Lesson 36c & begin 8:29-30 Lesson 37a

Lesson 36, and I'm just going to do the last couple of questions. Courtney finished up with question eight. The question was, does a called one mean that they're issued an invitation? No, it's not an invitation. As it says, we are specifically called by God's grace, and we didn't get into the discussion last week, which I think is probably good because everybody understands that, you know, how could God call some and not others? And the simple answer to that is that if you think anybody deserves salvation, if you're not called, you're not going to go. So does God have the right to call?

Sure he does.

But if you'll notice how he does things, the call goes out to everyone. Like Mount Stanford used to say, when you're walking up the road to heaven there's this big sign over the gate that says whosoever will may come but when you walk through the gate and turn around and look at the back of the sign it says chosen from the foundations of eternity well figure that one out I'm just glad we're there and it was by his grace that we got there no other way because nobody in this room earned it so question nine how important is this verse to a believer in regards to the circumstances which come up in their lives the verses 828 that God works all things together for good to those who love him to those who are called according to his purpose so we talked about God being the one who works all things together for good God is the one who decides what good is I don't get to decide that so he's working every everything together in your life whether you recognize it or not every little nuance God is working together for good I personally had an example this last week with everything that transpired with Jack the effect it had on so many people and people that we know that we know that are not necessarily believers but it was inspiring to them to come and see, to be here people from Donna's office were there and others and they've never seen anything like that before an actual home going celebration they've never seen one of those memorial services are usually somber and this was anything but that and the gospel message was presented by Roger he did a great job and so there it is the Christian message of salvation and new life in Christ played out right in front of everybody.

This is pretty cool. So that's part of the all things.

And in your life, you know, when I have somebody call me and start complaining about their Christian life is too tough because I've got kind of a, well sometimes, nasty personality, I'll say to them, oh, that's right. Whatever your problem is was not included at the cross, right? Your sin wasn't paid for.

That circumstance does not fit under Romans 8.28, right? What are you going to say in response to that? You have to say, well, I guess it is. I guess it is.

R.A. Torrey said that Romans 8.28 is a soft pillow for a tired heart. Isn't that a great line? 28 and 29 should go together, though. They will, but that's what JD's going to pick up. It's 29. Yeah, don't get ahead. That's right.

The other thing that's interesting about Romans chapter 8 is that so far up until this verse, we've been dealing with the human will and its consent, for us to consent to walk in the Spirit, But from verse 28 to the end of the chapter, now this is all God. Every word is God.

And as you live your life, you can look back and say, well, there was an experience that was given by the Lord. He gave that experience to me. And that's what these 28 through the end of the chapter are really all about. I might be pretty dull. and my circumstance is pretty dull, but there's a lesson that I'm learning and you're learning as we go through this, that here's the first part of it, that a living faith can rejoice in a living God. That's from Newell.

Even if your feeling and your experience appear to contradict the promise of Romans 8.28, I find that the biggest issue in Christians in their life in terms of living is that they just won't live by faith they want to live by how they feel about stuff rather than what God says and so the rejoicing God tells us in his word overwhelmingly these blessings and because our feelings are negative today or our experiences maybe appears to be contradictory, we look at God and say, yeah, but how about how I feel? What does he say back to you? Read my word. Read over it. No, he doesn't say read my word.

And the second thing you learn is that the divine life only predominates as the life of the flesh is held in the place of death and operative. We don't talk enough about that around here. One of the jobs of the Holy Spirit, and a really big job, is to apply the cross of Christ to your old man. Why does He do that?

Because if you try to do it, it's law. You can't do it. It's impossible for you to do. But we don't think so. finally say, Uncle, I quit. And so God has made every provision not only for my position but also for my condition and the Spirit of God is the one that implements it. And one of the parts of that is to keep my old man inactive. And the way he does it is apply the cross. And what do I do? I trust him from his word about I have been crucified with Christ. Am I or not? Yes.

And it's up to him to hold that old man inactive. To the degree that that old man is held inactive is the degree to which the resurrected life of Christ can come forward. So there's a two part thing going on all the time. Both of those things are implemented by the Spirit of God. Both of them.

You can't keep your own sin nature inactive because you default to the law position. And you can't force the life of the Lord Jesus to come and be manifested in your experience. That's also legal and flesh-oriented. You can't do that. It's the work of the Spirit. It's a huge privilege for us to have the Spirit of God and to know what He's doing. Our job is to trust Him.

2 Corinthians 4.11 says that the life of the Lord Jesus is revealed as death works in us. The death that works in us is the application by the Holy Spirit of keeping your sin nature inactive. The problem that we have is that it appears to be weakness and nothingness to us. That's a really good thing. If you're weak in front of the Lord, what part of you is weak? Old man or new man? Old man. It's okay if he's weak, you know? So, okay. Question 10.

What's the purpose of this calling? And this kind of gets into what JD's going to talk about. When there's a purpose, If I come to you and say, well, I want to do so-and-so with the purpose to accomplish this, what's the purpose of your calling? The goal. The goal? The goal is 29. But what's the purpose of Romans 8, 28? To be conformed. Yeah. To be conformed to the enemy of Christ. That's 29, that's the image.

But what does 28 tell us? Very interesting thing, that it's God who's doing the work, right? Yes, He's in charge. And He's in charge, and He's working. Only the stuff that you let Him do? No, the Spirit does it. Only the stuff that you're spiritually mature enough to have an understanding about? No, we just hang out and rest. I like the second part of that, hanging out. I've never been able to hang out. I'm always exercised. But I'm at rest. Do you understand the difference?

The point that what he's doing in 828 is convincing the believer that he's in charge. That he's the one that is carrying out his purpose. It's his purpose. Now, do I have a decision to make? Does my purpose line up with him? Or, maybe put it this way, what's most important in your life? Your spiritual growth? Or conformity to Christ? Are they the same thing? Well, basically it's the same, but I think conforming to Christ is more important than anything. Yeah, because conformity to Christ doesn't have you in it.

Right. If I'm talking about my spiritual growth, I'm going to let J.D. deal with that. If you're talking about spiritual growth caused by God... What is spiritual growth, by the way? I don't know about that. What is it? If I say to him, Russ, are you growing spiritually? Well, he'd say, definitely. He wouldn't dare say anything else. What is spiritual growth? Weakness reveals power. What's that? Could it be the extent of the Holy Spirit living and working through us? Or could it be looked at as being more and more conformed to the image of Christ? That's right. That's right. That's what it is. But we've got to get it in our minds and in our hearts and by faith resonant that there is no circumstance in your life from the day you were saved that's not moving towards that purpose. God is not interested in making you a good, you know, take a shower, dress up, go to church on Sunday Christian. That's not what he's doing. You know, he's not making you appear to be a Christian. But he uses that. He uses mostly negative, mostly negative, you know.

And one more point. And then JD gets to come up. Are trials and tribulations the thing that cause you to grow? Let me say yeah. Let me say no. See, I got her well trained. She knows. The answer is no. You know why? Because it's the life. What conforms you to the image of Christ? What activity? The Holy Spirit. No. He doesn't. And what do you do? What are you doing? Suffering? Or what are you doing?

You're beholding. That's the key part. The suffering gets you ready to behold. The suffering doesn't conform you. The beholding does. And the last thing I would say is that spiritual growth at some point stops being about the elements of spiritual growth and begins to be about the person of Christ. That he, as a person, begins to be more important to me than answering all the questions right. Or learning all the steps. He is the pearl. He, personally, is the pearl of Inescapable Value.

So whether you're suffering or not, it's beholding Christ that causes growth. That's right. Well, the suffering tends to turn us in this direction. Yeah, and the world suffers anyway. But you can't go to a non-believer and say, everything that's going on in your life is a conformity to Christ. No, it's not. Alright, so lesson 37. Let's read verses 29 and 30 and then we'll jump in.

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren. And these whom He predestined, He also called. And these whom He called, He also justified. And these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Alright, let the fight begin. This has broken up a lot of churches. Maybe some families too. It's not the purpose, though. Mike was talking about the purpose. So we're going to start over. What is God's purpose? That's where Mike kind of left us with. And I think these next two verses really unpack that whole answer to that whole question. We're looking at five different words, throughout verses 29 and 30 that really educate us as to what God is up to.

We talk about foreknowledge. We talk about predestination. We'll start writing that down here. Foreknowledge. That'll be the first one we get to. We'll write these up as we keep going. God's up to something. There's a bigger plan here, right? There was a plan that was before time. that unfolds and secures our future. I'm in security. I like the idea of maintaining security, right? Computer security. This is bigger than that. This is far bigger in the sense that this has to do with your security in his plan, in his purpose. Each of these five things work together to secure something for you.

So when we look at these verses, oftentimes we get into a situation where we start to look at them from our perspective. There's two different perspectives in the scripture. What are they? What are the different ways of looking at truths in the scripture? Principle. Okay. I think you're right. So what I want you to keep in mind as I work through some of these verses today, and then Mike you're going to pick up next week, is that there is this situation that when not understood from a scriptural standpoint, they can get you into a lot of hairy understanding with regards to these particular verses.

And that is the creator-creature distinction. I think that a lot of times we as believers acknowledge that there's a God's perspective and a creature perspective. I think we sometimes make the habit of trying to think that we can do things like God can. From the very beginning of time, in the book of Genesis, God distinguishes between himself and his creation.

He lives in eternity. You live in what? Time. So there's two different ways of looking at these verses. And when you blend time with eternity, you're violating that creator-creature distinction. You're getting into a situation where you're trying to put your time-based perspective on what God has done in eternity.

Can you do that? The only way you can do it is to refer to Scripture. And what do you end up with? Faith in what you can't understand sometimes? Ever been in that situation? That's what some of this verse has to do with. You may not fully understand how God accomplishes these things for your security, but you have to remember that you were based in time. There's another thing.

What about logic? Does God think like us? No? He's not logical? Or maybe you're not logical. I'm just saying it's not the same. And the level is not the same. Paul does. I would say the difference is that we think sequentially. God doesn't think sequentially.

He has all knowledge in play right now. And our minds aren't capable of doing that. We have finite knowledge, right? He's infinitely knowledgeable, right? So, we've used the term kind of like, there's God's meta-logic, and then there's our creature finite logic. Now, our finite logic should be a subset of our Creator's logic. We don't always operate logically, but human logic is a finite derivative of God's logic, right? So, where we end in our logic, where do we go from there? If we're trying to understand eternal things of our Creator, and our logic is finite, how do we understand these things?

By faith. By faith in what? The Word of God. You're exactly right. Without scripture, all you have is finite logic and you cannot understand this eternal plan that God has for you. This purpose, God's purpose, will never be understood with human logic alone. It can be comprehended But without the scripture, you're not going to understand the eternal plan of God. And then even still, at this point in time, you're still limited with time.

You're still living in time right now. So we have to depend on scripture. So for us, foreknowledge, just to refer to these five things, for us foreknowledge and predestination precede time and calling. So they come before. Justification and glorification occur in a sequence of time. but not so for God, even though he can also view it from the standpoint of time and does accomplish it in time. Does that make sense? Well, let's see. Predestination. I was called before the foundation of the world. I stepped through. There was the invitation. I stepped through the door and I looked back and it says, predestined from the foundation of the world to be conformed to the image of His Son. Yeah, we're going to get there for sure.

I think the first two words in verses 29, foreknowledge and predestination, they're highly controversial. But before we look at them, if you look at verse 30, you're going to see how how Paul puts them all together in what we might call this great golden chain of redemption. This chain has a sequence. And we start where it starts. And if we jump ahead, we might lose sight of the way God's purpose is being unfolded in these verses.

And so, the real point I want to clarify is that this purpose is tied to this. Alright? We've talked about how the entire creation is yearning for our glorification, eagerly awaiting. Remember that? So we've removed the creation side of things, and now we're looking at this golden chain of redemption, or what we're referring to as God's purpose.

Other students of the Word have called it decrees, God's decree. And then, as we move through the five different components, those are the order of His decrees. The problem that exists in so many situations is that we try to look at this decree and this order of decree from our perspective. And so when I start this class by saying that creator-creature distinction is critical to this, it will make a difference in terms of how we interpret it, how we understand it for ourselves. If we try to incorporate this into our system, where do you end up? A lot of hairy conversations with a lot of gnarly folks.

I've been there. I've been on both sides of this one. So, question number one. Who is it that God foreknew, and what does the word foreknow mean? So, context, context, context. Have you ever heard that? Context is key. Do we need to go outside of this verse to understand what this means? There's a lot here. God does not foreknow all men. He only foreknows who? Believers. So now we've got the second part of that verse.

Why do you believe that? Why do you believe that this is talking about believers? Because of the context. And what context provides you that insight? It was called according to your purpose. So is an unbeliever not called according to his purpose? No. Would that be? Not to the point that they believe. You're right. Would that be a part of Calvinism? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I think back in 28, though, it's the very first word that's important. That we love God. Because the lovers of God are the ones that are all these other words pertain to. Yet, we recognize from Scripture that we love Him because He first loved us. There's no other way. So in verse 28, and we know that God caused all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. You get to the end of verse 30, and what's the last word?

Glorified. Who's that? It's you. It's believers. So God does not foreknow all men. He only foreknows believers. What do you think about that? Does that make sense? We need to know what this means. What does it mean that He foreknew you? Because verse 29 says it's the same group that God foreknew that He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Didn't He foreknew all? That's not what it says here. Because of Adam? He planned every person. What's that? He planned every person.

So we could say that we have an eternal person. Each person is a creation of God. And he knows them as a creature. As his creation. But this is different. God doesn't ever say that he foreknows an unbeliever. He only says he foreknew believers. He also says he foreknew his son.

Those groups, in terms of the number of number identical, so I'm sorry, these groups are number for identical and, I wrote my sentence here. So let's look at this word. The word itself in Greek is pro-gnosko, okay? So there's two parts here. What's the first part? Pro, what does that mean? Before in Gnosko means to know. You have to know before, to know in advance.

So it doesn't say, we're not saying that God knew everything in advance. Does God know everything in advance? What are we talking about? His omniscience, right? To Him it's not even in advance. To us it's in advance. Absolutely right. So He's omniscient. We're talking about the omniscience of God. Is that what this is? Is this foreknowledge? Omniscience? Is it the same thing as family? Can we say that foreknowledge is a subset of omniscience but not equivalent to? Would that be the difference between a Jew and a Christian?

Back up five minutes, we were talking about God's knowledge, that it's eternal, which means that He has all knowledge in play right now. Yet my knowledge is sequential. So I'm in time, and I'm thinking this minute, and the next minute, and the next minute, and the next minute. So I can predict, you know, or have a goal that I want to accomplish. But God has, and it's It's difficult for me with my mind to understand that God actually has all knowledge, personal and factual, now.

You know, when he says he foreknew me, it's not a time issue. Right. And what's also interesting is that he doesn't say he foreknew believers. So this can't be just omissions. Because he's limiting his foreknowledge to a certain subset of people, and that is believers. So there's something about this foreknowledge that's very unique and it's specific to believers.

Otherwise, he just would have said omniscient. I mean, we're talking about omniscience and it would apply to everybody. Does he know whether you're going to believe or not? Sure. Does he call you according to that? No. Okay. So what these verses are doing are illustrating an eternal perspective on you as a believer. Okay?

We've got to recognize that foreknowledge is a subset of omniscience because it applies to a certain group of people and he does not know the unbeliever in the way that he knows you. Constable says, notice that it is only those whom he foreknows that he predestines, not everyone. This indicates a limited foreknowledge, not just general knowledge of everyone and everything. Why is it limited?

Can God do anything? That's a trick question. He fell right into it. He just gives an invitation. Can God do anything? He can, but it's not His purpose to do that. He can't do anything outside of His character. He has to remain 100% within His character. Because He's God. So, it's not a limitation that applies to Him from an outside source. the decision of a holy and righteous God to operate within His character. So when we say, who limits God in His foreknowledge? Who limits it? He does. He limited His foreknowledge.

I am not going to foreknow unbelievers. I am going to make a choice to foreknow believers. And this happens in the eternity past and it's not based in time. So our logic is not going to kick in and really fully grasp this from the perspective that we will when we are glorified in eternity. We're not going to fully understand how He foreknew us. But there's an interesting observation that helps clarify what foreknowledge really means.

Foreknowledge is a subset of omniscience and is limited to believers. This is a critical point. Second, what God foreknew is believers, not what believers would do. Read that again. What God foreknew is believers, not what believers would do. The text says those whom He foreknew and he's using the personal pronoun, masculine gender, this means he foreknew the people.

Under omniscience, God does know what a person will do, but that's not foreknowledge. Foreknowledge is the knowledge of a believer. Does God know what you're going to do? That's omniscience. Does God know you? That's foreknowledge. It's knowing you in a personal way. Oh, sorry. Let Mike finish. I was just reading in the news. The foreknowledge is a pre acquaintance. I like that word. I've got that written down as well. Think about what that word means a pre acquaintance. He's pre acquainted with you as a believer. He's not acquainted with an unbeliever. He's quite acquainted with you in a personal way. That's what foreknowledge has to do with that.

Yeah, I think the other element here that has to be included is the fact that God created humanity with this incredible thing called free will. And he can't, because he limited himself with the creature to be able to choose against him. He knows who's going to choose for him and against him. He knew what Adam was going to do, but he didn't interfere. And so because he's in eternity, because he thinks eternally, all knowledge right now, he knows that you and I, he knew us personally in Christ before he ever created Adam.

But we're trying to put a timeout on it, and I don't know how to do that. You can't. But I know because he tells me in his word, this is what I do when I'm done. And so I believe him. If he wants to explain it to me, fine. If he doesn't, that's what we do. Right. Well, I think that we've got, we definitely have enough information here We have exactly what we need, right? We're not missing something. Are our thoughts His thoughts? No. Are His thoughts higher than our thoughts? Yeah. Now, do you operate by faith according to that truth? Yeah. You have to understand where you're in. You're a creature.

He's the Creator. I'm glad He knows eternally more than I do. I am very thankful He's omniscient. I also think that right there in that knowledge, if we believe him about things, he doesn't come to us through his spirit and give us the PhD course on how to understand it. He just persuades us that what he told us is true. So I could rest in that without a long explanation and logic. to be able to make it my own. I trust Him because He's the one who said it. Right.

And I think one of the key distinctions that I came about when I was looking at this is that we can't confuse this with omniscience. Because omniscience, God's omniscience knows exactly what you're going to do, but His foreknowledge is not concerned with your doing. It's concerned with who you are. And that pre-acquaintance is a very, very good word. Was he pre-acquainted with me before he created you?

Yes. That's what it says. Before the foundation of the world. Wow. That's amazing. That's where that in is. Typically this gets all theologically hairy. That's not what the purpose of these verses are. This is not meant to be fought over and for us to say, were you predestined to become a believer? Were you called? Did God foreknow you? That's not what this is about.

Paul is using these verses for comfort. Remember verse 28. Working together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. This is about love. This is about God's purpose with believers in love, working all things together. And these words are showing how He's worked it together in the eternal past.

Why is it important to distinguish between foreknowledge and omniscience? So, if this was omniscience, then one could say, God foreknew you based on what you would do. That's not what this is saying. Based on believing? Yep. So, God foreknew you because He knew you would believe. That's not what this verse says. It's not in the scripture at all. God says He foreknew believers, so He knew them He was pre-acquainted with them in a way that he is not acquainted with unbelievers. It has nothing to do with whether or not you're going to do something. It's based on who you are as a believer. He knew that. Now... What's wrong with the first? Well... Where's that breakdown? Yeah, so God foreknew who would believe, and on the basis of foreseen things, He chose them. That's the problem. That's not biblical.

So this idea of God foreknew who would believe, and on the basis of foreseen faith, He chose them. If we allow this for omniscience, then we could make that case. That He was choosing based on your faith. Right? It's hard to separate it, though, because He did know we would believe. That's omniscience. But this core knowledge We didn't believe because He knew that we would. Right. But He knows everything.

So the idea, and we'll get into it, you're going to have to get into it next week with devil predestination. So if God predestined some to believe, and we've got to deal with that problem too, He predestined some to believe and He predestined some not to. Yeah, I see the problem with that. So once you get down this track, clarifying the foreknowledge as being a subset. This is talking about believers. If you allow it to be omniscience, and you get out of context, now you're talking about God sent people to hell. Yeah. That's a boner. Yeah. And Courtney and I have had this discussion for a lot of years. Sure.

Basically, not to take up all the time, but Human beings are identified with one of two men. One is Adam, and the other is Christ. Adam is a time-space guy built in the creation. The Lord Jesus Christ is the eternal man. So when I show up on the earth, or when Adam showed up on the earth, with a will, I have limited understanding of who God is other than in his creation.

But here's what happened, and I'm a time-regulated person. But the Bible is clear about the fact that at the point in time that I believe in the person and works of Christ, I leave time-space and am now separated out from Adam and identified or placed or baptized into Christ And once that happens, now I'm an eternal being, and now God can start saying things about me from an eternal perspective. That's a very good point. And what is he saying here? What is this pro-gnosco? He knew you relationally. This isn't an intellectual knowledge. This is a relationship knowledge. I'm pre-acquainted with you. I'm personally acquainted with you.

And another way to look at it is that non-believers are in Adam. And if they want to trace their history of existence, they go back to the garden. That's as far as they can go. Because heaven didn't exist before them. But once I'm in Christ, how far back does my existence go? Eternity. So I'm just going to read these last two statements because I know that it's easier to kind of compact this as opposed to kind of come at it from different angles. I'll restate what I said a moment ago.

This is another important distinction to grasp, because it is very common to hear in theological discussions that God foreknew who would believe, and on the basis of forcing faith, He chose them. And that's not a biblical idea. It confuses time with eternity, and bases God's knowledge on time. A very damaging error. God's knowledge is independent of time.

It's not based on what you do, it's based on a relationship knowledge that He has with you from eternity past. Further, it actually misses the richness of the word foreknowledge. What Paul is saying is not God foreknew who would believe, but God foreknew believers. This casts additional light on the meaning of the word foreknew because now we see that the kind of knowledge in mind is relational knowledge, not intellectual knowledge.

Intellectually, God knows everything before time. That's omniscience. But relationally, God only knows believers in advance. Does that make sense? This is Bible Knowledge Commentary. Believers are those God foreknew. This does not mean simply that God foreknows what believers will do, but that God foreknows them. So putting the first two contextual observations together, we learn that foreknowledge is limited to believers and it is a relational knowledge.

Peter also uses this in 1 Peter 1.20. Peter uses it of God's knowledge of the Son.

So this is God talking about His foreknowledge in regards to His Son. He says, Knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood as of a lamb, unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you who through Him are believers in God. So the Father's personal knowledge of the Son before the foundation of the world indicates that close intimate knowledge that He has with the Son and foreknows you in that way as well. That's what this verse is saying so far. Okay? So we got number one. We'll move to the rest of them. Thanks for bringing up the pre-acquaintance. If I had a Bible that I still wrote in, I'd have to have my notes in. I'd write that off to the side for sure. It's really cool. Let's pray.

Father, how we thank you for these verses that you designed these to be a comfort to the believer. We understand that you're working out all things together for good for us because we love you. You first loved us, of course, but Lord, we're thankful that you knew us in a personal way before the foundations of the world. Lord, you are acquainted with us. And in a very special way, we thank you for that relational knowledge that you're explaining and how this just brings further intimacy to our understanding of who we are in Christ and what you're up to and your plan. So we thank you for that. We just pray for a great rest of the week. And as Mike delivers the Mass absorb, we pray that you would just illuminate our hearts and minds to behold you through your word. It's in your name we pray. Amen.