Titus lesson 5 last questions

We are on lesson five, and I think we got through five questions. Mike and I have talked, we like to go through the verses if we can. that we're going to teach on, and this is on Titus 1, 13 through 16, so I'll just read that real quickly. This testimony is true.

For this reason, reprove them severely, so they may be sound in the faith, not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments, but men who turn away from the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure. But both their mind and their conscience are defiled. And we're going to basically focus on these in verse 16.

They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed. So again, that's pretty pretty strong statement. They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny him being detestable and disobedient and worthless It's pretty pretty strong Wordings by Paul on this so Question six kind of an interesting one and it's a little different than when we get to question seven so What does the walk of a person reveal? What does the walk of a person reveal about that person? So going back to 16, they profess to know God, but by their deeds, they deny him being detestable, disobedient, worthless for any good deed. So what are your initial thoughts about this question?

Is there a difference between a believer's walk and their talk? Yeah, I think so. I mean, you can be a believer and yet out of fellowship, and it shows sometimes in your walk. Okay. So does a walk reveal? I think it's kind of interesting. Does a walk reveal about that person? So does that reveal you as a person, who you are in Christ? Conditionally, no. Conditionally, no. Positionally. I was going to say conditionally, yeah. Positionally, no. Correct.

Any other thoughts? The one thing that came to mind to me was, it's a song I've had in reference a few times. It's a Bruce Carroll song. And it says, I would rather see a sermon than hear one any day. And I think that's kind of a valid statement. I can talk all day long and be all this stuff. And if you don't walk the walk, it doesn't mean you have to be perfect. We've had some discussions internally in our house about, you know, professing this, but it doesn't have to be 100% of the time, but on a generality, should your walk be a reflection of your position or who you are in Christ? Yes. It should be. Cheryl's there with yeses on all of these. Well, you know, it depends on if you're You're a believer, and yet you're out of fellowship for so long.

There is discipline. Yeah, I don't know about, yeah, discipline or... Child training. Child training, you know, which is, I think, that was this morning's Hungry Heart, I think, was child training and what that means. It's not out of malice. That's, you know, as in my prayer. It isn't out of malice. It isn't like, you know, you did something wrong, so you get a spanking. It isn't that. It's lovingly bringing you back to your relationship with Christ.

So, did you have something to add? Yeah, it's interesting that I think we live in a generation where, you know, we're invited to ignore the person's walk and listen to what they say. Yeah. And I think the Word of God is very specific about the walk I mean, Paul even structures his epistles that way, that here's the position, here's the talk, let's say, and then after that, here's the walk that's consistent with, and I was listening to, I might have mentioned this last week, I was listening to a tape by Miles Stanford. Nice to hear his voice. Yeah, obviously. You know, I never heard his voice. I'll give you the... I never knew him.

Anyway, he was talking about, it was really interesting, he was talking about how, kind of this way, but he said, he did about 15 minutes on the church, in the local church. He said the biggest problem, and I think this tape was done in like 1980, So the biggest problem in church is that everybody thinks they go to church to get, and that's not why you go.

You go to serve. And there's always something that everybody can do when the body of Christ meets. But everybody, if you, if the attitude is I'm going there because this is the place that I can serve the body of Christ, it can, you don't have to be a teacher.

He said, he goes through, it can be a myriad of things. It could be just, I sat and chatted with somebody today and you know, or I, that if you have that attitude, it changes the whole focus on why you go. And I've been thinking about that ever since I heard that, you know, that we don't, we really do have this attitude that it's not important to fellowship together with believers as much as it would have been in the early church. Well, I, I, you know, I referenced it a hundred times, Acts 2 42.

It's the fellowship. It's the, it's the elders teaching prayer. It's four things. You know, Yeah, breaking of bread, teaching, fellowship. Prayer. Prayer. Sorry. But it's the fellowship part that I get that we should, you know, that is something that was called out, you know, in the early church that they met all the time, not only Sundays, but they met, you know, at their houses all the time and they were to break bread, study and pray.

And so, you know, it was it was that was how they were to meet. How's that different today? You know, we should be fellowshipping together. You know, it's nice. We can do it virtually. That's great for those who can't. But but, you know, the the fellowship together is, I think, a key. It is a key. And we'll get into a little bit of that. Back to the back to your question.

I thought it was interesting that To know is I don't know I get into that. Yeah, so is that that says to me that there's a personal relationship Yeah, I will I'll touch that on question seven In in what that word isn't it? Well, you know present active and indicative and some things like that. Yeah to know so yeah, and and and Right now it's kind of in question seven. I'll get into that.

That's why this one is kind of what if you walk in your talk don't match What is that what does that reveal And I don't think and again, I want to go back to nobody's perfect. I fail I failed Repeatedly, but on a whole you you walk should reflect your your Position or you know that and who you are in Christ if you're wildly out of that all the time I think that's what's being spoken of here Is it if they don't if they just they talk but none of their their life reflects that That that's an issue That's that's why I thought that tapes I was listening to I Really really gave a motive that if my motive is I go to church ABC or D Because I get something out of it. Mm-hmm That's the wrong reason to go yeah Well in in with that too is you know again?

We parse these down and little thing remember what this section is remember who you know those who do it for sordid gain and Remember and all the qualifications for an elder and these people who are upsetting whole households and all this they're doing it for you know personal And that's wrong. You know, that's where you get off, is that it's now suddenly, you know, they're doing this big, you know, they talk the talk to get something or to draw people away. Remember, this is upsetting whole families and all these people that Paul's talking about to Titus on this. So these are the people who are, you know, their talk may be in there and they're in there, but their goal is detestable, you know, all the things you just said about how bad they are. They have no desire to edify the body, and we can look at that too, that, you know, we're to edify the body.

Mike's got a question. Oh, Mike. Hey, thank you. You know what, for me, just me, it's a craving of the fellowship. It's a craving of a relationship. And I believe there's got to create the fellowship that I crave. And it took, it had to set up this craving that I had within my own heart to understand what you cats have got in store for me and what you have, you know, what, what you have got. And it's, it's this fellowship in this, this, this, this love that God has for me because he wants, he wants to create a relationship with me just as you create this relationship with me. I wouldn't be here had it not been for this, this craving that I have for the, for the, the word that you teach.

And that's the gift. You have the gift within. And as the Holy Spirit reveals it ever so slowly with me. I mean, decades and decades. I find out that this is what I really, really crave. And it was spoon-fed to me in 1982 with Mr. Doyle and and showing up over there at the bookstore. It was set up that way, and it nurtured, and it started to heal me spiritually. So that's all I need to share, thanks. Yeah, don't give Mike too much. He gets all puffed up about that stuff. I give him credit for how I read the Bible, not to just read it to know him. He gets all puffed up on that.

I think the real key is, I think about this, when you go out in the world and then you find somebody who's a believer, you suddenly have a relationship that the world doesn't understand. I know when I find a believer, it's just something calming or I just have a relationship with them. Maybe I haven't really known them that much, but if they're a believer, a lot of times it's just a different type of relationship that I have with them. I think that fellowship is a key part of this.

What these guys are, are people that he's talking about, these are people who are not in for the fellowship. They're in for their own gain and they're talking a talk, but their walk doesn't match that. And so, as I said, whenever a person's talk and walk conflict, it is usually his walk rather than his talk that reveals what he really is. And I think that's a lot of times, you know, I can talk up, you know, I think of all these, these TV preachers. You know, talk a lot, I think I said Joel Osteen last time and some others, you know, oh man, polished. Oh, he talks wonderful things.

But then, you know, not really scripturally based and he's got, you know, whatever. And the other, the laughable one was the one pastor who needed a Gulfstream II instead of a Gulfstream I for his ministry because he just couldn't quite, you know, minister out of a Gulfstream I, you know. Again, some of these things are just, you know, the walk doesn't match their talk.

And that's what he's really, he's talking here. And I think it's scriptural, if you look at 1 John 1, 6, and I think this nails it right to what he's talking about here. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. So again, if we say we have fellowship with him and yet we walk not according to that, we lie and do not practice the truth. So that's what he's talking about here. You talk the talk, but your walk doesn't match it. Now, I want to repeat for the hundredth time, it doesn't mean you have to be perfect and you never fail. We all fail. We're human.

But as a whole, your walk should mimic what the life is inside of you. And this is also spiritual growth. As you grow in Christ, your walk will begin to mimic more of who Christ is in you. So again, it's not like a brand new Christian should walk, you know, have the full knowledge and walk perfectly and all that. And I think this is a growth issue that as you grow in Christ, as you have that fellowship with Christ, then your walk becomes more in tune with who you are in Christ. You think what you're taught, what you learn about God's Word from either a grace standpoint or a law standpoint or somewhere in the middle, like he's talking here about rituals and the purity and all of that. And if you're like me, you come out of the Catholic Church and the walk was really interesting. Yeah, yeah. Think about it. Oh, yeah.

And yet it didn't prove anything that had to do with knowing Christ at all. And yet, on the other extreme, you know, here's a small group of believers who study God's word and they fellowship around his word and they They meet around his word, they talk about his word all the time, and then you meet other people, like you were talking about, you run into other Christians. But what I find running into other Christians is you pretty much want to find out where they are doctrinally, which will determine how close the fellowship is. And your friends from...

Yeah, Hal. Hal is a perfect example of that. Where there's a... you know, you can, we went to dinner with a couple of people night before last and one guy's a retired Presbyterian pastor and the other guy likes Calvary Chapel. And we really don't have, I mean, we have some fellowship with them, but not like it would if we ran into hell. Yeah.

And I think, you know, that's one of those ones where, you know, when you meet somebody, you have a relationship, because you have the same life. If they're a believer, you have the same life. But, you know, you're brought into that relationship to show them the truth that we have. And I think those are the things that God will bring, you know, that fellowship. And maybe the fellowship's for you to, you know, drop some light on them.

So, you know, again, I think See, right there is where I think the difference is. It isn't what, let's say, this group of three of us, or six of us, with really different Christian backgrounds. I think it's how you just interact with them. It speaks, like you say, speaks a lot more And wait a minute, let me tell you what my doctrine is.

Right. No, I think, but as you develop the relationship, then you can share that. Yeah. But it's the fellowship that you have with them. Yeah. You know, and because if there's life, life in them, you have a bond. Yeah. So, and then it's, you know, like for Helen Beth, it was like, you know, wow, we are 100%. You know, it was very exciting.

You know, whereas others, we, yeah, you know, we have, where we, you know, meet others who are maybe Catholics or they're believers, but they're just not, you know, and as we said, you know, unless you have these, I, I am wholly convinced that if you, if you don't know the identification, you don't grow and, and, and because you're always struggling with the old man and all trying to improve and all these different things.

So I think there is, there is a lot of people who will have fellowship with, but they're not growing. And, you know, you're brought into their life to have the relationship and maybe, you know, God's using you. But again, I think it still goes back to the fellowship aspect. If there's life in them, we have the same life. We can have fellowship with them.

So one of the others, we're talking about the walk and that. One of the other ones I pulled up was the warning we got in James 1, 22 through 25. And I think this is a similar type, when we just looked at 1 John 1, 6, similar type one, but prove yourselves doers of the word, not merely hearers who delude themselves. Again, the warning of, you know the word, but you're not doing it.

You're merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone does hear the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in the mirror. For once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer, but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does. So again, it's not a law based, but it's kind of the same thing.

If you have this life in you and you have growth, it's a natural outcome of your life in Christ is to be a doer of the word. And so I think that the warning is the same thing. You can talk about it, but if your life doesn't reflect it, you know, he's talking about, you know, there's, well, in these, I think we get into it. These are the people who are either unbelievers who are talking the talk, but not, their life didn't match it. And so, again, James Warning is, I think, to believers who, you know, you have the Word and yet you're not doing it. That's a concern. The life should be expressed in you. It's not a law. It's not that you have to do it 100%. I think, again, James Warning is the same. It's not that you are doing this 100% of the time and if you do it 99% of the time, you're out. This is, again, on a consistent basis, he's giving this warning. So, I think there's also, this is when I was, and I looked at this, I thought it was just a secular statement, but if we look at 1 Corinthians 15, 33, do not be deceived.

Bad company corrupts good morals. And I thought, you know, it's who you hang out with, you know, and I finally, I'd known this verse and I kept, I had to search for it because it is, it's like, you know, your warnings from your parents, you know, who you hang out with is what, you know, that's, you know, you hang out with good people, not bad people. Well, it's actually biblical. Bad company corrupts good morals.

So it's who we hang out with is what's key. So I think the key on this is who do we hang out with? The Lord. That's who we hang out with. If we hang out with bad company, we're going to be dragged away and our walk's not going to be good. None of that. So again, if we have fellowship, intimate fellowship with the Lord, our walk will match our heart and our talk is kind of the gist of this.

So anything else before we move on to question seven and hopefully finish? Any other thoughts out there? All right, we'll move on to question seven. And this is a little different twist that Mike had on this question, at least I took it to be a little bit different.

Can someone talk like they know Christ and not walk like they know Christ? Sorry, I said this is a little different than the last question. This is more directed at the unbeliever that professed to know God, but the life clearly doesn't reflect a life in Christ.

So, this is in Titus 1.16, they profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable, disobedient, and worthless for any good deed. So, the one here is that they profess to know God. So, again, this is kind of, you know, who are these people?

They profess, okay, and that's the profess is in a present active indicative. So they're always doing it, they're doing it, and it's a fact. They're professing this. And that, Donna, this is, yeah, the word here for know is a form of Greek word, oida, oida, or aida. The Zodiac words means of God, to know, i.e. to acknowledge and adore God. is the way Zodiaty puts it for this verse.

So, they profess to know or adore God, but by their life they deny Him, which render them detestable, disobedient, and worthless for any good deed. So, who are these people? Well, verse 15, I mean this is kind of in the same group it looks like, they do not believe. So, I mean, it's talking about unbelievers. I think lots of unbelievers kind of use, kind of talk like this, sort of religious or whatever, but they don't really know God.

Right. And I think that's what they, I think the word here is they profess. Which is saying they aren't. It's just all words. It's all words. And again, the talk, you know, talk versus the walk. It's all in the same vein, basically, where these are people who talk a talk, but they certainly don't, their life does not reflect it. And so, yeah, whether they're, I believe they're unbelievers in this one. But these are people who are in the Crete church.

So these are the people that Paul is giving warning to Titus to about watch out for these people. And you know, he's given the qualification of the elders in the first. But then this is a warning that says, OK, now here are the qualifications for you. Now watch out for these type of people.

And these are the people who are unbelievers, who appear to be believers. They profess to know God. Know, acknowledge, profess that they know, but they're not. And their walk proves it. And I think that's what he's giving the warning to Titus to, is look at these people. If they're on a majority basis, their walk doesn't match their talk. Watch out for these people. I think that's what he's giving the warning to. Because again, everybody fails. Everybody's not 100% walking. There's days we fail. So it's not on that that he's talking about.

These are the people who profess, but on a regular present active continuously, continuously do this where they profess, but their walk doesn't match. So that's who he's giving warning to. These people who, you know, they get, they come to church and they stand up and they're great and they do all this stuff and then they go out and they're just wicked as can be, you know, or they're, they just do it for their own gain. They're trying to bring people away.

We, you know, I think they were still believers, but we had in our early years, we had people who were at our church who were less body believers, and they, oh, we want to come over and talk to you. Oh, we want to have fellowship with you. Well, that was sounded, oh, awesome. We have fellowship. We're new. We're young, married. Yeah, come on over.

Well, after 15 minutes, it was an Amway meeting. It was horrible. I just thought of this, for sordid gain. All they wanted was to get us on the Amway pyramid scheme. I think they even tried it twice and we finally, it's like, and just watch out for those people. They're in the body and all they were doing was looking for Amway customers to add to their pyramid. I thought I'd just think about that. This is exactly who he's talking about, those type of people for sordid gain. They profess all this and they were talking the talk, but then 15 minutes into our conversation was here came all the Amway stuff.

It was brutal as we were young married. Anything else I'm gonna read any other comments before I read Mike had a thing in his notes on from mounts Does anybody have comments for it's kind of a long thing? I want to read but I think it kind of hits pretty hard to any any other comments before I read something I'll say something Thank you. I think that I The spirit of Titus has to do with protecting the body and it's hard out there, right?

Like we've got unbelievers and believers and, you know, in terms of who you're hanging out with. You're hopeful, right? There's the evangelist in a person that wants to, you know, wants to communicate God's Word and see a change of mind and see somebody actually move to a different way of thinking about why they're here and where they came from and who their creator is. It's hard, right?

And to, I think Ingrid, if that was you, I'm not sure, but, you know, this is, it would be not wise of us, I think, to think of these people that Titus and are talking about here as believers. They're not. They are that crew that you just talked about. One thing that I think about is, goodness, there are so many people that don't know and don't have hope and don't realize, and they've got an opinion, and that opinion can't be stomached sometimes. It's hard to listen to. where folks are coming from. But in this case, these folks are really wanting to lead the church, the flock, away. They would have you get really excited about, I don't know, football, whatever, right? Hey, watch out. Yeah, I know. I see your wink and I hear your wink.

I'm just saying that it's very easy to maybe misappropriate what Titus is kind of getting at here and what Paul's trying to communicate is that there are those unbelievers that have a very vile and hurtful thought in their mind about pulling believers out, just like, you know, the analogy of the sheep and the flock and so forth. But we rely on our elders to protect us and to guide the truth of what the scripture says. And sometimes, you know, it just you get wrapped up and you're like, wow, I just engaged in a whole conversation that I didn't want to. And I feel, you know, you start feeling guilty and you start, and those are those, that's what the Holy Spirit does, right? That's the job. Yeah. Convict and make sure that you're, and to your point earlier, is this whole thing is a personal relationship. for believers. But, you know, I don't know. Just a thought.

I think that the underlying on this, I think, is the consistency of it. This is not just a singular failure and you do something. These people, on a consistent basis, do this. You know, they're professing in this. That's why I went in the Greek part of it is present active indicative. It's continually, they're continually doing this. They're professing, but their walk is nowhere near what they profess. They're liars, and it's hard to see a liar sometimes, because a counterfeit is supposed to be pretty good.

Sorry to interrupt there, and I keep trying to find it, and it drives me nuts, even in my great PC study about what I'm trying to find. There's a verse in there about talking to people who are consistently talking about, not contestable, but bringing up things that That's why I can't find it. It's about – these are people who constantly just kind of pick and do – bring up topics that are controversy – it's like controversies and da-da-da-da-da-da. And we're not to associate with them or it's like beware of them. These people are constantly you know, bringing up, uh, you know, contestable things or whatever. And they're, I gotta find it somewhere, but it, it's stay away from those people who, and I, you know, we've had people come into the body here and at others and that's all they do.

They just are always picking, always picking, you know, it's just, you know, if you have a warning about those, those people are, are not there for growth. There's a warning in whatever that verse is, I'll find it someday, that basically says, watch out for these people, similar to what the warning is here.

Yeah, I think, I think verse 15 talks about like it's a purity conversation, right? Yeah. And their desire is to get the conscious defiled. And it just keeps everything about the conversation just keeps going to an un-pure conversation. And, you know, their purpose is to get you on the same lane of thought that they're on, which is un-pure, defiled, and a believing ultimately. Right. And again, whenever I find this, I will find this verse. It just drives me nuts. I can't find it.

Titus 3.9 says, but avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unproductive and unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once and then warn them a second time. That's it. 3.9.

Titus 3.9. Yeah. We'll get there. Yeah, we'll get there. Right. We'll get there. In eight years. Yeah. But that's it.

You avoid those people who are just always bringing up these controversies. Yeah, the factious person. Yeah, the factious and all this. And that's what I think the same warning is. But this is for the person who is, you know, grandiose professing these things, but then go out and their walk doesn't match their talk at all. And again, it's an unbeliever. Again, I agree, both. I think it's talking about the unbeliever that is in there. It's the wolf in sheep's clothing. They're in and they are professing to be these great Christians, but not. So let me just so I can finish it, I'm going to read this real quick. This is from Mounce. Mike had this in his notes. Verse 16 is the hinge verse of the epistle.

Paul has addressed the initial issues of necessity of godly leadership and has called attention to the seriousness of the cretin problem. In this verse, he identifies a key issue. The opponents are teaching that what a person believes and how a person behaves are not related, and that godly living is not a necessary corollary to God's salvic plan and work. Then in the next two chapters, after giving instructions for different groups within the church, Paul will give Titus two creedal statements that show that obedience comes out of salvation, and this is where I have a little issue, and must come out of salvation, for it is a for it is a purpose for which salvation was provided. These verses 10-16 are the only real discussion of Paul's Cretan opponents. The situation in Crete appears to be similar to that in Ephesus with a few important differences. The problem was real since their teaching was already upsetting whole households and yet the Cretan opponents received less attention, suggesting that the problem was not as developed in Ephesus.

The opponents were unqualified, rebellious, inappropriate for positions of leadership in the church. In fact, verses 10-16 have the purpose of explaining why Titus must appoint only qualified people to the church leadership, verses 5-9. The opponents were teaching senseless babble, words without meaning. This passage clearly shows that the teaching was primarily Jewish and taught asceticism and guidelines for ritual purity and defilement. the opponents were part of the church but had left the truth of the gospel and therefore they must be rebuked so that they and the church may become healthy in their faith."

So again, just kind of thoughts on that. You can ponder that and think about it next week and Michael, well, whoever is teaching next week will take care of it. We are late. I am sorry. Ingrid has already gone off to the music. So I am probably being hailed as we speak. So we will finish here and close in prayer. Heavenly Father, we thank you.

We thank you again for the warnings in Titus and what you have for the elders and also, by extension, believers. And just to be on the awareness of those who, on a consistent basis, profess these truths, but their lives and their walk is nowhere near matching the talk. And just the warnings of that, to be cautious. Again, some just need repentance, the change of their mind, and to return as believers, and they walk, they're losing out in fellowship, but those who are professing that are unbelievers, who are just to draw and divide, severe warning there about their detestable actions. The warning here in Titus is to be wary of those, both from the elders and from associations for those of us out in the world associating with other believers or professing believers.

Again, we just thank you for the warnings and your guidance in this. And again, just the discernment through the Holy Spirit of these verses and discernment of the people we come in contact with, those who profess to be believers. So again, Father, we just thank you for your Word and the indwelling of the Spirit. And we just again thank you for this time. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen.