1-3 John - 1st John 3 Review/Questions of chapter 3

But who is John talking to? He's obviously talking to believers. But who is he identifying when he makes certain statements about how they conduct their Christian lives? Or is he talking about false teachers and beware of them? Which he's done. You know, in chapter 2, there are many antichrists or false teachers. Beware of those false teachers. Be careful. So he does the same thing in chapter 3. But the challenge, I think, is to dissect who's he addressing.

So first of all, I thought it would be good just to get this basic 101 Holly Hills, I'll call it. So first of all, who would like to describe our position in Christ? What's it about? If you look in scripture, How do you know when a passage in Scripture is talking about our position? Any clues sometimes? Any words that kind of jump out at you when Scripture talks about our position in Christ? We're talking about something that's eternally true of us in Christ. Well, okay, hold that thought for a second. Children of God. Okay, that could be a position. We are children of God. Do we ask to be children of God? We never ask for that.

We see that when we believe, right? And there's just a whole So these truths are eternal, unchangeable, and they're just You know, and actually most of Paul's epistles, the first three chapters, will talk about who we are in Christ. Who we are in Christ is another way of phrasing that, our position in Christ. These are things that are eternally true of us. You know, as a believer, if we're not taught well, we may never even understand what it even means. Position may be just all in the gray matter. You think, I don't know what position is, I have no clue what that is. But those truths are eternally true of us.

There was one thing that struck me when I came to this church about possession, and I'll just try to be real quick, but that is that we were taken with Christ to do everything he did. We were crucified, we died, we rose again, we ascended and were seated at the throne of God. Excellent, excellent. That's great. And actually Schaeffer has listed 33 things that are true of the believer, the moment he believes, and we actually had a class that we taught. I think Bob taught with me and others, who we are in Christ.

So our position is eternal, unchangeable. So what we're going to see as we go through this review We're going to see that some truths that are expressed in chapter 3 talk about, I believe, our position in Christ. That's one set of... He'll talk about a certain aspect, and it'll be our position in Christ.

Okay, now our condition. What's our condition about? And there's a variety of words that you can use for condition. And John uses some different words than Paul might use. It's changeable, it's temporal. It's our walk, you hear about our Christian walk. Well, and that's where I would think abiding or not abiding. Exactly, that's why I was told to hold that thought right. Exactly. Do we abide in the truths about ourselves that are true eternally? Or do we abide, and we're going to see in the next picture we'll talk about where we abide. Do we abide in our simple nature? Do we abide contrary to the truths about us? So we're going to see that in chapter 3, there will be a bunch of statements that will be about our condition. And there's a subset of our condition. Our condition can agree with our position, or it cannot agree.

And hence, picture number 2. And this picture has been around, if you've been around Holly Hills for a long time, this picture has been here since, I don't know, since Hal Melloy was taught here. He's gone to be with the Lord in 2006, but the picture lives on and Vern's used various, but what's good about this, this picture as shown is about our condition in Christ. In our condition in Christ, we can be in one of two places in our condition in Christ.

There's a little lever here that has faith Right there has faith on the little lever that lever if it's if the faith is abiding in the sin nature What will happen when what's the consequences of that when it abides in the signature? Okay, no fellowship excellent Your spiritual immune system is compromised and there you are with the world's flesh and devil.

When I'm over there, it seems like everything is about me. Right, exactly. You focus on self and he kind of shows these desires and scripture in the King James is lust. Those lusts, they're desires and lusts from both nature's there. So they feed back into you and you're focused on yourself. You can't focus on the Lord. You may think you're focused on the Lord, conceivably.

And then when the lever is the other direction, by faith, and abiding is a faith operation, you could actually replace that word, you could say walking, walking in the light as he is in light. You could change that word abide into, there's various synonyms, abide, trust. But the operation is faith. where we place our faith in any given moment in time.

So in chapter 3, John's going to talk about sometimes that lover is over in the sin nature. He'll describe, he'll make statements about the believer when it's over in the sin nature and sometimes it'll be in the other position in the new nature. And then the third possibility, and this is the one that I struggle with, Sometimes I believe he talks about unbelievers and there's you know, we've gone through these verses I know Bob's present I presented them. I haven't been here when we haven't been all together and I apologize for that So I've kind of looked at the verses and I've taken my cut at it. So I appreciate your inputs You may not agree with me, but no, I'm gonna show you what I think.

Oh, hopefully what the Lord thinks okay, so Here's one of the key words And it's the word practice as translated in the numeric standard. And actually, I looked in other translations. It's used marginally in the margin, I should say, in the amplified. I didn't look in the NIV. In the King James, it's translated commit sometimes. And sometimes, it's do or does. The word is poeo. And it's spoken of as a course of action, conduct, to do. Actually, the word do in scripture is used a tremendous number of times. So you can look, there's hundreds and hundreds of verses.

But I think in this case, and actually there's a warning that Lyons put out. He didn't like the rendering. When it says the AV, here's Vine's warning. He says in 1 John 3, 4, 8, and 9, the AV, and that's what the British call the authorized version. And the authorized version, by default, is the King James. Maybe you knew that already, but that's kind of it. And the RV is a revised version.

So he has a problem with them translating that word poeo as commit. He says it's an impossible meaning. And so maybe we'll see what he's trying to understand when he talks about that, why he's so strongly opposed to using the word commit. He thinks do or does is a better translation.

And I kind of agree with that. Does or do is good. I think practice is not bad, but you have to understand the context. So let's look at the first time that this word, since I'm focusing on this word for the moment, practice is used. It's used in 1 John 3, verse 6. It says, if we say we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. Or you could say we do not do the truth, would be an alternate one. So, go ahead, sure.

My version doesn't even have that word. It's not even in... You have the King James? Why don't you read the King James? Yeah, it's not even in there. I think it is. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth. Well, it's implied. Do not do. It's a word for do. Do not is a do not do. Pueo is from the do line. The key word is translated many times as do or does. It's I do, you do, so on. So that's where it is, right there. So do not the truth. Yeah, do not the truth. So you could say, basically what you're saying is, do not do the truth. Sounds a little bit repetitive, but it's there.

Verse six? Verse six, yeah. Chapter one. Chapter one. This is chapter one right now. We haven't got a chance. You know, it's just I I was looking in three. He said through six. objective of the term practice. I just don't think that's anything but trying to put a legal metric on her behavior. It just doesn't make it, I don't think.

The core word is a course of action, so how do you want to describe that word? And the thing that's really interesting, and I went through that, I took the inputs that had been taught, and I said, well, is that really what the word is talking about? This word in 1 John 3 and also in verse 29, is always in the present tense. So, if you're going to translate in the present tense properly, for example, what does it mean if I say I'm doing something, I'm doing the laundry? Right now you are. Right, okay. In the Greek, when you have present tense, that can mean a continuous action.

So that kind of comes along with the translation. So that's where that word practice kind of comes in. It assumes that it's not a one-time operation. And that's what I think practice, in my mind, conveys. But I have no problem with putting do in there. I think do is certainly do or does. And King James does that. I have no problem with that. The commit one, I guess I kind of agree with Vine. It seems like commit is like a one-time action. I commit a crime. I commit a sin. This word is talking about an action that's continuing going on.

Could you say that rather than focusing on the action, it's focusing more on the source? Where the source comes from? Well, I think the source is going to be understood by the context. But I mean conditional Okay, okay, so what you're saying is... Are you abiding in Adam or are you abiding in Christ? The source of that. I think the source of the action, the word itself is just, you know, it's do, does, it's performing an action, basically.

I think it reflects a nature. I guess I don't see that, I'm sorry. Well, how are you measuring your performance today, Roger? Are you focusing too much on the old man or too much on the new? I mean, it just has legality laced all over. I just don't see it. General practitioner, remember that. OK, all right. So, I don't know.

Because in here, he's still talking about believers. Well, okay, let's just take our verse right here. Because I thought this whole book was to believers. I believe it is. So, if it's to believers, then it has to be talking about condition. If you're practicing or abiding in the sin nature, you would be, just like your diagram before this showed, you would be your condition would be abiding and doing things in the sin nature. Or you could be abiding in the new nature, right? He talks about that too. He talks about abiding.

For sure. Either one. But I don't think he's talking to unbelievers here. No, actually this verse right here, that's why I said I don't think you want to enter the question about the source until you read the context. So what would you say about this verse here? What does he kind of convey here? I think what Donna's saying, where are you abiding?

Okay, in this case, basically he says, if we say we have fellowship, fellowship is another word for abiding, right? We say we have fellowship with him, and yet walk in darkness, so he says, we're saying one thing but doing something else. He says basically we lie, and do not do the truth, or practice the truth. We're not abiding in the truth that we know. We're not reckoning there. We're abiding in the sin of it.

And is abiding a one-time affair? Is that something we do one time? It's changeable, right? Sure. Moment by moment. Right, exactly. In my mind, that goes back to the definition of our word, poeo. It's a course of action. Is our course of action abiding or not abiding? So I would say it says we lie and do not abide in the truth. Well, and I think both things are important. We want to continually practice the truth and abide in the light, but here it also says if you don't, you're in the darkness, guys. Well, actually, this was the easiest one. This is the easiest. Well, actually, the next one's not too hard either. So let's go on.

Okay, so here's our basically we have eight eight sections in chapter 8 chapter 3 we talked about so this is the first section Someone read this you read off the overhead This is from chapter 3 well actually starts in chapter 2 when combined the last verse from chapter 2 with the first 3 from chapter 3 If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of him See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God, and such we are.

For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

I decided to just ask questions. Our first question is just what Donna talked about. Who is the everyone that is practicing or doing righteousness here? Who is he talking about here? Believers. Obviously, only believers can do righteousness, right? The only ones that can conduct their lives in a righteous manner. Actually, they're not really doing it right.

Christ is living through them, so Christ's life is being Shown are flowing out through their lives Okay So what and that kind of go on kind of going on the next rise kind of just ask some questions going to each of the verses here What is the purpose of this great love from verse one?

It says see how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us So so what's the purpose of this great love from that verse? I? that we'd be called children of God. And such we are. And such we are. So that's a fact about the believer. A wonderful fact and truth about the believer.

Why does the world not know us or him? or a different creation. It kind of goes back to that picture I showed of Howells basically. We have a new nature, they don't. We can't have fellowship with them. In fact, actually that's what we spent a lot of chapter 1 and 2 about, having fellowship. We have no method or no nature for fellowship.

What has not yet appeared about the children of God? This comes from What we will be. Right. So actually since we haven't, you think about the Mount of Transfiguration where the Lord was revealed, his true nature was revealed. We're in the same situation I kind of see. Our true nature has not been revealed. So basically that hasn't been revealed about the children of God.

And then lastly, in verse 3, it says that everyone who has this hope fixed on him purifies himself just as he is pure. So, how is this purifying accomplished? One way to streamline yourself of what the blacks said to themselves and others when they were freed from slavery, we ain't what we gonna be, we ain't what we ought to be, and we ain't what we should be, but thank you Lord we ain't what we was. I don't know that much about it, but Isn't this kind of about sanctification and how we slowly, the spirit changes us and then when we finally see Christ it's the ultimate. Well, I think that word purify actually has a root, holy is the root of that word. So actually I think what this is kind of talking about, this is really As we allow Christ to live his life through us, I am crucified with Christ.

Galatians 2.20, I am crucified with Christ. Nevertheless, I live. Not I, but Christ lives through me.

And so on. So I think that's basically how, as we put our faith and trust in him, that's how that's accomplished in the believer's life. Okay. Alright. Anything else? Well, I'm looking at that word I'd like something that I would do and know that we're in Christ and when you're walking in fellowship with him you are purifying yourself. Right, exactly. We can't really purify ourselves. We can't by some set of efforts we can't make ourselves pure. It has to be his life that is pure. But in my way of thinking, this doesn't really say that. I've been educated to know that that is the truth. But this one here, I think, if you just try hard enough, you'll be okay, you know. Right, exactly, exactly.

I have a question. I've always thought, but I don't know if it's true, so that's why I'm asking, is that then what this is saying is or what the Bible says on the whole about this process is that we don't choose which sin we get rid of first or which flaw we get rid of first but Christ will choose and convict us of various things and then he takes over and takes care of it. Well, I think as we behold him, we become more and more like him. So my question was going to be the verse in Corinthians, as those beholding is in a mirror. Right, I think that's good too. Does that verse go with the last verse right there? Actually, some people like to have, that was the parallel verse they put in there.

My thought actually, back to Vicki's question here, you know what, What God has done, He has condemned our sin nature. He hasn't said, well, okay, there's a couple of bad ones in there, some really bad ones in that sin nature I'm going to focus on. He says, it's all bad. He said, I'm going to condemn it, and I'm going to separate you from that sin nature, like the picture we have from Hal.

So you've been separated from that sin nature. You can choose to go back there, but that's not his desire. So it's not like he wants all or nothing. He wants you to be walking with him in fellowship, abiding with him, where his Christ-like can be lived out through you. If you go back and abide in the sin nature, it doesn't really matter which one of those sins pops up. They're all... Don't you notice that As you go through life you stop doing some things but other things don't flare.

I'm just trying to be realistic. I'll tell you personally what I found is the more I know Christ the more I see about myself I hate. The more I see my motives the more I examine myself and say that's a terrible motive. That's awful. Well I may have missed that before. So I think the more you see Christ, the more you look back and look at yourself and you say, that's not where I should be. Sin just gets in the way. I think if we're too focused on our sin, we forget the Lord. It's like taking out the trash, the analogy that Vern brought up. When you take out the trash, you just take it out and throw it away. You don't dump it out on the table. Examine it and look at it. And look at it and see.

Oh yeah, that's what I had for dinner on Tuesday. I actually see more sins as I get to know the Lord better. That's me personally. Well, they probably couldn't show us all of our sins at once. They couldn't handle it. This is the first of eight. Thank God He only gives us one conviction at a time and not tries to hit us. Exactly. Amen.

Alright, so this is, can someone read these three verses here? sins, no one who abides in him sins. No one who sins has seen him or knows him. Okay, so the first question is, we're looking for the who's here. Who are the who's? Who is everyone referring to in verse 4? Everyone believer or unbeliever. That's good, excellent. I looked at that and the more I looked at that I said, well that applies to everyone.

Now, of course, I think in this application, he's talking to believers, so he wants you to be, and he's going to talk later on about the fact he doesn't want you to be deceived. He's concerned about self-deception as well as others deceiving him. We're going to see that in the next set of verses. So the first one could be either, I thought. Is practice or doing sin talking about our position, our condition. This is talking about verse 4.

Well it has to be conditioned because if we're believers we're in him and he doesn't see that sin. So this has to be conditioned. But for unbelievers their position is conditioned. It's both for unbelievers. I like that. How is sin defined in verse 4? Lawlessness. I put some easy ones in there. Don't you love the irony that sin is lawlessness and the way we try to deal with sin is putting the law on it?

That's an interesting point. That's good. We try to say that's a good point. Excellent. Actually, this should be, what two things are said of Christ in verse 5? I'm sorry, say that again. Okay, what two things are said of Christ in verse 5? This is another easy one. He has no sin. Okay, that's one. What's the other one? He can't take away our sins. Okay, excellent. Good. Amen. Okay.

How can we sin from verse 6? I'm sorry. How can we not sin from verse 6? Well, by abiding in him. Excellent, excellent, okay. We're abiding in Christ, and we already saw that Christ has no sin, so that's... Well, it goes back to your diagram. Right. Where is your source? Right. The source in... The sin nature or Christ. Right, exactly.

I hate the bunny trail, but I do think that when we're not abiding, he calls me back. Of course he does. Of course he does. The spirit of God, he doesn't want you out of fellowship, right? He wants you in fellowship with him. If you're a parent, right? If your kids are doing the wrong thing, you just say, I'm not going to talk to them anymore. Maybe at some point you might say that. But normally, you want to encourage them to come back. Please come back. Let's talk about this. Let's have a dialogue about this. And you do that as much as they'll let you. Sometimes I wonder if they don't look on the caller ID now and say, it's mom calling or it's dad calling. You don't want to answer that call.

Who is the no one who has not seen him or knows him? That's the last half of verse six. No one who sins has seen him or knows him. This is a shocking statement. I mean, you look at this. It is difficult. He makes these black and white statements and you say, well how can he say some of these things? And you say, who's he talking about? So this is a challenging one. But he's still talking about abiding. So it's the person who's not abiding. Because if you are abiding, you're not the one. And I would go along with that.

Except that the verb tense is basically seen and knows. If it was present tense, I would say, he's not abiding in the Lord. Because he's temporarily out of fellowship, he doesn't know him temporarily, and doesn't see him temporarily. But what just grabs me here, and I say, how can I not translate it this way? Seen is in the perfect tense, and knows in the perfect tense. If you remember the perfect tense, that's past, present, and future. He says, he didn't see him in the past, he doesn't see him now, he doesn't see him in the future. He doesn't know in the past, he doesn't know him now, he doesn't know him in the future.

So when I look at that I say, what conclusion can I come to? If I make that a believer, then I got to radically change my definition of abiding in, you know, I have to change the definition of a believer. And that's where I come, I want to see, my first goal is to see the believer in most of these verses. But sometimes these kind of pieces pop up and I say, how else can I translate? And this is one of the cases right here. Well, you could also look at it this way. You're dealing with the old nature and you're dealing with the new nature. As far as the old nature is concerned, it's been true, it is true, and it's going to be true. Old natures want to come up with excuses to insert law in.

To do this, to do that, but not to abide. Anything but. Anything but. Well, if this said my sin nature, this is talking about a person. It's a person that's talking. It's a pronoun for a person. It's not a nature. A believer has two natures. So this is talking about the total believer. So the total believer has seen him and has known him. So hence, I have to say, I go with the unbeliever in this case.

OK, so let's go on. Next one. Could someone read this? Little children, make sure no one deceives you. The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because his seed abides in him. And he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious. Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

All right. So these are just really little easy verses we'll just flip right through, right? OK. If you think it's hard teaching this right now, imagine preparing it and saying, And we all struggle with these. I mean, it is not even... Lord. Okay. Little children, make sure that... Let's just ask the questions here. Okay. Who is the one practicing or doing righteousness in verse 7? Okay. Right.

Make sure no one deceives you. Actually, this word deceive is kind of worthy of note. It's a word for wandering. So he's cautioning his beloved little children, believers, make sure that no one, he's talking about a person here, right? No one. I believe he's talking about yourself as well. It could be self-deception. No one causes you to wander. It could be you. You can cause yourself to wander by being in the wrong places and whatever. Being in your sin nature.

The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as he is. So that's pretty straightforward. Next question. Who is the one doing sin or practicing sin in verse 8? Unbelievers. And we have to ask why. Why would we say that? The one who practices sin is of the devil. And that's what that little phrase, of the devil, I did a little search. I couldn't find, if you guys can help me with that, I could not find a believer ever talked about as being of the devil.

Well doesn't that speak to condition? Or I mean, position? Okay, well, okay, you could argue that right. Conditionally we are certainly not of the devil, that's true. What I found in scripture is we're warned constantly about being entrapped by the devil, don't be taken to the snares of the devil, but we're never called, a believer is never called of the devil. Right, but unbelievers positionally. are of the devil. Absolutely. But believers positionally are of Christ. Right. So that's what makes verse 8. You think, well, who is of the devil? Can I say a believer walking in his sin nature is of the devil?

I have a hard time saying that. The closest you'll find to that, and that's not talking about church age instance, but Jesus rebuked Peter saying, get thee behind me, Satan. He was referring to Peter as an agent of the devil because this was before the church age, before the time of the Holy Spirit. So it was a different deal. Yep, I agree.

What we're going to see is that he's going to refer to Cain later on down here. He's going to refer to Cain as being of the devil. What I found in going through this, the example he gave of Cain became more central in this chapter. I kept going back to the example of Cain. What did Cain do? It says he was of the devil. He was a murderer. He slew his brother. It kind of fit.

As I started going through, I said, okay, the example that John offers is Cain who wasn't a believer, and so I saw some linkage in there. It focused back on that verse 8 would be talking about, and it would go on the fact that he doesn't want a person who's practicing sin, and that's who he is, he's of the devil. And the devil is sin from the beginning. And so the Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy who works for the devil.

Okay, let's go on. Just one thought. There was an instance in Matthew where Jesus tells Peter, get behind me and save me. So, I don't know. I'm not so sure that this is not actually speaking of the source of a person's sin here, as opposed to being a... I mean, I could possibly see this being a believer here. The source of sin is of the devil. Rather than going back and forth between believer and non-believer, halfway through each sentence. I don't know. Because that Mm hmm. This being a source, I think it could fit with. I don't know. I'm interested in other things, but I don't know. OK. Just a thought.

Well, Bob, I think going back and forth in the sentences is John's way of comparing contracts. He's done that before. He's done that before in chapter 2. He talked about the Antichrist and the Antichrist among you. It's not that this is, you know, out of place. And he's going to, shortly here, he's going to talk about Cain. He's going to say that Cain was of the devil. So, I mean, you know.

Again, Peter wasn't in Christ at that moment though. No, it was not. And the Holy Spirit could only come and go at will. I mean, he could leave people like David behind in the dust if sin occurred. I mean, the whole context here is obviously the abiding and the doing truth. And I think practice is a poor translation, too. But the doing of whether you're doing truth or not doing truth.

And if we start I mean, in this, and I'm just trying to get jumping in here head first with you guys. So, by the way, excited to be here. Welcome. Both Greg and I getting in here a little late, but real excited to grab hold of where you guys are here. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's just a fellowship thing. Are you in fellowship or are you out of fellowship? Here's what happens when you're out. And I would agree with you.

In fact, I'm looking for that. But I just don't see that being supported. Like in the previous verse we talked about, I don't see the tense supporting it. And I guess I have a tough time saying that a believer is of the devil. Here's the cool thing about the tense thing, or a thought rather. Verse 6, so we backed up to that verse. You talked about it being perfect. So, let's look at verse 6 again real quick.

No one who abides in him sins. So, when we're abiding, we absolutely can't sin. Because we're of Christ. Christ is doing the living, so Christ's life is being lived and there can never be a sin identified with abiding. The flip side is, if you don't, you're not abiding, then your sin nature has never known him, has never seen him, will never honestly take hold of Christ, ever. Because it's the complete opposite. It's of the devil, actually.

I would agree with that. But is no one referring to that? Is that pronoun referring to our... See, I think everyone is a believer still, in verse 4. I think no one is a believer still. Well, I know I'm going by the kind of my context, you know, but that's that's the subject right there No one is the subject. No one who is the no one that was my question. Well in context, it's the no one is the Audience who's speaking to mm-hmm Bob well, I think if you turn to James to you get an idea that What was just said really maybe? with evil, i.e. the new nature.

Neither tempted he any man, but every man is tempted by whom? When he's drawn away by his own lusts. And then when lusts have conceded, bring forth sin. So the idea that the devil is part of the temptation and our flesh and lusts give in to that temptation. I agree with that. I have no problem with that. So why can't John be relating to this same issue about how Satan ultimately appeals to the old nature to allow the flesh to manifest? I agree with that 100%.

But is that verse telling us that, I guess? Well, it's not telling us that. What's that? Well, let's flip the question around. Could it not be the same? Because it would seem to fit with the flow of the entire book. I think either interpretation is possible. Well, there is only one.

So, we'll have to figure it out, I mean, but, right? We'll have to get to... Well, at the end, we rest on the positional truth of who we are in Christ, right? And that the abiding nature by the power of the Spirit allows us to live above all of this, right? And that's what we're called to.

I mean, anyway. Okay. Well, I guess, you know, I have to say we see it differently right at the moment. I'm not sure I can say much else. And I appreciate your comment. Let's go back to this for a second. Here's one that I found particularly challenging.

Verse 9. No one who is born of God practices sin, because his seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. So is 9 talking about a position or a condition? Position. And the question I had was, Does practice go along with our condition? It seems like the condition is true irrespective of what we do.

No one born of God practices sin. So, the believer does practice sin. Sometimes. Conditionally. But the Lord doesn't see our sin because in our position we're in Christ. So, if you're in Christ, you're not sinning because in position. Right. So I put this to be position. I'm not trying to drag on here.

But what's interesting is if you look at 1 John 1.10, it says we cannot say we have no sin.

1 John 1.10 says if we say we have no sin, we make him a liar. So once again, it's very challenging to look at this. So I would say 9 is position. But it's an interesting way to state position. Roger, is the word practicing, is that denoting habitually sinning?

I mean, just, this is where I'm going to live. This is the point of, you know, the best I have found for that word, I mean, I go by what we have in the helps that we have. If someone can find a better definition than I'm all for that, I'd be happy to see that. But looking at the typical kind of helps we have, that word is do, the root word is to do, doing or to do something, as in the present tense. So it's a doing, you're doing something, and in the present tense, which by implication means that that's a continual action. You have something you want to say? with the whole commitment thing and the habitual thing. Well, let's leave it out. Put the word doing it. Choose what word that is doing better. Would you prefer doing? Do works. Okay. Do sin. You would like to have it. No one who is born of God does sin. Okay. That's fine. I have no problem with that.

That's, in my mind, that's the whole of the translation. And, you know, maybe it also is because in our vernacular, the word practice is working at it. I don't see that. I apologize. I don't see that practice meaning I work at it. It just says that's what I'm doing.

So why are practice and do to us, why do they seem like two different words? But they do seem like two different words. And maybe it's because in our culture, the word practice Oh, I see. Like practice music or something like that. Well, it just means that whereas doing is an action that you do, but the word practice just means something different. It is an action, but it's different.

I was just thinking that how precious it is that we're crucified with Christ, that that identification with Christ Because all of those things do apply to who we are in Adam. And the way that the Lord dealt with that is in crucifixion. There is no such thing as, is there anything going to be fixed up here? So we can look at that old guy and say, yeah, he, all of those things are true. and he has taken me out of Adam and put me in Christ. So we're not stuck in Romans 7.

The danger is not so much in what's going on in our room here, but the choice of translators to use practices fits with their theology. And they use that word because it fits with their idea of if you see a believer continually doing something, they're not born a God. So they haven't made the commitment. So practices really works with the theology that we don't have here, but they use that word, they use that word in that translation to build up their dignity.

So I think that's why we need to be aware of that word being used because there are OK, that's good. That's good. I did find I looked at a few translations and some, you know, I was surprised the amplified use that. I kind of like a lot. A lot of times it will have they'll try to take into consideration. And they they had that as they had to actually practice as an alternate translation in some cases.

So, I mean. Anyway, that doesn't make it right, but I'm just saying that the new American Standard is not the only one. It wasn't like that was the only one you found using that terminology. Everybody else used something different. It was probably, you know.

They used it, what I like about New York City, they used it consistently. Wherever Pueos turned up and was present tense, they used practice. So I like that because the King James had commit sometimes, had do sometimes. It had a variety of words and you think, well, commit to me sounds like I'm going to commit right now. That sounds like law to me. I'm going to commit to do something. I didn't like commit. So I like the fact that they were consistent and they went through. And I hear what you're saying about the practice. All right.

Number C. By this the children of the God and the children of the devil are obvious. Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. So who are the children of God and the children of the devil referring to? And this is back again to the same question. Do we refer to a believer as the children of the devil?

And you could argue, it could be made that sin nature certainly has the capacity to be influenced by the devil and do all that. But do we, is that something that, I'm just trying to, you know, typically what I like to do when you study scripture, you compare scripture with scripture. And children of the devil, it's not, this is a contrast here.

Okay, that's cool. I'm not sure we have much. Roger, the possibility here is the contrast between the children of the devil, which clearly sounds like the unbeliever. I don't disagree with that. It sounds like the unbeliever. But in fact, the behavior of a believer could in fact be potentially aligned with that of the children of the devil.

Absolutely, absolutely. And don't think I'm... trying to make my case and defend the translators for practice, or I'm trying to not say that we're something contrary. I'm trying to accurately understand the scriptures from what I understand from the language. And we all are. And so I'm seeing this a little bit different. I don't think that means we stop having fellowship with one another. We see things differently.

First John is a very difficult one. People are all over the map on 1 John. You start looking at what they say, they're just all over the map. I would contend, like I have many times from where you're up there right now, is that people don't understand Paul before they get to John. And that's the reason they apologize to John.

You've got to be firmly engaged in Paulian theology before you come to John. And if you're not, then you're going to get lost here. Dr. Eccle, is that true also of the Gospel of John? The Gospel of John is a little bit different from the Synoptic Gospels. It's more church-directed. There are special things in John that are not in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. It's a different message.

And I think to some extent there may be some truth in that statement too. for a benefit, but it's not addressed to the church, right? Well, actually, what they call the Upper Room Discourse does give you, and Vern's going to cover this, I think, at some point here, does give you a peek into the church age and truths about that. In fact, actually, 1 John refers back to that Upper Room Discourse, 13 through 17. So that there are a lot of things in 13 through 17 that look forward to the church age and talk about truths that are applicable to the church age.

So that small part, And Jesus gave a caution saying, you may not understand any of this, but it shall come clear when the Holy Spirit comes. So actually we're running out of time here, but let's just look quickly at this example of Cain here. It starts off here that basically he states, first of all, this is a message which you've heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. And this is exactly what you talked about. This refers back to John 13 where it says, I give you a new quality commandment that you should love one another as I have loved you. So that's where it looks back to that.

And then he contrasts it with Cain. And this is what kind of, at least it helped me. So now he's going to contrast that with Cain. And I can't make Cain a believer. Cain is not a believer. So he's going to talk about Cain. He's going to talk about his source, right? Cain, not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brothers. So he makes a statement about that. for what reason did he slay his brother? Because his deeds were evil and his brothers were righteous.

So I wonder, and in fact I have some questions in here, is Cain an example, focusing back on those earlier verses, is that an example of what he's talking about there sometimes when what it seems like you could say it was an unbeliever? And I just offer that as a question. Exactly. Cain could be an exemplary of the source. In fact, remember, Cain was saved the same way we are by faith. Cain wasn't saved, right? By what I'm saying, he would have been saved by faith the same way we are saved. I mean, by grace you're saved through faith. In the Old Testament, that grace was still sufficient to be saved. Right, okay. I guess I'm... Abel was. Yeah, Abel was. The point is, it's where he's getting his...

Because when a believer is acting of the devil source, there's no way to differentiate them from unbelievers. I agree. And I think that's his point. It's the severity of our source when we're not in fellowship. It's like, this is how bad it gets, guys. I mean, look, you walk out of fellowship, you're going to look just like Cain did. Because your source is going to be...

I have a problem with that. It's just a thought. And I consider that too. It sure slaps you across the face when you think about it that way. It's like, man, I could appear no different than Cain who slew his brother. Well, we do every day. We do it every day.

People don't necessarily know if you're a believer, if you're if you're in the Adam nature. So I guess we probably should call it quits here. There's a few more pages to go here, but you can look at those. I guess one thing I would just... Okay, well let's pray. Dear Father, we thank you so much, Lord. We thank you for this day, Lord. We thank you for the blessings we have in our Savior, Father. We thank you that we can trust you in all things. In Christ's name, Amen.