Lesson 62b

All right, lesson 62. We're in Romans chapter 15, 24 through 33. Someone want to read that again? Just get us a refresher. It's been a few weeks. I plan to do so when I go to Spain. I hope to visit you while passing through and to have you assist me on my journey there after I've enjoyed your company for a while.

Now, however, I'm on my way to Jerusalem in the service of the saints there. For Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem. They were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared the Jews' spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings. So after I've completed this task and have made sure that they have received this fruit, I will go to Spain and visit you on the way. I know that when I come to you, I will come in the full measure of the blessing of Christ.

I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the spirit to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me. Pray that I may be rescued from the unbelievers in Judea and that my service in Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints there so that by God's will, I may come to you with joy and together with you be refreshed. The God of peace be with you all. Amen. Thank you. All right.

So question number four. is do their spiritual things mean that the Gentile calling was Jewish and earthly? So we're looking at, quote, unquote, their spiritual things. So we've got a special ministry, towards the gentiles to help the jews in any possible way is that what we're seeing here? i think we used the term last week we used the term debtors do we think that that's accurate here? i think the gentiles are just raised some money to help the jews in palestine that were in trouble financially So helping the Jews in Palestine financially?

Yeah, because if you were a Jew and you became a Christian, nobody in Israel would have anything to do with you, especially from a commerce standpoint. You couldn't buy or sell anything. You probably couldn't go to the grocery store. You couldn't go there, and nobody would deal with you.

So they need financial help. because the Gentiles were bringing money to Jews, meaning that they accepted this Israeli faith. What's the word I'm looking for? Judaism. And they were really operating on a level of brothers in Christ. Yeah, it's clear that the Jewish Christians were dealing with rejection, right? And they were not able to, as you mentioned, buy and sell. And I mean, you get locked out of tradition, right? You get locked out of culture, you get locked out of family.

There's a lot of analogies that can be made there, but in this particular context, it had to do with those Jewish Christians and Paul's special ministry here was literally to communicate the fact that the debtorship, if that's a term, but being a debtor to them didn't mean that that was their focus alone. It meant that they needed help, right? So it was a special way that they could minister if they were able to do so, right? So how does that relate to us? Do you think of an example? Yeah, it's interesting about examples for that.

We are careful that missionaries that we support are to some degree aligned with us doctrinally. But that doesn't mean that if there's a need that shows up right in front of us, that God would call us to satisfy that we would just do it. Paul seems to think that, or seems to say, or does say, that the Gentiles owe the Jews because the Jews were the ones used by God to bring salvation to them through the Messiah. Well, that's great.

And I think you need to make a distinction whenever you're giving help to somebody, like the people that walk in the back door of the church that are actually gypsies looking for a handout, and they're driving a new car. And I don't think we should help side of that coin. I think each case is individual. It depends on who they are and what they need.

You know, Constable says in about verse 27, the money that Paul was collecting was both a love gift and an obligation. In parentheses, he puts, they are indebted to them. He could say that the givers owed it because the gospel, which they benefited from, had come from Jerusalem and Judea to the Gentiles.

So that doesn't mean the Gentile calling was Jewish and earthly, and it isn't. It does mean that the Jewish calling is Jewish and earthly. They're bound to the earth here. Their blessings come from the earth. Ours don't. But we are obligated to the Jewish, to the Jews, because that's where the gospel came from.

Right. I think that's a really good summarization to answer that question number four. Let's look at the number five. Somebody else? Yeah, Jamie, I don't know if you can hear me. Yeah, barely. I'll try to interpret for the rest of the class. Yeah, I think the question I have is the structure of the sentence. And I'm trying to look it up in the brief as well.

Or if the Gentiles have shared in their spiritual things. It seems to say the Gentiles are sharing in their spiritual things. What is that? I mean, we're going back to their spiritual things, but that seems like the structure is it's from the Gentiles. For if the Gentiles, subject, have shared in their spiritual things, what are their spiritual things? Isn't it the Jews' spiritual things? I don't think he's talking about Israel, per se. He's talking about the Jews who have become Christians. I mean, for if the Gentiles, who are the Gentiles? Anybody who's not a Jew?

Correct. But then it says, have shared in their spiritual things. Yeah. Share in their spiritual things. What does that mean? What are their spiritual? I mean, the question is, what is their spiritual things? See, it's associated with the Gentiles, not with the Jews. And then because they shared in their spiritual things, they're going to, you know, material things to the Jews, but it's odd that it says, for if the Gentiles, subject, have shared in their spiritual things. The spiritual things are associated with the Gentiles, not with the Jews.

Yeah, I think in 1 Corinthians 9-11 it talks about, if we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? So what are those spiritual things? Is the question you're asking, Courtney, am I understanding correctly? Correct.

I mean, from the Gentiles, and it says they're sharing their spiritual things. And I was just, yeah, this seems, is it, yeah, the Corinthians where, I mean, they're sharing back their enthusiasm, their zeal for the Lord and all that, I think is what it's kind of getting at.

They're sharing their new relationship with God, and that because of that, they're sharing that with them, their zeal, their enthusiasm, their new relationship, that they will then provide material things to the Jews in Jerusalem. But it just sounded like, I mean, just from the structure of the sentence, it sounded like it was the Gentiles' spiritual things, not, it sounded like from the discussion, it was more on the Jewish side, but I think it, from the structure of the sentence, it seems like Gentiles and their spiritual things. You know, the Holman Christian Standard Bible translates it as, have shared in their spiritual benefits. Could that be their relationship with God? That's kind of what I think it is.

It's they're sharing their benefits that they have received now from the Jews, who were the keeper of the word, the law, all those things, and Christ coming out of the Jewish line. I think now they're benefiting from that. And that's their spiritual things or benefit. And now they're, because of that, they're rewarding or providing material things to the Jews in Jerusalem.

Yeah. Jewish Christians and yeah. Yeah. The Christians in Jerusalem. Sorry. Yeah. Anyway, just my thoughts. Good. Let me ask you one thing. What's the most important spiritual thing? Relationship with Jesus Christ. Yeah, I think we can agree on that fact, right?

That's definitely the point here is that Paul is trying to get the gospel to the Gentiles. He realizes that he's reached a point where he needs to continue to move forward. He wants to communicate spiritual things to those Gentiles that have not heard. He's also talking about in this verse about the debtorship, around material support in the event that those Jewish Christians are able to support. And so we have this missionary concept where, like Mike said, if you can do it, you know, do it, you know, if it may, if the Lord's leading you to be able to support, support and help.

Right. Do we agree that that's kind of the gist of where we're, what we're talking about here? Yeah. Let's look at question five. In verse 29, what does the fullness of the blessings of Christ mean? It kind of ties into what we just talked about. I know that when I come to you, I will come in the fullness of the blessing of Christ. What's going on there?

Does that separate him from the other apostles? In a positive sense it does, because his understanding of the total gospel was greater than the other 12. So you... Mike, you said in a positive sense? In a positive sense it does, because nobody had the complete message that Paul had. And he's talking to the Roman Christians now, but he's I think what they've been taught. He wasn't the founder of the Roman church.

I think what his thought is, is that when he goes there, he'll spend time with them and expose to them the total grace that's in the gospel that he knows. Yeah, it's an inspired knowledge, isn't it? I mean, he had a different inspiration in terms of his knowledge from the person of Lord Jesus, direct access, right? And so when we talk about his message and the gospel that he was sharing, it had a fullness and an understanding, and it goes into those identification truths as well. It doesn't stop with just the gospel. And so when we talk about the fullness of the blessings of Christ, that's something that Paul was given as an inspiration of knowledge to be able to share.

And I think that's really the heart of what's going on here is that Paul, he desires to share this so bad that he wants to travel. And in some cases, he can't get where he wants to. In other cases, he goes where he shouldn't go. And we'll talk about that. It's that desire to share that fullness of the blessings of Christ, or blessing of Christ, rather, singular, blessing. I'm sorry, Brian's getting me yelling in the back of his ear here, so I have to yell. Brian's going to go deaf by the end of the class.

The other thing is, you know, I'm thinking about this when I read this, coming into full fullness of the blessing of Christ, I'm reading through Acts right now, and there, you know, I read in where he's prohibited, the Spirit prohibited him from going somewhere, or he directs him to this place or that. I'm thinking also that this is partially where Christ is, you know, allowing him to go there, that he's, you know, he's permitted, or the Spirit has led him to go there, and that he'll come, when he comes, it will be in the full blessing, or the direction of the Holy Spirit in Christ. I think there's part of that in it, too, because he's been prohibited to come places. And I think when he says, when I come there, it's going to be in the full blessing of the Lord. He wants me there. Yeah, I think you're right as well. I think that it not only has to do with the inspired knowledge, but also the inspired direction, right? Yeah. Yeah. Cool, verse number six, or I'm sorry, question number six, verse 30.

What does Paul mean to strive together? Strive together with him in their prayers for him. Do we strive together as a body? How do they strive together with Paul in terms of prayer? Let me ask you this, does prayer change things? Changes people. I think it changes things. It can. I was going to say, when I pray about something, it usually changes me. I don't change his mind, but he changes mine. I think that's a lot of it. Yeah, it changes us.

It's interesting that Paul, in verse 30, so now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me. So did Paul, do you think Paul, based on this verse, does Paul believe that prayer has the ability to allow him access and direction? What? Yes. Yeah. Definitely. He says to pray without ceasing. Does God change? No. No. No. Immutable. Okay. Yeah, God doesn't change.

We oftentimes use this example of a pen. And this is one of Burns old illustrations that time is a tool of God. Right. And we live in, you know, in a beginning and an end in terms of our earthly history. And during that time. God allows prayer to affect how that time is spent and how that time is utilized in terms of believers. And so the answer, I think, in terms of striving together is that we pray for one another, just like we did at the beginning, and we'll do it at the end of every single class we ever have. We believe that God is working in time to make those opportunities available, right? Or healing or blessing or however we might go about the particular prayer. And you're right, it's without ceasing. So in the event that prayer, it ties into the opportunity that we have before Christ, right? And that's what Paul's talking about here in verse 30.

Well, and he also talked about back in 826 that we don't know how to pray like we should, and that the Spirit himself makes intercession for us with the growing to can't be understood. Interesting that, along with that, the thorn in the flesh from Paul the apostle, that he went to God three times and his mind got changed. It wasn't God's change, and he told him God informed him why it was important that it be done that way, because he said, my strength is made perfect in your weakness. And so a lot of times, that lesson to be learned, it seems like God has changed his mind, but he hasn't, because he has the same agenda all the time. That's really good. So what are the obstacles Paul desires prayer about? What is the nature of those obstacles? Question number seven.

You'd have to think of Back in his day, especially, there was a true like hatred of what he was teaching, and kind of a protection for his literal life that he would even kill before he could get the words out, I know God would protect and he'd never die before he was supposed to. But we're in a spiritual battle because the gospel is not popular. And, and Paul needed, like literal physical protection. He needed Holy Spirit to enlighten people to to grasp the words that Paul would tell them.

I mean, that's maybe a little bit of it. I think you're exactly right. It's a really good answer. What else do you think he was asking for prayer about? What were those obstacles? So we got the hatred side of things. He was basically praying to be rescued from the unbelievers, whether they be Jews, or Romans, or Greeks, or whatever. He just wanted protection from unbelievers. Yeah. I also think it was anticipated an obstacle that the Jewish Christians may not be willing to accept the gift he was bringing out of just prejudice or pride or whatever their motives would be because it was coming from the Gentiles.

So we've got We've got that kind of entrenched hatred towards the message itself and Paul being the bearer of that message. We've got government that could reject the possibility of that message being communicated. And then we've got kind of that prejudice and pride of those that rejected individually, right?

So, He feared for his life. He feared for the message. He feared, and I say feared, I'll adjust that, but he feared for just the government being able to accomplish what the Lord had inspired him to do. And so when I say fear, it was not a fear, it was a strive together with those in prayer. That's how he approached it. It was not, here are my fears. It was strive together with me in prayer so that I might be able to accomplish these things in the fullness of the blessing of Christ.

Does that make sense? Sure. And JD, I think the other thing is right before that, his basis or reason, now I urge you brethren, and it's how? By our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit. That's the basis for him to strive with them. He's driven by the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of the this Friday. Yeah, I like that, Courtney. That really helps. It brings it back to the person, right? He was all about a person.

It wasn't just a message that he was delivering. He's not a, you know, what are they, the Birds that deliver messages on their feet. Pigeons. Pigeons, yeah. That's not where he's at. He is operating out of the power of a person, inspired by the Spirit, empowered by the Spirit rather, and it all ties back to the Lord Jesus. It's not a message in and of itself, it's a person.

Does that accurately represent what you're saying, Courtney? Yeah, and it's interesting, you know, the Greek verbs on these are, it was, on the scribing it's aorist, but it's middle voice and infinitive. So, the aorist I don't think is the past tense, I think it's a fact. And it's the middle voice, so we're participating in it, or he's participating in it, and then it's infinitive, he's just stating the purpose. to, by the blessings of the Lord, you know, do this. He's doing it, the purpose is by the Lord, by the Spirit, we're striving together. Yeah. Yeah. So yes, I agree with what you said. It's really cool. Thanks for adding that.

So question number eight, how long was it from the time of this prayer and Paul's arrival in Rome? At least two years. least two, maybe even three. I think one of the one of the interesting things about that is that there's a waiting period for opportunity, right? So that's my takeaway with this particular question is that there's a bearing that we may bear that striving together in prayer with something that could take many years. And we all know that much like Alan said earlier, God may not change the circumstance that you're praying about as much as He may change you. And sometimes that might take two to three years as well. But that was a very interesting takeaway from what I saw here is that there is a bearing in striving together in prayer with one another.

So it could take time. Question number nine, did Paul enter Jerusalem against the will of God? Definitely not. People pleaded with him not to go to Jerusalem. uh... who was a prophet uh... said the man who uh... whom i am whose men who belongs to this belt i'm bound binding myself is going to be bound in jerusalem you know and paul said i'm going anyway you know this is where god wants me to go any other thoughts? look at acts twenty one four do what?

Look at Acts 21.4.

Someone read Acts 21.4 for us real quick. I'll read it if everybody can hear me. After looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem.

What happened when he got there? Things went well for a while, but then the Jews started beating on him and the Romans took him away from them. They put him in chains. So the question is, did he go against the will of God? I still don't think so. From man's viewpoint, it looks like yes, that was not the best thing to do. God sure worked it out. He sent him straight to Rome. After a delay, he went to Rome, but under chains and in prison. He did get to go to Rome because of that. I think. It is interesting, though, that it says, by the Spirit, they warned him. Yeah.

So who's right or wrong in this thing? If it's truly a spirit telling him, don't go down there by these people. And then Agabus, I think is the one who comes down and tells him about the belt and all that. So I'm kind of curious, who's right or wrong in this thing or who's doing the leading?

You know, Paul did say that, He did say that the Spirit has told him before he gets to a place that there will be persecution. He will be beaten and stoned and stuff like that. And he told, I'm sure the Spirit told him that, yeah, he's gonna be beaten and bound in Jerusalem, but I think he still wanted him to go there. Can the answer be that both were right?

I mean, just because It's just off the top of my head. I mean, just because this people were telling him he shouldn't go and they were inspired by the spirit to tell him that, but maybe, maybe that too was part of, you know, God working on them and then, you know, but he still wanted Paul to go and that maybe it was, it was, you know, not the overall picture kind of thing. Maybe it was that, you know, that somehow it's, it was separate that, that, I'm rambling, but the Spirit was working on those people somehow, and not really the overall picture, but God was working on Paul.

Does that make any sense? Yeah, I think it does. Could you say that the Spirit was working on Paul to test him, whether he would go to Jerusalem or not? Yeah. To me, it's like it's not contradictory. It could just be two separate things that appear to be contradictory, but they're not. Does that make any sense, JD? Yeah, I think so.

Paul's desire was to proclaim the fullness of the blessing of Christ, right? And he was enabled to do that. And obviously, that had to do with direction as well as his message. And so his intentions were to communicate the person and the work of Christ. But if he ended up being in a place where, you know, the Lord didn't want him, which in this case it was, then the results were what the Lord desired.

I don't think that Acts 21.4 it should be ignored in the sense that it was through the Spirit that he was warned, but it doesn't mean that... I don't know that it means that he fully went against the will of God. Yeah, I want to clarify. I agree with Carolyn. I think that it's two things.

He's working with the people and he's working on Paul. The Spirit was leading those people to tell him what was going to happen. And Paul, you know, they told him what was going to, they, through the spirit, told him what was going to happen. And then Paul, knowing what's going to happen, went ahead anyway. The warning was there. It wasn't a stop. It was just a warning from the people to Paul that this is what's going to happen.

And I think at the end, I think at the end of that, it says the will of the Lord be done. is what the final outcome of all those, you know, with Agabus and all the people. And Paul says, I'm going anyway. They say, let the Lord, the will of the Lord be done.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's not contrary. I guess it's that there were two different things. The spirit was leading the people to warn him. And that was they knew what was going to happen. And they kept showing him he's going to be bound. He's going to be all this. That didn't say stop. It just was a warning.

And I think it showed to the people how convicted Paul was of bringing the message and meeting with the Christians in Jerusalem. So I think it did work on both of them. So yes, Carolyn, I agree. It's not contradictory in any way, shape, or form. I think it's a whole picture, both working on the people who were warning him, as well as Paul saying, OK, I know what's going to happen. I'm going anyway. Yep. Awesome. That was a good discussion. I know that we're at time now, so I'm going to go ahead. H.A.D.? Yeah.

I was going to say, I wonder if the scripture that says, and we know that God causes all things to work together for the good of those who love the Lord, that even though Paul went there, the Lord still caused the right and good things to happen. I absolutely agree, Russ. That's a great way to summarize that concept of what we just talked about. I think that's extremely accurate.

Well, I want to be conscious of what the second hour here. And I think that the last question I'm going to, I'm just going to pray through because that's what it has to do with. So the question is, does God sometimes make his work in this world depend on the prayers of his saints? So I'll kind of pray and bring up maybe the answer to that question so that we can move on to the next class next week.

You can start, you can do that one next week. That's a good question, I think. So don't worry. Because most of next week is greetings and people and all that. So go ahead and take that question out first if you want next week. OK. OK. Yeah. And the question for everybody for next week is I want you to all be able to pronounce the names of these people. I don't know if you've gotten the lesson yet, but I don't want any criticism for the way these names are going to be pronounced. So I want you to all practice the names in 16. Yes, sir.

Let's pray, guys. Father, how we thank you that we have the privilege to strive together to pray for our country, to pray for our countries, countries around the world, just for peace and tranquility and the ability to have the gospel be clearly and freely shared so that they might be able to know who you are and what you've done personally for them through salvation. And Lord, we just pray for the rest of this day and the next hour, just that your message will continue to be communicated clearly. And we thank you most of all for your person, your love and your grace. And it's your name we pray. Amen.