First Timothy, lesson 16 question 6 to end

We're on question number five. Lesson 16, number five. Is that what you recall, Mike? Yeah. Okay. That's what I looked up. Question five, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, define the word church. You know, the Greek, in the Greek, ecclesia. Mm-hmm. Called out ones. Called out ones. All right, we're done with that question. Next one. Yeah, in my notes I have called out body of individuals who assemble in a certain place. That's kind of interesting. Does it have to be in a certain place? Well, it does because it's a place, but does it have to be in a building like this? Isn't it made in houses then? House charges? Yeah. They did. But it was a place. And they were gathered.

And I think that's what this word Ekklesia means, right? A called out body of individuals who assembled together in a certain place, like we are today. For His glory? Yeah. to worship, to spend time together, to study together. And I like how you have in your notes here. You said, a spiritual body of Christ composed of believing sinners called into salvation. Isn't that cool? Believing sinners.

We're going to talk about that later. Today? Because we're going to try to distinguish between Jews and Gentiles, and so, and you can't, the Gentiles are not the church, but the Gentiles have been placed in a position of favor to God, and so that, and from that group, and Jews, God is calling out a special group of people, which is really described as a bride for his son. We know it as a church, and we think that it's kind of all-encompassing what God is doing today. And it is, in a sense, but there's another sense.

Gentiles, for the first time ever in history, starting when the Jews rejected Christ, have been placed in a position of favor. where this message can go to them, because it never did before. And so, one of the things I'm going to talk about is how the Gentiles have done a great job of screwing it up. Well, isn't it wonderful that we have favor? And isn't it wonderful that we're not under the law? two things there that mean a lot to being under the umbrella of the body of Christ. Just a curious fact, Mike, when you did that, I'm looking at the Greek, and ekklesia wasn't in here. It was implied in the translation.

So, yeah, it just says without. To them, without. But ekklesia was not in the Greek. Oh, the word ekklesia, it wasn't mine. Yeah, I'm just doing the inner linear, and it doesn't show that. Verse 5, church. Oh, I'm up in 7, sorry. That's okay. To them without in the church. Yeah, the ecclesy is in 5, I was in 7 where it's implied without the church, to them outside the church. Okay. I didn't know which church you were referring to. Let me go ahead and re-read these verses, just so we're all together.

Verse 4-7, 1 Timothy 3, 4-7, He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity. This is what we really kind of delved into last week. But if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he be able to take care of the church of God? And we're just defining that word church, and then we'll move on to some of these other thoughts. But verse six, and not a new convert so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil, and he must have a good reputation with those outside the church so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. So again, what we're really talking about here is church leadership requirements.

And when we get to these next few questions, we're going to get into some additional perspectives. And the next one is kind of the new convert. Why did Paul write hear about not a new convert. So number question number six is why can't a man be? Why can't a man be elevated to elder by a new convert? What do you think? Mine says or he may develop a clouded and stupid state of mind.

That's pretty accurate, I'd say. Well, how would you define the word novice? Because that's really what's going on here, is when you're a novice, you're a new convert. And I'm not going to attempt to pronounce the Greek, but it's broken up into two words. Neo, yeah, I guess I'm going to try. Neo-photos, made up of neos, new, and photo to spring up.

So there's an analogy that we're going to talk about, but why do you think Paul thought that this was an important point to make regarding church leadership requirements? New convert? What's wrong with a new convert? Well, they don't know anything yet. Still babes in Christ. They're babies. That's right. They haven't spent time in the word.

And in order to lead others, it requires time in the word. And it requires your own individual growth with Him. And I think that's really the more important part, is not just growth in the Word, but knowing Him. And when you're brand new, you know Him as a Savior, but you don't know Him in a way that you can lead others yet. And that takes time. I'm just saying, J.D., from a worldly aspect, I thought about this.

It's like, if you signed up in the Army, and the first day they make you a general, how good are you going to be as an officer who can lead your your platoons and squads and battalions and all that, if on day one they made you a general. You can't. You need the experience of climbing through the ranks, knowing everything, and understanding how it all works before you can be a general or a leader or anything. In the Christian realm, how can you defend the faith if you don't know anything about the faith? At least the earthly equivalent, I was thinking, day one you're a general. How good are you going to be? And how, how, how apt are you going to fail?

Yeah, I think that's a really good analogy. Right? Yeah. Reference goes to Isaiah 14. Okay. 1214. You read it for us? Yeah. How have you fallen from heaven? Oh, light birth bringer, and they start sun in the morning. How you have been down to the ground. you who weakened and laid low the nations, O blasphemous satanic king of Babylon. And you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will sit upon the mount of assembly in the uttermost north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds.

That's Lucifer. Well, he refers to Satan. Yeah. Help me track your mind. How does that translate here? Well, it's being blinded by conceit. Okay. Mike? I think it's a mistake that Christendom makes. someone, I'm trying to think of somebody, somebody who's maybe a famous leader in your country who becomes a Christian, and right away they want to make him some sort of Christian icon.

And he may be a great leader, lots of experience in the world system, educated, have the right temperament, But he doesn't qualify to be a leader in the church, because the church is something totally different. And so, Miles Stanford said one time that if you know anything about spiritual growth, it's like this, not like this. And so, he doesn't know. or empathize with the failures of the sheep that he's going to lead. But I've noticed that within these big denominations, if you have some sort of status in the world, you automatically qualify for a position in the church. You have a voice. Yeah, you do. And that's not a good thing. It's not a good thing.

If you're a high school teacher, what automatically will make him a Sunday school teacher? What does he know? You know, not just the words. What does he know the meaning of what he's teaching? Well, it's interesting that a lot of these qualifications have to do with how a person manages their household.

And not how they manage their high school class or the country. And this not being a new convert has This has to do, the illustration that is mentioned here in the notes that I have is the word is used of newly planted trees, right? They're just beginning to sprout. And Paul's saying, no new sprouts. Let's let them grow. Let them spend time with the Lord Jesus.

And then they can aspire to the positions that we're talking about here as an elder. So experience, and I think this is the key takeaway from question number six, as an overseer, experience is really important. In the Christian life specifically, not just out there. you know, doing your thing, experience in the Christian life, walking with him, going like this, and then going like this, and going like this. Those are the things that Paul is kind of talking about here, I believe.

Not a novice, not one who has just sprung up, but one who has kind of weathered some of the storm of the Christian life. And I don't know how much that is to a degree, but it's not the beginning sprout stage. That's not where it's at. The church leadership. After you've suffered a while. After you've probably suffered a while. You've weathered the storms. Yeah, I think so.

Well, question number seven, why is a new convert vulnerable to pride, conceit, and subject to condemnation? Mike, I think some of the things that you just talked about introduced us to that, but the words being lifted up with pride, conceited, to raise a smoke, to emit smoke, smolder, that's all kind of metaphorical, but to blind with pride or conceit, And I'll read the verse again, "...and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil." Yeah.

There's one of those hungry hearts that, I'm probably paraphrasing it, and I don't know who he was quoting, but the question was, how many people do you know that can slay a lion and not tell anybody? you know, with your bare hands. Yeah, no, that's an interesting thought. You know, like Samson. How many people can have the Lord do something wonderful through them and never tell anybody?

And that's the danger. Right there is the danger, because our sin nature demands that we get recognition for what we think we've done that's great. Okay, that's a really good point. our sin nature demands that we get some kind of kudos. See, and I think that therein lies the entire flaw to Reformed theology. Because if you put yourself under a law, the problem is that if you are successful, you're going to be proud about it. And so that disqualifies you from what the Lord is really looking for in terms of leaders.

What's the contrast to conceited? What's the contrast? Servants. Service? I was thinking the word humility. I think that they both kind of go together. If I'm not going to tell you about how I took down that lion, it's going to require a different motivation in my heart. A different life? A different life. Oh, that's a better way of saying it. Yeah. It's like the Lord Jesus washing the feet of the disciples. This is the God of the universe doing this. Yeah. And he's trying to teach them what it's like, what the job is going to be like being a shepherd. Yeah.

What about this portion of the condemnation incurred by the devil? How do we deal with that part? Talked about pride. Talked about the danger of it. Talked about the contrast of it, but what about the fact that Satan is, where is Satan involved in this? Who's the source of pride?

And some translations say judgment here, So condemnation incurred by the devil, some translations say judgment incurred by the devil, it's actually condemnation. So let's talk about what does this mean? Rebellion incurred by the devil, condemnation incurred by the devil. How do you become condemned? by the devil. We're talking about church leadership here. So, what does this mean? Courtney, I see your brain going. I've been trying to look at the Greek on it.

It is condemnation and falling to the devil, diabolio. You know, it's kind of interesting. I think of this and it's like, if he has pride, wouldn't that be to the acclamation of the devil? It's kind of weird that, you know, I'm thinking, it's kind of, and falling to, well, the Greek is not an obsolesce, being lifted up with pride is that the verse, and then in the condemnation he followed the devil. And I'm thinking, if he's in pride, isn't that the devil going, yeah, that's good.

You're thinking about yourself and the body of Christ or anything like that. It's like, I'm wondering why it's condemnation. It's condemnation of the devil. It's like, I'm thinking just the opposite. The devil's enjoying every bit of it if you're lifted up with pride. Well, that's the very thing that God condemns because God does everything to glorify himself. What the devil tries to do is to usurp that glory by asserting that, look what I did. Look what I did. On the other side of that is a good conscience.

You're a good example, Mike. You're the best man for the wedding. People said you did a good job. How do you feel about that, Mike? I really don't. I mean, that's right. You don't because you're there to serve. You're not there to get any kudos. That's not why you did it. Just that everybody was served.

Sure. That's what you really go for. And the worst case scenario is somebody steps forward and says, look what I did. Yeah. And that makes it, it spoils it, is what it does. For the body. For the world, it's like, well sure, yeah, you did a great job, like high fives all day. But within church leadership, it is, it's an antithesis to the nature of who you are in Christ as a leader. Well, it's just that same nature. Yeah, it is the same nature. Well, and I think that's a constant. I don't want to say the right word here. I think that's a constant battle for those who are shepherds.

Because you hope you're doing well. You want to be told so. And you would like to have somebody tell you whether, and it's okay if they say no, you didn't. But I can't tell you how many times the Holy Spirit has said to me, how's it going there, big guy? You think you're pretty special, don't you? And then, oh yeah, I didn't do anything. And there's the realization that God does everything. Isn't it kind of like trying to usurp authority? Sure, sure it is. And that's a big reason why a novice isn't qualified because that's the one thing he isn't experienced with. He doesn't know how to reject that and leave the glory in God's lap and just operate as a servant.

Looking at this a little bit more, trying to figure out how the condemnation, reading maybe what Mike had said too a little bit, being lifted up with pride and then into condemnation you fall of the devil. Now I'm seeing the link. It's the same condemnation as the devil. The devil had pride. It was the pride aspect of it. So you fall into the same condemnation as the devil. That's what this condemnation, it's the equivalency of what the devil did, you're doing now too. You're lifting yourself up in pride.

That's a really good point. Did you guys all catch that? Yeah. Alright, question number eight. Who are those outside the church? Those without is what we're looking at. I thought this verse 7 was kind of interesting. I'm going to link question 8 and 9 together. just kind of work together. Let's read verse 7 again. So we'll talk about the snare of the devil later, but let's talk about those outside the church.

So this person, this elder, this overseer, is to have a good reputation with those outside the church. What does that mean? And who are those outside the church? That's a thin line there. Well, answer it. Because there's so much wokeness in the world, you know. Well, let's talk about it from a biblical perspective.

Those outside the church, we define the church, the ecclesia. Those outside are obviously unbelievers, right? Even though they may be in a church, if they're not trusting in the Lord Jesus for the gospel message and the salvation of what He has provided to them through the cross, then they may be in a church, but outside the church. And we can talk about local versus universal church, but I don't know that that distinction is absolutely necessary at this point as much as unbelievers and believers. So we've got two different types of people, period. Well, you look at the Catholic Church and they claim the universal church, but their doctrine is incorrect. I don't have it all figured out yet.

That's okay. How do we define a believer? One who is in Christ. One who is placed in Christ. And how does that happen? This is the gospel message. We know what that means. You could be in a Catholic church. You could be in a Brethren church. You could be in... And there could be unbelievers there because they don't truly believe the gospel message.

That Christ died for me, personally, and that I was saved through his sacrifice for my sins, and I've been placed in him. And I have new life because of that. Now that's a Billy Graham, but you can still be in the body of Christ with the Billy Graham message. The question here is about church leadership specifically, but we're talking about defining those outside the church, and what that reputation of a believer looks like to those outside the church.

So, I'm gonna give an example. Sorry, Courtney, I'm gonna pick on you. Oh, thank you. Yeah, so, I go to the oil rig, or the, whatever, not oil rig, but the- Water well. The site. Yeah. Yeah, the site of where your coworkers are, and I'm like, tell me a little bit about Courtney.

All right, what's this guy like? and they have a reputation in their mind that they, you know, kick back to me and I'm like, okay, that sounds pretty consistent with what I know him as. Or I get a whole different kind of feedback. You've experienced this. I have experienced this.

With somebody in leadership and then you went to their work. Remind me what you're talking about. I'm not going to say anything, but. Okay. you've gone to their work and heard from their people below them a lot of negative things. Oh, about someone else? About somebody in church leadership.

Oh yeah, you're right. There is an example where what I heard in the field didn't match up with what I saw in the church. Yeah. Yeah, there's been, yeah, it was here. There was a real example there. But I could use myself as an example, too. Like, if you were to go and to talk to my coworkers and those outside the church, you know, that's what I'm thinking.

How do you think about this, Mike? Well, you... Neighbors, friends? And then how do you value that based on what you know about the person individually? I think wherever you go, whatever you do, you do have a reputation. Or what they call street cred. Street cred. Street cred. That's what he said. Cred. Credibility on the street.

He couldn't complete the words. And so you find that If you come to the Lord in your 30s like I did, there was an awful lot that had to change. And you can't go around checking off a list. It's got to be an internal change where you look back and you see, well, I used to focus this way, but I don't now. tell the church people that if there's been a genuine change—I'll give you a good example. When I was in the mission, we had a guy there that came forward who was a drug addict and received Christ as his Savior, and the Lord cured him right away. speed up the story.

What we didn't know about him is that he had a felony charge against him, that if he was convicted, he was going to go away for life because he'd be a three-time convicted felon. So we went through a trial with him and everything, and this guy's life really was changed.

And so we wrote letters to the judge and that kind of thing. We'll go to the trial. He gets convicted in about 15 minutes. Fast forward two weeks, listen to all the people talk about what they ought to do to him. And the judge says, the court is aware of the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. That's the first thing the judge said. He said, I sentence you to life in prison and I suspend the sentence. And so I saw the judge some months later, because I was on jury duty. I said, why'd you do that?

He said, because I knew that guy had changed. I could tell he changed. We've got a lot of crusaders in the courts around here. But that life did, in fact, change. He said, how's he doing? I said, you're right. His life has totally changed. So that's a reputation about a guy who, I mean, he's obviously... From the outside, you think, oh yeah. Well, it's the power of deliverance. Yeah, it is.

And that's death. And this judge was not a softie. He was known as the hanging judge. Yeah, Judge Flanagan in the Denver courts, he was nasty. But he was a believer. And he told me that his bailiff and everybody in his court prayed about sentencing every day that they had sentencing and what God would have him do. So I thought to myself, he knew there had been a change, and he had the power to change, to not send this guy to prison, and he didn't.

So why? How did he know? Because this guy's life, you talk about a guy that was on fire for the Lord Jesus, this guy was unbelievable. He came from heroin addiction. There wasn't a person, he had two Jewish lawyers and he kept telling them he was gonna get to go free. I thought he was nuts. Everybody in the courtroom, he's evangelizing everybody he can talk to. And he's sincere about it, he's not just running off, you know? Yeah, that's crazy. Was he a new convert? Brand new, brand new. And his wife got saved in the process and his daughter and their whole life changed. Let me ask you one question. I know we're at time, but I think we have one minute to deal with this topic. And maybe, Courtney, you can pick up on it maybe additionally next week.

But why does it matter that outsiders think of a man who seeks eldership? Why does it matter what these other people outside of the body of Christ think about an individual who thinks that he wants to be an elder, be a leader? And I think that there is a caution here. I'm going to read some notes. In the passage before us, indeed, Paul may be understood to imply that the opinion of those without the church might usefully balance or correct that of the church. There is something blameworthy in a man's character if the consensus of the outside opinion, that's the important part, if the consensus of the outside opinion is unfavorable to him, no matter how much he may be admired and respected by his own body or party. So, there's a balance there.

It's a check, though. It's a check in your brain. You know, what do the people think about the person that is being considered for eldership? What is their other outside neighborhood work life like? How do they regard this man? And it's something to be considered, to be balanced. Well, I look at Trump's predicament.

Is he a Christian? Well, if he's doing all that that he did, would that qualify him for a presidency? And that's what the Democrats- That's a good framework to think about. But in the sense of eldership, being a president, you don't have to be a believer. J.D., the thing I think about, it's almost like somewhat of a litmus test.

If you're two-faced, you have your Sunday face and your Monday through Friday face. And if there's a big difference, that's a red flag, that outside the church you're something different than who you are inside the body. And I think that's just the red flag he's doing here. If you have a reputation that you're just a hideous boss, a terrible worker, but then you come smiling on Sunday, I think that's a red flag that why doesn't your Sunday life meet your workday life? And that's kind of just a check and balance here that you should have a good reputation outside the church as much as inside the church. Well, the self-life does have the power to blind.

You know, next week, I know we're out of time, but let's talk about that some more, because I think, how do I say this? I think that there are a lot of believers who really are good people, are good in church, things in their life don't line up and they're not bad things, they're not godly things. They haven't grown in those spaces yet, and this is defining a man that has aligned those things.

Sure. Well, and also, remember we're talking about leadership, too. Right. This is leadership. You've got to put it in perspective. Spiritual growth. Leadership. This isn't just the average body of believer or whatever. This is somebody who's going to be placed into leadership. Right.

All right, well let's pray. Father, how we thank you for this morning and for the opportunity to delve into 1 Timothy and think about church leadership and just the way that Paul defines it. We pray that it would be top of mind for those of us that are in places of teaching and communicating your word, and just the kind of person that you have defined us to be when in union with you. And I think that applies to all of us. And so I just pray that that would resonate and that we would grow in these truths. We thank you for your grace and for your love. And it's in your name we pray. Amen.