Jude vs 14-16 Doom of Apostasy

So where are we at today? We're at ultimately, just as a reminder, We're at June 14th through 16th. I'm gonna put up the same outline I did last week, which Roger did a couple of weeks ago. So we're dealing with the warning of false teachers, something we, I think, are learning a lot about, having just studied 2 Peter. So as we proceed, the verses five through seven identify failures that relate to certain Israelites, certain angels, certain pagans. And where we're at now in terminating this section is verses 8 through 16. So in the section 8 through 16, nature of the error, seriousness of the error, which is really what we talked about last time, you know, all the metaphors, remember the metaphors we discussed last time. And the topic today relates to the consequences of the error. And I think we'll read verses 8 through 16, and then we'll pick up at 14. So verse 8, likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil, he disputed about the body of Moses. Durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the Lord rebuketh thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not. But what they know naturally as brute beasts and those things, they corrupt themselves.

Woe unto them, for they have gone in the way of Cain and ran greedily after the heir of Balaam for reward and perished in the gainsaying of Cor. These are spots in your feast of charity when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear. Clouds they are without water carried about of winds, trees whose fruit withereth without fruit. twice dead, plucked up by the roots, raging waves of the sea, thumbing out of their own shame, wandering stars to whom has received the blackness of darkness forever, or reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

And here are our verses for today. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these saying, behold, the Lord cometh with 10,000 of his saints. to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and all of their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against them. These are murmurs, complainers walking after their own lusts, and their mouth speaks great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage." So those are our verses for today. Now, I'm gonna read 14, 15 again, and that's gonna be the topic together for most of our lesson this morning. Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, pay attention to each of these phrases here, prophesied about these men also saying, behold, the Lord comes with 10,000 of his saints. to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds, which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

So I'm gonna start off today with some questions ahead of time, which I want you to ponder, and then we're gonna individually address them going forward. What is the first thing that comes to mind when the name of Enoch is mentioned? So think about that a little bit. Secondly, why did Jude need to mention seventh from Adam? Third question, how accurate is 10,000s of his saints? 10,000s, it's plural. Is that 10,000 or anyway? All right, why are all and ungodly being repeatedly emphasized here?

So those are some thoughts about our lesson today. So let's see how we proceed. I think important to state up front is that many commentators relate this passage to the Book of Enoch. Now, what's the Book of Enoch? Well, it's not the 67th chapter of the Bible, but I thought I'd give you a historical perspective. And I've looked at a number of commentators about what this Book of Enoch is all about. So bear with me.

I've selected one from Vincent. Okay, so Vincent goes on to say, the Book of Enoch, which was known to the fathers of the second century, keep that in mind, was lost for some centuries with the exception of a few fragments. It was found entire in a copy of the Ethiopic Bible in 1773 by Bruce. Became known to modern students through a translation from this into English by Archbishop Lawrence in 1821.

It was probably written in Hebrew. It consists of revelations purporting to have been given to Enoch and Noah, and its object is to vindicate the ways of divine providence to set forth the retribution reserved for sinners, angelic or human, and to repeat in every form the great principle that the world, natural, moral, and spiritual, is under the Hebrew.

And to repeat in every form the great principle that the world, natural, moral, and spiritual, is under the immediate government of God. Besides an introduction, it embraces five parts. One, a narrative of the fall of the angels, and a tour of Enoch and company with an angel through heaven and earth, and of the mysteries seen by him. Two, Parables concerning the kingdom of God, the Messiah, and the Messianic future. Three, astronomical and physical matter attempted to reduce the images of the Old Testament to a physical system. Four, two visions representing symbolically the history of the world to the Messianic completion. And five, exhortations of Enoch to Methuselah and his descendants. The book shows no Christian influence, is highly moral in tone, and imitates the Old Testament this.

So my only conclusion is, so why was this left out of the word of God? I mean, it's left out. So, but it's amazing how many commentators refer this past to this book, which apparently exists, and I gave you the history there, and they rely on this to some extent, although they all kind of put a qualification in that this is not in the word of God, and I'm not sure how much it can be believed. Any thoughts about this? Has anyone been aware of such a book? Does anybody know that this book even exists?

Well, I'm not gonna order one actually. I'm shooting it on Amazon. Amazon has it, I'm sure. Well, we'll let Amazon keep it, right? Anyway, well, apparently it's given some value to the interpreters of the scripture. Okay, back to the text. What's the first thing that comes to mind when the name of Enoch is mentioned? Enoch is the one that said he didn't die because God took him. And who else had that same path? Elijah. Elijah. So Enoch and Elijah, as far as we know, are the only two who went directly to be with God.

Now, there are certain people like John who had a particularly wonderful experience, but everybody died in their earthly body, right? I mean, their physical being, the house of the Lord has died. As we heard Jay Vernon said, the spirit goes to be with the Lord immediately after death. But okay, so that's what I think about. I think that's what most people think about.

So let's look at Genesis 5.24 and then Hebrews 11.45. I think the documentation of this, and there's not a lot of scripture on this.

Genesis 5.24, and Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him. Now, what he was not, he was not what? What do you make of that? He was not. I didn't look at other translations for that.

Anybody have a better translation of Genesis 5.24? I'll wait a minute or two. Somebody wants to shoot one at me. I probably should have done that, but I was intent on the rest of it.

Well, you know, I've always thought it just means he was gone. He wasn't there. He was not, you know, like, he's not here. He's not there. Well, the rapture will be, we are not, right? Mine shows that the was is not in the scripture. He's not. And he not. He not, yeah. for God took him. Well, that's an inadequate transatlantic.

OK, well, let's go ahead. Hebrews, I think, gives us a little bit more detail. My faith was taken. Oh, Carolyn, I'm sorry. Go ahead, please. I was just going to say, mine says, then he was no more. Yeah, OK, well, that's that's a little bit better, isn't it? All right, let's go to Hebrews. I like this a lot better, a little bit more detailed.

By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death. Okay, I think that's what we rely on, isn't it? And was not found because God had taken him. For before he was taken, he had this testimony that he pleased God. I mean, there's a lot of detail in that one verse of Hebrews, isn't there? We don't have it in Genesis. So we have documentation scripturally from the beginning of scripture to near the end of scripture that Enoch was translated. All right, good. So that's the first thing that comes to my mind. And I think the other thing, why was he translated?

According to God, he was pleasing to God, right? He walked worthy by faith. And you know, he only lived like 300 some years. All his ancestors, you know, people came before him and afterwards lived a lot longer. But anyway, you know, for a short life, I'm thinking about the Lord taking somebody now at 30 or 35 versus 320 something or whatever, however many lives. All right, why did Jude need to mention seventh from Adam?

What do you think? Well, the Jews really, that was really important to them, wasn't it? Your lineage, the lineage. The lineage, the genealogy, okay. Other thoughts? Well, I have three points to make under here. First of all, perhaps it's to document the sixth day of creation. I mean, seventh from Adam? Hmm, I mean, so what came before Adam? Nothing, that's my thought. Here are a couple of other ones.

Logos says seven is the sacred number. In Enoch, freedom from death and the sacred number are combined. Jude thus shows the antiquity of the prophecies. And that one was a little far-fetched, myself. The Logos Bible interpretation gives us that to ponder. And Kasebo offers kind of a qualification.

However, the critics of this view, meaning of this, him being seventh, contend that Jude simply meant that Enoch was the seventh generation, I'm sorry about the space there, from Adam in the biblical genealogy. They assumed there were additional intervening generations that Moses didn't mention in Genesis. Yeah, I mean, whatever. So we don't have a clear answer of this, but yet we could speculate why it's necessary for Jude to mention that he was the seventh from Adam. Whether there are other generations or not, who cares, really? I mean, but, you know, scripture identifies Adam as the, or Enoch as the seventh from Adam.

Okay, first these men. Who are we talking about here, remember? Who's this scripture directed to? False teachers. Yeah, thank you, Bonnie. False teachers. We turn back to verse four from Jude. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who from long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. That's who we're talking about here. All right. So now, next question.

How accurate is 10,000 of his saints? Isn't that a term that it sort of means there's kind of no end? I mean, it's like, it's so many that can't be counted in other places in scripture. My translation has many thousands. Well, it could be, too, because it doesn't say 10,000, but thousands means, could there be millions of thousands?

I mean, yeah. Right, that's kind of. And if we think about this, how might we best interpret this thing? What do we know about the return of the Lord with the saints. Is there 20,000, 30,000? Well, let's go see what a couple of people say, and I think we can clearly interpret it the way you're all doing. 10,000 of his saints is literally his holy 10,000.

The word myriad is from the Greek term myrias, by the way, is the English spelling of the Greek word here. which latter word means in the singular 10,000. And in the plural, as it is here, an innumerable multitude, an unlimited number. The translation could also read His holy myriads.

These would not be limited to saints, but would also include angels. I think that's another interesting point. The word saints is the AB translation of the Haggis, which is an adjective meaning holy, but can also be used as a noun to mean saints. So that's least interpretation. So let's look at a couple of scriptures that look at this. In Zechariah, he prophesies, thus the Lord my God will come and all the saints with him. Well, are we saints? Yeah, we're going to be with him.

Secondly, Luke 12, 1, in the meantime, when an innumerable multitude, myriads is the Greek term, of people had gathered together. So we don't know how many people were gathered together there, but there could have been tens of thousands of people gathered together. And in 1 Thessalonians 1, 6, 7, since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, And to give you who are troubled, rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels. So in a sense, there's the concept that we mentioned.

This may not only be saints, but also heavenly angels. I mean, those angels that have fallen are obviously not going to be part of this group. So I think how accurate is 10,000 of saints? We don't have any number, but it's an incredible multitude, perhaps.

And if you think about how many believers are that are gonna return to the Lord during the kingdom age, I mean, just a billion, who knows? That's an awfully long list. I think of those verses in Revelation that talk about the thousands and thousands. I mean, praising the lamb, like in chapter five. But it talks about thousands of thousands and referring to the innumerable. Well, look at Abraham, how he defined the ultimate. body of saints, although he didn't describe them as such, as the number of sands on the sea, right? Boy, you've been in the sea. It's a lot of granules, isn't it? Anyway, let's go ahead now.

The next question is, why are all and ungodly so repeatedly emphasized? What are your thoughts about that? Somebody, give me your thoughts on this. Well, he wants to emphasize they're ungodly. That's what I would say. That's really what I would say, is that it's to emphasize. He's being really serious about how ungodly these people are. This is Sunday school. This isn't sanctuary. Anyway, yeah, I think this provides an incredible emphasis on who these people are. Yeah. All right, let's drill down there a little bit.

It's interesting to examine the true meaning of to convict. So maybe we should go back and look at the text again. So here it says, behold, the Lord comes with 10,000 of his saints to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them. So I think it's kind of interesting, the true meaning of to convict, there's the great term, is to convince. or proved to be wrong.

Isn't that interesting? What do you think of when you think of conviction? Well, they're going to jail, right? Well, yeah, guilty. I mean, before the judge, right? But isn't it interesting to think about convincing or proving them to be wrong? That means that ultimately those who are being judged will understand why they're being judged. Well, just a little bit of a rabbit trail.

Yeah. I always like to when it talks about the Holy Spirit's ministry, he convicts The same word, he convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. I always like to render, especially the people I know, I believe, as convinced because conviction, they say, well, wait a minute, I'm being convicted by God. No, you're being convinced by God, not convicted, you're being convinced by God. So I think that's one of those words that you really have to get to the core meaning to make sure people understand what's going on.

But convince is a little softer pellet. It's still, they're guilty, but yet we're convincing you of your guilt. But can't it be both? Oh, it could be. In context, Bonnie, I'm just raising that as a neater way to think about all this ungodliness, is they're being convinced that they've fallen short of the glory of God with all their acts of deeds and sin. Good, good conversation.

And harsh, spiros is the Greek term, indicates harsh speeches, vain and profane babblings. Just by the way, harsh is the term that's translated, but it implies speech. The speech is not a separate word in the Greek. Harsh includes speech. And when we look at a verse here, 2 Timothy 2.16, but shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase the more ungodliness. Hmm, interesting. How often are we exposed to that today in the age in which we live? That could be the internet. Let's not go there, okay?

All right, so the next part of this, let's say, they convict all of ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds, which they have committed in an ungodly way, and all the harsh things, which is speech, which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. So ungodly sinners, not merely sinners, but proud despisers of God is the best interpretation of this. Boy, if we don't see that today, it's just kind of ramping up. People are proud of their They're saying they're proud of their ungodliness.

And they just want to display it. Well, and they're also proud to go after believers. We were reading, there's been some terrible things against people who are anti-abortion. There have been some, I mean, physical attacks on people who are anti-abortion, who are holding signs or whatever, standing out, I mean, where they're physically attacked, and the police are really not doing much about that.

They're sort of allowing those things to happen, and then they sort of come in and, you know, say, no, okay, now it's time. But they allow, even though they're present, which is kind of interesting in our society today that anything that has to do with the Lord, it's sort of okay. It's kind of open season. I mean, that's kind of my, how I feel about it. Okay, forgive the duplication here, I'm not sure what happened.

Let's go down to Ironside. And Ironside says, no longer will impious deceivers profit by a profession of Christianity while secretly working to undermine the faith of God's elect and turning the grace of God into lasciviousness. To everyone will be rendered according to their works. So this, you know, you think about, I guess I have some understanding, this is not the topic before us today, You know, for those who are unsaved, when they go before the judgment seat, the degree of punishment does relate to some extent to the nature of their shortcomings. And this, according to this kind of text and Ironside's interpretation, these people are really in for it.

I mean, we'll put that very lay language there. Because they're deceiving the elect. They're within the body. And that's probably where Satan is doing most of his work today, right? I mean, you know, the world system is all his. Right, right. And it seems like he's having great success.

I mean, just just looking around us, you know, not many people want to really study God's word and understand what's going on. They just they don't have an appetite for that. Well, Margaret and I were discussing, there's a sister of a former neighbor who called me from New York yesterday and is going to visit her sister. And I apologize for not taking her call because the area code wasn't on there. But I was on the piano practicing for this morning. I said I was practicing the piano for tomorrow at church.

And she said, well, I'm a singer. I'm glad to hear you're a musician, too. I said, I'm not much of one. But anyway, she's singing in some church today. I didn't pin her down as aware. Marta and I were discussing, well, it could be some mainline Episcopal. I mean, who knows? But she's in a church. I mean, at least, hopefully, she's hearing something. But she's our age. That's the thing. What's interesting is these are people our age. And my sort of thought is, At least they're showing up in the church, they're hearing something.

So, and they have some, even though some of these people, you know, it's all about just because she wants to sing, she's going to sing. But I was saying that her sister doesn't go to church at all. There's no spiritual connection whatsoever with her sister, who is a friend of mine. All right, now let's look at verse 16.

These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts, and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. Isn't that what we were just kind of alluding to? So my only response to this, nice list of fleshly characteristics, isn't it? How's this for a list for you? Grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts. That's a requirement for being political office today. No, it really is true, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, to be a politician, boy. You know, again, another rabbit trail, but one of our representatives, Laura Boebert, she speaks her mind, doesn't she? I'm waiting for her to get kicked out. Yeah, well, they threatened that.

All right, grumblers, which is better interpreted murmurs, I think, one who discontentedly complains. What's that look like? Well, but then complainers is used in the same phrase here, complaining of one's lot, credulous, discontented. So those two pretty much are the same thing with a different word.

Actually, for complainers, I have fault finders. Fault, I'm sorry. Finding fault, I'm sorry. Well, complaining of one's lot, I think is kind of like blaming everybody else for everything that is going on. I mean, I think the flesh is very good at that, isn't it? It's not my fault. It's somebody else's fault. Discontented, okay?

Numbers 11.1, now when the people complained, it displeased the Lord, for the Lord heard it and His anger was aroused. So the fire of the Lord burned among them and consumed some in the outskirts of the camp. Wow. Too glad we're not under God's law anymore. Was that when they were complaining about the manna? Yep. They were tired of eating the same thing.

And McGee points out that this manna probably came in a variety of flavors. It's actually quite tasty, probably. Now I'm not sure how McGee knows this. Maybe he was there. I don't know. Well, let's look at the book of Enid. Maybe we have some information there.

All right, walking according to their own lust. And that really simply interpreted being lead or order one's own life. We all do a lot of that, don't we? But we're not in the setting of deceiving the body. I mean, in other words, I think, you know, the flesh is always interested in ordering one's own life. And do we have to confess that? No, there's no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

I mean, even though maybe we get distracted by things. And by the way, I'm not promoting the American Diabetes Association today with my shirt. One of our Bible study couples gave us tickets to the Broncos game today. Some of you know I grew up in Cincinnati, so I'm orange and black today, not orange and blue. Yeah, that's a good idea. Maybe we can put her a few people down. All right.

So second Peter 2333 I'm sorry knowing this first that scoffers will come in in the last days, walking according to their own loss and again this parallel. of the epistle, Peter's second epistle to that Jew. A lot of parallelism here. And some of you know, many of you know that Mike on Wednesdays now is dealing with second Peter in terms of the end times actually may be before us right now. So we haven't gotten to that section of second Peter yet.

Mouth great swelling words, immoderate, extravagant. You know, that's the politician, Roger, don't you think? This, you know. these great swelling words, which are there to enamor and ultimately gain profit. 2 Peter 2.18, again, back to 2 Peter. For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. So aren't we able to perceive this type of behavior within our body?

You would hope so. You're talking about generally in all of Christendom? But I think, too, in these real big mega churches where you have thousands of people. I mean, I remember when I went to Cherry Hills and the Sunday I went to church, And I had been going there since there were 100 people at Cherry Hills Community Church. I had been there that long.

So I knew a group of people. And then we moved over to the Colorado's, Colorado New Sanctuary. And I taught the Dinky Singers with Winnie, because Winnie and Jack McBride were there. That was so weird. But anyway, I mean, the day I went in and I didn't know one person. I mean, I went to a service that I've been here, I've been going to this church since I had a hundred people, and I literally realized I knew not one person.

And that's when I said, this church is too big for me. I had to leave. But my point is, when you have a church that big and you have people coming in that have different things that they're thinking about and how they want, and they begin to give money to the church. And so, because they're big, you know, donors, all of a sudden the pastor and the staff, they start listening to these people who are giving big money. And so the whole church starts to change. Or you were somewhat deceived by some of the teaching there. Absolutely. Sure. And the hungry heart started to develop a little bit. Yeah.

And thankful just for, thank the Lord for this. A friend of ours brought Margaret to our Bible study in our home in February of 1990. And so that's when I met her for the first time. Well, then I know that I'd be married five years later. Anyway, so, you know, she came to the place where the teaching is not that, you know, sometimes I think we could be criticized for thinking we're on the elite church or something.

No, I don't. We have to humbly approach the word of God and lightly divide it. That's our task. And that's why we're here. We don't mean to look negatively on others who are buried in other systems. It may not be accurately dividing, but if they're saved, they're part of the body. But we can only pray that within our own body here, we're not deceived by false teaching.

So, along that line, I was gonna say the problem is, it's still probably in the cherry hills or whatever church. They're probably still somewhat preaching the gospel but in a lot of pulpits. Yeah, they are being blasphemous if you, they have their dressing and drag, and you read about some of them. Churches, it's really bad. They're being very blasphemous and they're speaking and really it's just so everything's okay In order to bring in all the world that everything's okay. And lesbian and gay pastors, and it's just really, it's bad.

Well, another thing that comes up this time of year is how many Christmas cards do you get, peace be on earth? I mean, you know, I mean, mean well, people mean well by that, but it just isn't structurally consistent, is it? I mean, I don't want to be critical about that, but this shows that they have a naive view of peace on this earth is never going to come until judgment. All right, let's continue.

The other thoughts about this flattering people to gain advantage or profit. The ILG has an interesting translation, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. Isn't that, that's the literal translation. Having men's persons, in other words, the people we're exposed to in admiration because of the advantage we take from that. Boy, that's profound. Good for the ILG.

The revised standard says showing respect of persons. We interpret that too literally. I think we're called to have respect for every other human and reach out and love to them. I mean, I find that difficult many times, but it's Christ's love that we're talking about.

But the respect of persons is kind of understanding people where they're at, I think. and ultimately working to perceive whether their intent is scripturally consistent. And Weiss is very good here. These are complainers against their lot ordering their course of conduct in accordance with their own passionate cravings and their mouth speaks in moderate extravagant things catering to personalities for the sake of advantage. So that's Weiss interpretation. of this section. And I think to conclude, just something from a guy named Major, who I don't know much of, but he was listed in one of the commentaries I was looking at.

As the fear of God drives out the fear of man, so defiance of God tends to put man in his place, meaning the way the Lord looks at him, as the chief source of good or evil to his fellows. What do you make of that? as the fear of God drives out the fear of man. So defiance of God tends to put man in his place as the chief source of good or evil to his fellows.

Does that accurately reflect what we've just read? I put that there just because I thought it was pretty controversial. The idea that defiance of God tends to put man in his place. Does that mean that if in fact our chief sources of good, God is satisfied? Or if it's evil, that defiance ultimately renders due? Is it saying putting man in the place of God?

He's kind of taking the place of man. Yeah, that's kind of what I think it says. Yeah, he's taking the place of God, and that's really what's happening. As a chief source of good or evil. Yeah, that's better. So man becomes... So we were put in his place, right? And that's what's happening. I was interpreting that. That's good. So I wanted to just discuss that. So the fear of God drives out the fear of man. So defiance of God tends to put man in God's place, right? So we've replaced God as the chief source of good or evil to us. Well, that's exactly where the world is. I mean, the whole world today. And a lot of churches. Absolutely.

All right, Roger, just to think going ahead, we have no Sunday school next week or in two weeks, right? Next two weeks, right. And the next- Let me pick up again where we left off. Actually, you can- I have the next two times. Bob teaches four- We're giving you a break. Two weeks on, two weeks off, two weeks on. Hey, it's not a deal.

Okay, any final thoughts about this section of June, because we're going to kind of move in a little bit different direction next time. Any thoughts or comments? All right, let's close in prayer. Father, this epistle really has a lot to consider and we have to be careful and spirit led as we discern those who are in position of teaching and leadership here at Holly Hills Bible. We're so thankful for the leadership we have here. And we're thankful for the word of God that it's there for us to rightly interpret and divide. And we're reminded constantly about the importance of this area, which is impacting so many churches around the world. And may we lift up the wisdom and Bible-based interpretation of scripture for the body of Christ worldwide, that they may rightly divide the Word of truth. In Jesus' name, we pray. Amen.