Second Thessalonians 3:10-12 Undisciplined Life Discussion

Okay, we are at 2 Thessalonians 3, verses 10-12 this morning. And I guess, Roger, this is probably Macaulay's title? Yes, I think it is. I like to use his, if they're available, I'll use his title sometimes. I'll adjust them somewhat, but I think it is. Yeah, he calls it the undisciplined life discussion. That's what we're going to talk about today. And I won't bring up any of your names personally. First, I just stuck this at the beginning here. This is interesting. Speaking of outlines, this is Dr. John Zweigart's outline.

It's a thematic outline of 1st and 2nd Thessalonians from Thessalonians 1.3, just the first part of that verse, constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father. Well, he outlines both books like this. First the opening, and both books have an opening, and you can see the verse references there.

Both, then he goes, 1 Thessalonians goes into a section he calls the work of faith, 2.1 through 3.10. And then 1 Thessalonians goes into the labor of love, 3.11 through 4.12 of 1 Thessalonians. And then the steadfastness of hope, in which he discusses the rapture there in 1 Thessalonians, and that's why it's the steadfastness of the hope of the rapture, you know, the blessed hope. And then the closing, chapter 5, 12 through 28. Second Thessalonians, he opens again in chapter 1, 1 and 2, and then he talks about his work.

And I looked, I kind of looked some of this up and just, it does line up nicely. Then, it's switched around a little, he talks about the steadfastness of hope, where he's talking about the day of the Lord. in 2, chapter 2, 1 through 17. And then the labor of love, and he's talking about, and that's where we're discussing today. We're talking about labor, aren't we?

And he'll mention love in that section 2, 3, 1 through 16 for the brethren. And then he closes out 2 Thessalonians chapter 3, 17 through 18. So, I just thought that That's a really cool outline, and it seems to line up pretty well, but maybe if in the future we can look at it more closely and just make sure it does line up well. So, a thematic outline from 1 Thessalonians, the books there from Dr. John Swigert. I'll read 6 through 9 from last week of 2 Thessalonians.

Just to review, verse 6, Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life, and not according to the tradition which you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you. Nor do we eat anyone's bread without paying for it. But with labor and hardship, we kept on working day and night so that we would not be a burden to you. Not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you so that you would follow our example.

And our new verses for today are 3, chapter 3, 10 through 12. Very similar, so this lesson is very, dovetails into last week really well. He sort of repeats some of the issues from last week. So verse 10 is, for even when we were with you, we used to give you this order.

If anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat either. For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread. So there's our topic for today. I noticed that this is a first, I think I'm right, I hope I'm right, a first class conditional statement. in verse 10, for even when we were with you, we used to give you this order.

If anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat either. So that's a very clear first class conditional sentence to me. If no work, then no eat. Wiest translates it this way. He says, for even when we were with you, this we kept on charging you, that if, as is actually the case, anyone does not desire to work for his livelihood, let him not be eating.

And this next point, I'm just saying that the Wiest, his translation brings out the subtleties of the Greek in what he has with the participles and the voice and the mood and the tenses. you know, you really get the flavor from, from Wyss, that Paul is telling them in person. And back when he was with them, he was giving them this order, work, you know, work for food, mind your own business, work hard. And it was an ongoing command. And he was giving that to them when he was with them, that perangelo, a Greek word, um, So, verse 10 stresses that this not working and kind of giving up work is a chronic issue. And it was, because Paul mentioned it in 1 Thessalonians, just two verses, and now he spends about six verses talking about it, 6 through 12.

They were taking themselves off the labor market and relying on their fellow believers' sense of charity in terms of food. Point B here is it's limited to eating and drinking, but I imagine that back then that was a lot of what you worked for is food and drink. you know, sustenance. So, you know, you didn't have cars and I don't know about the house insurance, all that. So, this was for their really living. This was the main part of it, eating. So, it's limited to that. But I think it'd be different today if we talked about it, you know, because there's so many more expenses in the modern day in the modern day world.

This not willing in verse 10, not willing to work is Othello, and it's not to have a resolve, to not have a resolve or purpose or determination or even desire to work for their daily sustenance. And the Greek, the O-U, there's the no or the negation of fellow, which is willing. So, not willing. Point three here, why were these unruly ones in Thessalonica, from verse six, as we brought it up in verse six, why were they not willing to, that's the question I came up with, tried to answer, why were they not willing or desiring to work, is the question we'll tackle now.

And it, you know, the commentators seem to bring out that these men mistook imminent rapture from First Thessalonians to mean soon, you know, and imminent doesn't always means soon. It means that there's nothing, there's no barriers in the way for the rapture to happen. Nothing has to happen first, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be today or tomorrow or next week.

The false teaching that came into the Cecil and Eichen fellowship that they were living in the day of the Lord, I, and this is a theory of mine, Paul must have given them a little teaching about the tribulation period, and that it was going to be short, because if you made it longer, everyone would be wiped out on earth. And Daniel, the book of Daniel clearly says it's seven years tribulation, so they probably knew that from the book of Daniel.

Anyone trying to say anything out there? No, okay, I'm just getting some static. So, therefore, the unruly, non-working, the unruly, work-shirking, I like that phrase, work-shirking, idle ones, were the first iteration of what we call today, date-setters. You know, modern-day date-setters who say that, oh, the rapture is gonna, happen on December 1st of this year because I've studied the Old Testament and went through all these things and that's when it is. The commentators that I read were saying that they were involved in that error. So today's equivalent would be cashing out your IRA and selling your car and having a garage sale, and then taking the cash and waiting on your roof for the Lord to come.

Andrew, I just have something to share. Actually back in the 2000, remember Y2K? Everybody was concerned. We weren't at Holly Hills at that time, but there were a couple of the church we were in that decided that Y2K was gonna be catastrophic. So they basically bought a place in remote New Mexico someplace, or off the grid, and went out there for Y2K.

And of course nothing happened, but what happened to them their house eventually burned to the ground. They weren't harmed, but it was kind of a traumatic thing for them. So people, some people, you know, people that you think are maybe pretty, you know, with it sometimes can get frightened and do, you know, rational things sometimes.

So yeah, I remember you giving it wasn't too long ago that you gave that example. Yeah, someone I apologize for repeating it. But anyway, it was do that they would go off to middle of New Mexico someplace and then fortunately they had insurance, so they were okay, but there was some question about the insurance at one point, but it was... Oh, they hedged their bets, they kept their insurance, huh? But that's an excellent reiteration of that example, and it fits in perfectly to this discussion. I know you gave it before, because we were talking about the Day of the Lord.

That's right, I have a short memory of my old age here. No, no, and it's, yeah, so it's a perfect example for these verses. And I bet, we'll see if your friends out there, if they have this other issue, which we'll get to in, you know, verse 11, being a busybody, so. Andru, I'm going to have to cut out here in a little bit. We have to get here in time for the practice, so. Oh, okay. Apologize for cutting out early, but you're doing great, so. Okay. I'll keep listening and I'll see you sometime. Okay, great. Andru? Yes? I was thinking that maybe some of them lost motivation because they're like, well, if the rapture is going to happen any minute, why should I bother to work? Yes. Yes.

All here is encouraging them, you know, exhorting them to, you know, not give up, you know, and to just keep going. You know what I mean? Like, what do you call that occupying until he comes? Yeah, tearing. Yeah. Occupy till he comes or tearing till it comes.

That's exactly it. And if I knew that it was definitely going to be next Monday, and for sure, no questions about it, I probably would adjust my week schedule accordingly too. But you'd have to be sure. So these men were sure, it seems. What could be better than be leaving this earth right during a crisis at work? Why would you want to quit? That would be the time to leave. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, they'll take you out right when you're going to bring down the company with some bad decision you made.

A review of verses 6 through 10 in context really quickly is The ones who were unruly or unwilling to work, first Paul instructs the ordered working believers to stand aloof and withdraw from the unruly ones. Then Paul points to his example, Timothy and Silas's personal example of hardworking industry and keeping one's head down with your business. And, you know, like Kathy said, occupying till he comes. And then third, he would turn his attention to the actual unruly or tactless ones. And they're rebuked by Paul personally. And we'll look at that next.

I'm going to put a possible theory, personal theory forward, and I didn't find any of this addressed with any of the commentators, but could it be that the unruly workshirkers, the ones who were riling up the assembly in Thessalonica, were they the ones that were riling up? the Thessalonians about the day of the Lord and it being here. Because they had time on their hands and they said, hey, so it was the ones who were saying it's the day of the Lord, we're in the day of the Lord, were actually these men and not from the outside. I just have that question, I don't know if it can be answered. And not some outside false teachers, as I say in that bullet point there.

If we look at 2 Thessalonians 2 just for review, he says that you not be so quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed that the day has come. So they, again, one of the themes of 2 Thessalonians was to calm down the believers because they were riled up thinking the day of the Lord was there, and it could be that these men were the ones who were riling them up with their extra time.

Verse 11, for we hear that some of you, some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting, this is new, acting as busybodies. So, we'll look at this word busybodies and minding your own business. The idea behind verse 11 is that these atoctos ones, that's the word for unruly, undisciplined, from last week's verse 6, are out of ranks, inordinate and irregular ones.

In their idleness, with their idle time on the hands, they are free to in their leisure to scrutinize other believers' lives, or other brothers' lives. So they have, they're not occupied with any industry, and so they have time to kind of look around, and I think, you know, poke their heads under someone else's tent. you know, as a camel, that saying about the camel poking his head under a tent, you know. Some parallel maxims to that that I just looked up. on the internet, because I got this, that phrase, that maxim in my head.

Idle hands are the devil's tools. That was Geoffrey Chaucer back in the 1300s. Another maxim is, in works of labor or of skill, I would be busy too, for Satan finds some mischief still for idle hands to do. And that's actually a hymn that Isaac Watts wrote, and it's a children's hymn. Here's another one. If the devil finds a man idle, he'll set him to work. That's J. Kelly.

Or the devil tempts all other men, But that idle men tempt the devil. That's an interesting one. So we've all heard that the devil tempts men, but idle men end up tempting the devil, I guess, because the devil will turn his attention to a man who isn't busy about work or being industrious and has idle time on his hands, and he'll use him for his purposes, the devil's purposes, is the idea there.

Other exemptions from hard work, ill health, if you're old, if you're aged, can't work anymore. Those who are sick or disabled or who have spent their bodies, like spent out their bodies in a lifetime of hard work, you know, and their bodies are now unable to perform physical work anymore. Or widows from 1 Timothy chapter 5, 5 through 11. So there's some exemptions there, but these men were clearly able to work and provide for their families.

This is interesting. Keith Lee brings up God's example for work. God himself, he says, is a worker. After all, he is the creator and sustainer of the universe from Genesis 2.2. As such, he designed a working vocation as a necessary part of life, even before the fall. And he expects each of us to be involved with some sort of vocation that we might support ourselves. Find a sense of significance and a destiny in our labor and to be a productive member of society.

And we won't go into it, but you could make a whole lesson or two or three about God's example of work and what's godly work. Even if you're not talking about missionary work or work around the church, just regular work. And you could pull these verses out of 2 Thessalonians, 1 Thessalonians, many other places and put together a whole topic of that. God's example of work, work was designed or assigned to man before the fall, to Adam, right?

He was to cultivate and keep the garden in Genesis 2.15. It wasn't toil yet. It became toil and it became very difficult after the fall, but he was a master gardener in the garden and he was busy with that. And Mike always mentions that He also had the job of naming all the animals, which sounds easy, but I think it was a lot of, because there's a lot of animals, and he needed to name them according to what they did. So he had to be a wildlife biologist and really study them, and that was work for him.

I don't know where I think Mike gets that. Does anyone know if that's actually said in the the canon of scripture, or that might be another source. I think it's from part of the Jewish tradition that that comes from. Point C here is an interesting point from Keithley again, Keithley III, as Bob calls him.

Men were called by God to do God's work when they were working another job. So Moses was tending Jethro's flock in Exodus 3. Joshua was working as Moses' servant. In Exodus 33, 11, Gideon was threshing wheat. It happened to be caught threshing wheat when the angel of the Lord called him to service in Judges 6, 11.

David, of course, was out, you know, far outside the homestead on an extended period, tending Jesse's sheep, had to be brought in, and had to be brought in to talk to Samuel, 1 Samuel 16. Peter and Andrew were caught fishing, and then James and John, just like the next day, were were approached by Jesus and taken into service as they were mending their father's nets, from Matthew 4, 18 through 21. And I think their father was Zebedee there.

So that's an interesting point that Keithley brings out there, that all these men were taken while they were working other jobs. Weest's translation of verse 11 then is, for we hear that certain ones are ordering their behavior in an unsubordinate manner among you, not working for a living, but are busying, I like this, but are busying themselves about everybody else's business. And that's a nice way to say being a busybody. The word busybody up there in verse 11 is perigizomai.

And peri, the first part of that Greek word is about or concerning about something or around something or near something. And then erigazome, erigazome, erigazome is work or labor or trade, producing something, doing business. I think the noun is ergon, and ergotomai is the verb, I believe. But there you have it.

So it's not work, but it's peri-work. It's around or about or concerning work. you could say it's busy work. You have that phrase, busy work. Well, like I have to, here at the office, sometime I have to go shred a bunch of paper. And so that's not really work, that's busy work. So that's sort of around work or concerning work, but it's not the actual work we do, it just has to be done. So, So there is an example of busy work, but these men were engaged in poking their nose into other people's work and getting food from them and drink.

I thought of the best example for perikitsumai is any three-letter agency of the federal government. You think of the federal government, and they're busy about getting themselves into your work and telling you what to do and how to do things. And you have all these agencies, and there's a $3.5 trillion thing where and now we're gonna have to report maybe all transactions if we move money $600 or more. So that's a perigizomai. That's just that's not doing business, but that's being concerned with someone else's business, isn't it?

Here in verse 12 Let me read that, now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion, here's the command, to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread. So I've titled this page, Yet Another Command in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

We've seen that before in verse 6. Paul commands the Thessalonians, perangelo is the Greek word command, by the authority of the name of Christ Jesus to keep away from the unruly or disciplined ones. So this is the second command in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. It's in verse 6, and then Paul gives it again in verse 12. The command in verse 6 is addressed to the greater assembly of Thessalonians who are correctly working and being industrious, whereas this in 12 is commanded. He uses the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ to directly address the offending parties, you know, the unruly ones who aren't working.

So I found that interesting. both commands are directed to a different group of people. Weiss' translation, with his emphasis, is, now we command and exhort, we beg of them, please, in the name of, in the name, in the Lord Jesus Christ, that in quietness they may they be working for their living and be eating their own bread. I kind of butchered that, but let me do that again. Now, we command and exhort, we beg of them, please, in the name, in the Lord Jesus Christ, that in quietness, they be working for their living and be eating their own bread. And again, that brings out the, the tenses and the tenses of the verb and things like that. And it's expanded and explained. So finally, I have some final observations.

The unruly ones, the ones who are shirking work in 6 through 12, are not spoken of as wicked men, as William Kelly brings out. Compared to, you remember, and Bob covered it in chapter 3 and verse 2, there were unreasonable men and wicked unbelievers who were you know, giving Paul a lot of problems. And he asked, Paul asked for prayer that he be delivered from those wicked men in 3.2. But here, these men aren't wicked, they're just They're just busybodies, and they're work-shirkers, so less of a problem, but nonetheless, this needs to be worked out in this fellowship.

There's a window here for reconciliation, a view to reconciliation and repentance for these men. The transgression is not as bad as that young man we covered, Roger and Mike covered in the morning 10 o'clock study of 1 Corinthians 5, 1 through 13. That man in 1 Corinthians was involved with his stepmother. That was a bad transgression, if you remember. In 1 Corinthians, it's interesting, Paul calls for the man to be removed from the assembly, to take him out of the body of believers there in Corinth. And he says, remove him from your midst.

And he also quotes Deuteronomy, three places in Deuteronomy, chapter 13, 17, and 22. And it's variations of this phrase, thus, you shall purge the evil from among you. And in Deuteronomy, it's talking about like taking that person and then stoning them or putting them to death. Very, you know, law stuff, very harsh stuff. is the force of the Deuteronomy passages.

But in Corinth, he just asks that the man just be removed from the assembly and probably not killed under grace, you know, because we're in the grace age now. Whereas, in Thessalonica, it's interesting, it's the opposite. Paul commands the assembly, or the body of believers, to remove themselves from the man, or the men who are kind of riling up the Thessalonians and shirking honest work. So it's an opposite command. I found that interesting.

And there's probably reasons, you know, if it's really bad, you remove the person, but If it can be corrected easily, you just sort of shrink back from your affiliation with the person. The man in Corinth was asked to be restored to the fellowship by Paul in 2 Corinthians 2, 6 through 11. So he had mended his ways and he repented or he changed his mind about his sin there with his mother-in-law. And they didn't want to take him back, and Paul said, well, yeah, you should take him back.

So therefore, these atactos men, these out-of-ranks men from Thessalonica, I think all the more could be restored because it's less of an egregious kind of sin, isn't it? And then finally, this issue of working for self-support. is the second major theme Paul has in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, just behind the amount of space he takes about discussing the rapture in 1st Thessalonians, and then the day of the Lord in 2nd Thessalonians. Behind those themes, this work issue is the next kind of biggest theme he's addressing in both of the epistles. And I've just referenced there where the work issue is stated in 1 Thessalonians.

It's stated in 1 Thessalonians 4.11, 5.14, and then of course, today and last week in our study of 2 Thessalonians, it's covered in chapter three, verse six through 12. What time do we have out there?

I have 1141. Okay, so I don't have my notes. I have 941. Okay. I don't know how I'm so different from Kathy, but Well, yeah, we'll end it there. It's a little shorter this morning, just because the material is so tied into last week, right? Yeah, I mean, versus last week. 10 and 6 are very similar. Paul sort of restates himself here. There we go. I got it in under the wire. I started late, so that's good. There's where we'll close it up here.

I did give you a little supplement. here, and all it is, is Weist's expanded translation of 2 Thessalonians 3, 6 through 9, and 10 through 12. So that ends the presentation of paper, or the presentation on paper, just so you all have that Weist translation, because I don't think we had I don't think we had his stuff in a study form, in a PDF, so I had to go to his book, his actual physical book, and copy that all out. It was kind of hard. If you've ever tried to copy a book, that wants to close back up and you're trying to keep it open and type, it's pretty difficult.

So that was work for me. It was good. It was my work. Andrew? Yeah, go ahead. That's a good use for that stack of papers before you shred it, if you use that to hold the book. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because they're heavy. Yeah. I need one of those very heavy placeholders, those book holders that have the weights. So I think it's all correct there. There might be a mistake, but I think it's good kind of doing it with one hand and not having someone to read it to you and you can type. But there you go.

Another suggestion might be to, like when I want to open up a book and it keeps closing up, you can have the binding of it shaved off at like a place that does binding, and put the circular things on there, and then that's it. Yeah, but then you sort of ruin your book, don't you, in a way? No, you don't ruin the book, but you just lose it. I mean, you can't tell what the book is because it's just a binding.

Yeah. It doesn't look as nice on the shelf if it's got a nice binding. Yeah, that's a good way too. That's how my Bible is at home. It has one of those leather covers that zips. And if it didn't have that, it would be all over the place. It doesn't have a binding anymore. So the leather cover keeps it together. And I think I've duct taped it. Yeah. So, I'll close real quick here.

Heavenly Father, thank you for this time we've had in Sextant-Ninth Salons, and just be with us as we close up this book here the next week or two, and be with us all this week in that we pray for all the unsaved in the world, and we pray that they hear the gospel, hear it accurately, that your Son, Jesus Christ, came to the earth, as a human being and he was he was put to the cross for our sins and if we simply believe that we have eternal life in his name and we pray these things in Jesus name amen