The person and work of the Holy Spirit, lesson 8 cont.

So we are in lesson eight of the person and work of the Holy Spirit. I got the title right this time. So we finished with question two, but I just wanted to circle back for one second after listening to the message last week. The question was, does new birth precede faith or does it follow it? Did everybody get that? Or what was the end result of that? Does new birth precede faith?

Simultaneously. Yeah. And I guess the thing is, you know, because some people have to be reborn before and all this, and it really, I think the instant by faith you believe, The new birth happens instantaneously. All the death, burial, the co-crucifixion, everything happens instantaneously. One of the ones I looked up afterwards, I had all those verses that said about how God desires.

To me, it's not an election. He doesn't pre-choose everybody. It's after you, then you've been selected. You'd be because your history is all in in Christ So, you know all those ones if it was a desire, you know There's another one that I looked at this week after was looking at John 6 44 No one can come to the come to me unless the father who sent me Does it say select them? draws them, and that's, I think, what the Holy Spirit draws them and brings them. The Father allows the Holy Spirit to work on every single human being, I believe, drawing them, and it's up to you, the individual. The only reason why we have a will is decide, do we believe Christ and what he did?

And then it's instantaneous. The new birth happens right at that point. But I just wanted to circle back at that, that we finally ended up with an answer. Jim, are you okay? So everybody good with that? Okay. Question three, what then is new birth? What is the character of this regeneration? So, you know, I said, best way to look at it, I think we're about the new birth is when we see Jesus talking to Nicodemus, and this is in John three, and it's four through 15. I'll read it. Nicodemus said to him, how can a man be born when he is old?

He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he? Jesus answered, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the spirit is spirit. You'll not be amazed that I said to you, you must be born again. The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from. and where it's going. So is everyone who is born of the spirit.

Nicodemus said to him, how can these things be? Jesus answered and said to him, are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen and you do not accept our testimony. If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one is ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the son of man. As Moses lifted up the serpent into the wilderness, even so must the son of man be lifted up, so that whoever believes in him will have eternal life."

So I said, from these verses, what then is the new birth? Is it different than the first birth? Our first birth, is it different? Come on now. That's the easiest question I have. We perceive life, physical life, as birth. New birth is birth. Yeah. Fleshly versus spiritual. That's what Nicodemus is thinking. Fleshly. How do I get back in my mother's womb and be reborn? He's thinking the fleshly physical. And so it's of the spirit, not of the flesh. So it's completely different.

So you can also look at, we've referenced many times, 2 Corinthians 5.17. New and kind. We're totally new. It's not a refurbished birth where we polish up the old man. It's completely new. And it's spiritual, not fleshly.

So what must precede the new birth? Spirit drawing. Yeah. But what happens in order to have new birth? What do you have to have first? Faith. Faith. Still not going to where I want. Yeah. Change of mind. So we have something has to proceed. New birth. Yes, all those are true. But what happens the instant you believe?

Death. Death. You have to have death first. Because if you don't have that death, you're just refurbishing the old guy. So it is now, death, separation from the old man has to transpire in order to have a new birth. So that's, it's basically, you know, that's why we went through all the Romans identification truths. Wrecking yourself dead and then alive unto God. It's gotta be death first that separates us from the old man in order for us to have a new birth.

So everybody okay with that? No, but did that did it negate what happened? Yeah You know and that's where you bring up a point I mean, I I don't and I and I actually bought it the the 33 things that happened to you instant You know with Chait Lewis Barry Chafer's 33 things.

I didn't know all that happened to me when I believed I had no clue and I had no clue really for 20 years about all the identification truths. So, as I said, I think my growth was stunted for years because of not understanding what transpired at my faith in Christ. That I was co-crucified positionally, in God's eyes, I was co-crucified, separated, and now I have a new birth, spiritual birth, a new life in me. And that's, you know, I didn't understand that when I believed. There are a lot of things, even now, you know, I look through and I have so many things that, you know, that in scripture, do I really believe it? You know, and I struggle sometimes. I think, why don't I believe this stuff?

It's right here. He's telling me. But, you know, it's the maturing of a believer, the growing in the grace and knowledge, and that's how I, you know, growing is knowing more about what actually transpired when I accepted. So, again, it's the separation has to happen first. That has to happen. So again, all this stuff, use of faith, and drawing, and all that, and belief, that, yeah. But before I have new birth, it has to be death, the separation. Courtney? Yeah. I think that that issue of explaining death as a term of separation is really critical for this. Because in contemporary society, we look at death as cessation of existence or whatever.

But really, when a human being dies, what happens? They just leave here and go somewhere else. So when a person is born again, what happens is that they leave everything that's of the old world, sin nature and all of that, they're separated from it and born into an entirely new creation.

And that's a positional thing. And like you say, it's a spiritual thing. But I think the word death sometimes is more anonymous than it needs to be because it just really means I got separated from this and now I'm alive in this. Right and you know again death for an unbeliever it doesn't mean They're gone. They're physically gone. And actually, Rite Out, I'm going to read from Rite Out, too. He brings that out. I think a lot of people, and some of the atheists and that, believe that it's just, when I die, I die. That's it. Close the book. Nothing else. And that's not the truth. That is not what happens. And we are eternal beings. It's just where are you? Are you going to be in Christ, the bride of Christ? Or are you an unbeliever who is going to be separated from God and eternally separated from him?

Now that's the term born dead. Born dead. I mean, so a lot of people, you know, the atheists will say, well, you're, you know, I'm not, I die, die, done. I can do whatever I want and there's no afterlife. There's no, I'm done. What's that? Annihilation. You know, done. I can do whatever I want. There's no penalty for my life here. I just, when I'm dead, I'm dead. I'm gone. No responsibility. Yeah. But that's not true. And they don't realize we're eternal. And it's just location, location, location. You know, the real estate.

Where are you when you leave this earth? Are you a new creature in Christ, or are you still attached to the old man and all of what he brings, which is death and separation? You know, I don't hear the term eternal life related to spiritual birth much, but it's true. When we're born again, we're born to eternal life. You know, the old man is completely dead. We're separated. He's obliterated.

And we are born to eternal life. Before we didn't have that, but now we do. Well, we have eternal life. Eternal life is always there. It's just we're. Because non-believers... Eternal existence. Yeah. So that's what I think non-believers don't understand. And that's the horrible thing. is that they don't understand that. Our spiritual existence will be in one of two places. One of two places, but it's eternal. And that's the, you know, from a non-believer, you know, they blow that off.

It's like, meh, you know, I've done well enough, you know, I'll stand before God and plead my case, you know. I believe that. Yeah, so, I mean, there's a lot. But it's the full separation, and that's the, you know, and I think you were saying something that just sparked me that Positionally, right now, we are separated. Even though we're stuck in these shells that still sin and do all this, from God's perspective, all he sees is Christ. That's all he sees. And even though we sin, we fail, we do all this, God sees us only in his son right now, positionally. That's a great comfort. No matter what I do, He sees me in His Son. No matter how stupid I am, He sees me in His Son. That's a great comfort to me.

That's hard to intellectually comprehend that, because we're living here in this sin, and all we see is our sin. To be positionally perfect before God, it's just, I can't see that in my physical self with my eyes. You just have to believe it. Well, I think some of the things, and they were reflected in some of the Hungry Hearts, I think, in the last week or so, is looking up to God. Now, we should be looking down, because positionally, we're there.

And so I think that if we have that mindset, that we are positionally seated in Christ, in God, Colossians 3.3, right now, that we should be looking down from our position. That's harder for me to understand. That positionally I'm in Christ. Where's Christ? Seated at the right hand of God. Our life is hid in Christ with God. Yeah, that's Colossians 3. God is not looking at our flesh. He's looking at our life hid in Christ.

Right and that you know and we tend to look at our fleshly bodies or look at and we're always pleading upwards You know and and yeah, we're hit with hit in Christ in God awesomely Oh, yeah Any of you who don't have the hungry heart I would highly suggest getting it because it just daily there are some things Miles you have that at all It's like, it's a website that has the daily reads. Yeah, you do that, yeah. Yeah, the hard copy, you know, Mike has the hard copies, but yeah, there's just some amazing growth things in there that just, yeah, hit so many times right in what we're at.

I was going to say actually, we're actually talking about in our group right now, 1st Peter, and we're talking about enduring trials and so forth. And I was thinking about it, like sometimes you wonder why do we still have to be in this flesh if we're positionally, you know, positionally we're in Christ in the heavenlies. Why are we still here going through all the suffering and that? And the thing we're kind of talking about today is that one of the big things is that as unbelievers see the way that we handle trials and suffering, they can be drawn to Him. And that's a pretty fantastic purpose. you know, go through some suffering because we're still stuck in this fallen body, right?

That's my pointing at. You point and three are back at you. He may be working on you, or that person, but he's also working on you. So that person sees you, and wow, but he's also working on you for dependency upon him. So it's, God is way smarter than us. So, you know, that's a fact. And so he's using, what we think is one way, he's going 16 different ways.

And I think some of the things, actually, in the Hungry Heart in the last few days was about how he is in control of all things. and you know you realize that when you go through your day at normal day he's not looking somewhere else he's working on you every minute of every day and he's using all the things that are going on to you even some tough times uh... plenty of failure yet yet one of the definitions i i looked it up in the uh... in the uh... dictionary of a bad day phil had it is his pictures in there for a definition of a bad day uh...

So, I mean, you know, but that's the Lord allowed that. And that's, you know, you have in amongst the trial when it's sometimes in the midst of the fire, it's a little tough. But there's peace that you can understand through any kind of trial, if you understand he's sovereignly in control, no matter what's going on. and let him work. And that's tough. Sometimes let the reins off, let him accomplish what he wants. That's tough, especially in the midst of the trial.

And a lot of times we think we have to be the ones that fix it or do or whatever, but ultimately it's him. And we have to rest in that fact. So again, it just, what we're saying, how as a non-believer you go through some of these things, I don't know how you do it. I don't know how I'd get through some things if I didn't have the Lord. So, Millie, you know.

All right, from Rideout, he actually does say this, and this is about the, more of the immortality. Looking at the close of 3rd of John, we read, he that believes on the sun has everlasting life. And this statement is repeated again and again throughout the gospel, this gospel.

So much so, indeed, that we may safely say eternal life is the theme of John. Remembering that faith is an integral element in new birth, we have the simple and self-evident fact that new birth is the impartation of spiritual life of divine impartation of spiritual life, of divine eternal life to the soul.

I need not add that eternal life does not merely mean immortal existence. Life in John is not mere existence. All men are immortal by their very constitution. To say that a man is dead in sin does not mean that he has ceased to exist far from it, but that he has no relationship with God. Therefore, the character of regeneration is spiritual. So again, everybody has eternal life.

It's just where are you going to be before you leave this earth? Where are you? That's the key. So what's the term that he used for unending life? Is that what he used? He just said immortal. Immortal. That's a good term because it distinguishes that from eternal life. Eternal life and immortal life are not the same thing. Right. Yeah. So yeah, again, but it's, you know, again, I think that's very important for, you know, us to understand for non-believers too, that they have, they're immortal. They will live on. Yeah. They will live on. Yeah. And, and unfortunately to say, you know, they're, they're going to be before, before God and, They have no excuse. You know, again, what we talked about, too, I think, last week was the ability of the Holy Spirit. I think the Holy Spirit's work on every human being.

And he's being drawn, but the fleshly body is refusing it. And the one thing he gave us a will for is to decide, you know, who is Christ? Did Christ die for your sins? And the free gift of salvation, true faith, That's the only reason for a will. We have will to make all sorts of decisions, but that's the key for why we have a will. And again, from talking about my area last week, free will for an unbeliever is not free will. They just sin. That's all they can do. But the wooing of the Holy Spirit, as I read in the John passage, he draws them.

And ultimately, it comes to a point where you make that decision, yes or no, about Christ. So, and that, again, when, you know, I think of all the stuff down at Camp Elam that, you know, that's why I'm so emotional about it, is that those are eternal decisions down there. Eternal.

You know, it's not just a week at camp. If they know about Christ and accept Christ, that's an eternal decision. And that just kills, you know, just when there's 30 kids whose eternal destination is changed. That's incredible. Sorry, I get down there and every time I lose it because I realize all these kids, you know, and it's not just a week. It's an eternal decision. That's incredible to me. So anyway.

Question four, is the new birth the impartation of a sinless nature? Does the new birth supplant the old nature? Does it supplant it? Move it out. Do we only have one nature at our rebirth? I don't know if Phil was on the mic at that point, but we still have the old crap, if I can quote Phil. So, when we have accepted the Lord, does it supplant it? Does it remove it?

No. No. Yeah. Before, we did not have a sinless nature. Now we do. And it's in competition with the sinful nature. Yeah. Yep. And there's some one nature people that once you have a new nature, that's it. The old man's gone. You have a new nature. So, we'll get into some questions about that. How's that working out for you? How did Paul do in Romans 7? Is there anything good in your flesh? Absolutely not. So, we have two natures now, a fleshly sinful one and a new spiritual one. both residing in us right now.

The beautiful part is when we do separate from this body, that's gone. And all we have is the new life. That's an exciting part. That's why I think we've talked about it. When a believer goes home, dies, That's the second best day of his life or her life. First is when they accepted the Lord. And second is they're now at home with face to face with the Lord, shirking these, these sinful bodies. Don't have to worry about that anymore. That's awesome. Plus all the rest face to face with the Lord.

But we're separated at that point from the sinful body, which is, I think more of when, you know, I hear people say that, you know, Satan is doing this. Satan is attacking me now. I think it's your fleshly body 99% of the time. We've said if Satan's picking you today. You're special, because he's not omnipresent and God has allowed Satan to sift you.

It's more, I think, we battle flesh with the flesh. You'll see that also in the scripture, that it's flesh versus the spirit, spirit versus the flesh. So that's the battle going on. And so it's not our new life, it's the spirit going against the flesh. So isn't he saying that in the new, redeemed nature, people will not sin? But we still have the old nature. Yes, that's that's I'm getting to there. You're all ahead. But I wanted to see the 1st thing is understanding that you have 2 natures. That's a key to some people. Some people believe when you are a believer. That's it, one nature.

Well, why do you sin? Why do you, I mean, what did Paul go through and say that there's nothing good in my flesh? Why do you still sin? Some people say it's memories and yada, yada, yada, but it's like you can't justify, there's too much evidence that we still have a fleshly, sinful nature.

But we also do, because of the indwelling and the co-crucifixion and all that, we have a new life imparted into us. So that's... It makes sense to me that your new redeemed nature doesn't sin. Because you're in Christ, and the Word tells us that God is of pure eyes, and behold, he cannot look on iniquity. So he's in Christ. He's not going to be looking at sin. Exactly. Does that make sense? Oh, absolutely. And I'm getting there. So as we said before, and that's a key, and I think believers get dragged down because they don't realize that. We'll get to that.

So as we touch on the last question, what happens before new birth? Death must be before new life or new birth into Christ. We must be positionally separated from the old man before the new birth into Christ. So we look at John 3, 6, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit. So at the new birth, does the flesh become sinless? No. No. That's again, if you believe there's one nature, you have to believe that. that at the new birth, my flesh is now sinless.

Well, as Mike said, when the music starts and you start dancing, why is that the case? So we can look clearly at Romans 7, where Paul says, nothing good dwells in my flesh. Nothing. So there are two natures. That clearly says that there's two natures. So one is fleshly, and there's nothing good in it.

So is the new spiritual nature at rebirth sinless? Yes. Yes. Can the new life, the dwelling Holy Spirit, sin? No. No. So again, the two separate natures. I've got flesh that wants to sin all the time, but as a believer, I have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit in me, giving me new life, and that one can't sin. So when we're sinning, walking in the spirit or walking in the flesh? In the flesh. In the flesh.

And again, that's one of those other ones that tells us that there's two natures. Because if we walk in the flesh and walk in the spirit, do different things there. So again, the walking in the spirit is on my new life, my new spiritual, which can't sin. and is growing in maturity and the grace and knowledge, 2 Peter 3, 18, that growing in the grace and knowledge of Christ. That's the one, that's the one that's growing. My flesh is doing nothing but trying to drag that half down. So, Rydad says this, let us turn to another scripture, and this is, I think, what Duran said, let us turn to another scripture that completes the thought, 1 John 3, 9.

No one who is born of God practices sin because his seed abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God. How beautifully clear is this? God is the author of new birth. Is he the author of sin? Question Rydad brings out. When we ascribe more character to a life or a person, we speak of it as a nature. Here we are told that as born of God, we have a nature sinless and incapable of sin. The soul is born of God. The divine seed is permanent and is incapable of being corrupted. New birth then is the impartation of a sinless nature. So again, two natures are within us, fleshly and new spiritual.

And they battle all the time. And we see that in Galatians 5, 17. And again, this is kind of an interesting one. We brought this out in several of our classes about, for the flesh sets its desire against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh. For they are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. So again, who's battling here? Spirit and the flesh.

Where are we in that? We're in the middle of that, you know? And I think that's where really the battle is going on between the spirit and the flesh, where we get involved is, am I walking in the flesh? Am I walking in the spirit? They're battling, and which side am I leaning on? I think is really what happens. But it's the flesh versus the spirit. We just get involved and go, which side am I relying on? What am I walking in, the flesh or the spirit?

Maybe an interesting distinction is that when we were co-crucified, our old man is put away forever and is no longer there, but our old nature still exists in our flesh. Yeah, that positional truth that we have been separated. I mean, we don't have to listen to the flesh anymore. You know, that we have positionally been separated from our old nature, positionally.

And we have a new life in us. And we, you know, live it by faith. As we live it by faith, we rely or walk in the spirit. It's when we take our eyes off or we don't have the faith to believe what's true about us, that's when we go to the fleshly sides. But the other is, for a non-believer, they don't have any choice. There's nothing. They can only sin. Yeah, Mike?

I would say that this brings up the importance of a believer to spend time in God's word, especially in Paul's epistles and places like that, to find out what's true of him. Because he can say, well, I'm free from sin, but sin is there all the time. but what have I been separated to? I have to have the understanding and the information in which to base my faith on. And so that leads to why spending time in God's word is so important for us as believers because we have to, we have so much experience with sin and so little experience with walking in the spirit. The more time we spend with the Lord and his word, the more we understand, oh, this is an entirely new life and no, it doesn't sin.

I think a couple things, a lot of the hungry hearts have been pointing that out lately, too, about what we have in Christ, and do we really realize that? And then, since Alan has been very generous in the fact that he has now put the tracks on here, the portrait here, so facing the facts is like the train on the tracks. Faith leads, can you read it? Faith leads and the feelings follow.

So again, facts, the knowledge in his word. You need to know. But you can't just osmosis this, just suddenly sit in a room by yourself and contemplate. You have to have the word. And then it's the Holy Spirit, which is this whole class, is the one that is convincing us of those truths. I want to read part of yesterday's Hungry Heart. Let's talk direct to this.

The natural inclination is to make oneself the center of everything passing. How it pains or cheers oneself, even musing on oneself, as if one were the only solitary object for the sunshine or the cloud to rest on. If I am a hero or a martyr to myself, I look at and regard divine things as they suit my thinking about myself. and not as answering to what He is thinking of me, I am confining the Lord to myself instead of rising up, seeing myself lost in Him, and then following Him in all the greatness and blessedness of His work and His ways down here. you know that's kind of what i started out with you know when should we be looking up or looking down right that's exactly right you know that that is where you understand where you're at and you're engrossed in him and if you're engrossed in him your will becomes his will i mean his will becomes your will and because that's your object that's your focus that and we understand we are positionally in him and what all that entails and what that means. As I said, a lot of the ones lately in The Hungry Heart have just been really spot on.

I see that it's 9.51, I think I am beyond, I have exceeded the time limit. So we have a couple questions next week and then, have you got nine, Mike? JD's gonna do it. Okay, all right, so we've got a couple questions we'll hit next week to finish out this lesson and then JD will take over on lesson nine. All right, let's close. Shhh!

And Father, we thank you again for this time. Again, we thank you and realize that you're in control of all things, not just a few things. You're in control of all things, from all of the stars and everything in the heavens to the atoms and the cells of each and every one of us. You're in control of that. We are just restful in the fact that we understand that, that you are in control. And you allow trials in our lives. You allow blessings in our lives. And all come from your hand. And the realization that we cannot be separated from your love, that even in the trials that you are accomplishing your purposes.

And just for several things with the woman in Canada and just her family and just really work in their lives just to uh... especially uh... not having anybody be able to come beside her right now work in her heart in a way that uh... understands that you have an eternal love for her that uh... all the trials and uh... frustrations of this life are meaningless in comparison with the the life and the grace and the abundant blessings that we have in Christ so just really work in her heart as she's isolated right now, especially. So we just pray for that. We just thank you again for this time where we can open up your word and just to have fellowship around your word and what that means for us as believers, that we are one body in Christ. And we thank you for the time that we can get together physically and through Zoom and all that, that we can have that fellowship. So we just thank you and pray for the next meeting that everything we say and do will honor and glorify you. It's in Christ's name we pray, amen.