led. Sorry for the spelling, the typo there. Got an I after spirit-y bled. Why are you laughing? No, I'm just kidding. I don't ask Margaret to look at it because there will be too many changes if she looked at it.

I love you, sweetie. Okay, to what is Paul speaking about here? Class. What's he talking about here? teach in a classroom, you ask a class a question. Are they sleeping? Do they care? Never mind. Alright, so what's Paul speaking about here? Here's what he says.

Paul's tribulations were endured in their behalf and were of value for them. Okay? I mean, that's true of each one of us in terms of our witness to one another, isn't it? The greater the office of the sufferer the more did the afflictions which he was content to endure for them redound to their honor, or meaning, or reflect to their honor. And the better this was understood by them, the less should they give away to weakness and discouragement. I think it's a kind of a good assessment.

Hebrews 13.3. Tom, if you were awake last night, which I think you were, we studied this lesson. Remember the prisoners as if chained with them. Those who are mistreated, since you yourselves are in the body also. That's kind of what we're reflecting here. The suffering of one another within this class, within this body at Holly Hills and within the church as a whole, is something we need to perceive and suffer with them, albeit at a distance.

So my brother-in-law, I mean I know quite well, was Sharon's brother. And his marriage to Fran, Sharon and I went to that marriage and ultimately we saw them bear two children, our niece and nephew we've known over the years. So what they're going through now in marriage after 50 years of marriage is heartbreaking for us. Margaret shares in that to some extent, too, because she knows them well now. And they've accepted her fully as my ongoing wife and stepmother of my kids.

And it's been great. But boy, their situation is very, very ugly right now. So in a sense, that's what this is all about. How many of these tribulations do you think related to the Jew-Gentile issue? I think some of them probably did. I mean, here's Paul, a Pharisee. who now is saying the law has no worth to the church. I mean the law is perfectly holy but we can't live by the law and the Jew and the Gentile are now one. I think some of these tribulations probably related to that. Now Paul himself learned to rejoice in his tribulations and were encouraged by them and he encourages us to do the same.

So 2nd Corinthians 12.10 Therefore, I take pleasure in infirmities. How you doing there? Not so well, I think, all of us. In reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake, for when I am weak, then I'm strong. Boy, you know, it's kind of coming to the end of ourselves.

It's not kind of like we do so much and we reach a point, oh my gosh, I need God's help. No, it's kind of seeing the weakness we are in the flesh from the very beginning, and by faith seeing that it's only His strength that can bear outcomes that are to His glory and to the glory of the body. So we're looking at one another, although we shouldn't look horizontally, we look vertically, and we don't look up. Remember, we keep looking down, because that's where He's positioned us. But when we look aside at our brothers and sisters going through struggles, it hurts each one of us, doesn't it?

I mean, those with children, with siblings, with parents who are going through things, I mean, we're bothered by that. We should be. And that's what Paul's talking about here. I now rejoice in my sufferings. God says, Paul, who is this guy, anyway, for you? And fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ for the sake of his body, which is the church. I rejoice in my sufferings for you.

And that's kind of what he's again dealing with here in Ephesians 3.13. Wait, wait, you can't leave that. What is lacking in the afflictions of Christ? He made the perfect sacrifice, what is lacking? Is that a question?

Well, this was just a verse to point at and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ for the sake of his body. Well, I think what that says is that ultimately in his earthly existence, not his fleshly sin nature, but which is it fell up in my flesh what is... no, in my flesh though meaning his flesh. Well, no, but for I now rejoice in my, it's my sufferings and fill up in my flesh. I'm talking about Paul. That's not talking about Christ. I'm talking about Paul. So in his earthly existence, not his sin nature, in my flesh, what's lacking in the afflictions of Christ?

In other words, he wants to put on Christ what Christ went through for the sake of his body, meaning one another. That's kind of what we're talking about here. Somebody's suffering, everybody's suffering, and ultimately that's to God's glory because of the afflictions of Christ and what he suffered. So we're putting on Christ. Christ suffered in the absence of sin to God's glory.

And that's really what we're a part of as the body. So in here, not losing heart was to their glory. Let's look back at the verse again. Which is your glory. Our glory is in Pat's sufferings, or Ralph's sufferings, or Regan's sufferings. That's to our glory, because we're putting it into perspective. That's kind of interesting.

And what I'm going to ask next is, I thought everything was to God's glory. I mean, 1 Corinthians 4, 9, 10. For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last as men condemned to death. For we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.

We're fools for Christ's sakes, but we're wise in Christ. We're weak, but you're strong. Again, we're weak, you're strong. You're distinguished, but we are dishonored. But I thought again, all the glory went to God. Well, it does. For me to live is Christ and die is gain. So that's the glory goes to God.

Galatians 6.9. And let us not grow weary while doing good, meaning the Christ left by faith. For in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart or we do not faint. So what Paul is doing through this verse is saying that don't lose heart at someone else's tribulations like we all have, friends, family, and beyond who go through trials and strains.

Which is your glory? Hard to kind of figure that out, isn't it? we get the glory that ultimately that Christ's life we're living ultimately returns that glory to God. It doesn't say that here, but I think that's true. It's to God's glory how we deal with the trials and tribulations of our brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Any thoughts about these four verses? the class is done. Anybody? Any thoughts? Any perspectives that were not covered or adequately dealt with? So some questions we answered, some we didn't. Where these heavenly places are, Pat, we didn't answer that one adequately. I didn't want to make this a study of angels to any further extent than I did, but I think we do conclude that that's the witnesses to the holy angels are those who are if you will, the good versus bad angels.