Identification Truths Plus 2012

We, I believe, are still, we will finish, we will finish, uh, Grace lesson 19. The third lesson on grace, I believe, I think we got through question eight, is that correct? We are through eight, I believe was the way. So we are on question nine, and this will be a tag-teamer today. Hopefully, if we can get through the last couple questions, which I believe we can, very quickly, then Randy will start the next lesson. So, lesson 19, question nine. Is it possible to grasp grace in salvation and not grasp it in the Christian life? Absolutely. Yep. Any dissenting votes? You always have a smile. You have the Cheshire Cat smile all the time. Just happy to hear you, Curt. Absolutely.

Yeah, basically all of Galatians focuses on this. Paul warns of that in Galatians. If we look at Galatians 5.1-4, we looked at this before, it was for freedom that Christ set us free.

Therefore keep standing firm, and do not be subject again to the yoke of slavery. Behold, I, Paul, say to you that that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is under obligation to keep the whole law.

You have been severed from Christ. It actually means the relationship has been damaged or removed. Not removed, but you turn away from the Lord. You have been severed from Christ. You who are seeking to be justified by law, you have fallen from grace.

So remember, who is he addressing? Christians. Christians. And it's not the gross sinners, not all that. It's the people who want to mix a little bit of law with grace. So, a lot of times I think of this too, and I think a lot of people fall into this.

We understand salvation is by grace. Most people, you have been saved by grace. So, salvation, we know. You come to that point where you know you can't bridge that gulf between God and yourself and you realize that there has to be something. Jesus came, paid for your sins, died for you, all the salvation message. We understand that. That's all by grace.

But how many of us then go, okay, now we're kind of on our own. Now God has at least empowered us in our old man to be able to keep the law now. We're now able to be a Christian, a good Christian. Isn't that how we do that a lot? Or we feel a lot of times, I think that... Roman 7. Roman 7, exactly. But I think there's a point where you understand it's by grace, but suddenly you're on your own now.

But isn't that what 99% of all churches teach? I don't think they understand the grace message. You okay, Bill? We good? Okay. I think a lot of people, they don't teach or they, a lot of it's still trying to, let me step back. I think they don't understand the identification part or co-crucifixion. When you look at the number of programs out there and the different things, you know, again, the Purpose Driven Life, you know, all these different things, all the, you know, again, I think I went through J.I. Packard, Knowing God, there's a bunch of these programs out there. The Prayer of Jabez was popular. All these different things that are popular. They're always trying to help you, the sinner, get better. And they don't understand the basic understanding of identification. I don't think they understand that basic concept.

That's why I say I think the biggest problem we have is that people don't understand Romans 6. They don't understand that co-crucifixion, that our old man was positionally and judicially taken away. that God, we are now placed, remember how many times I said the in hymns? We went through that in hymns, how many times we've been placed into him? God now sees us in Christ. So, I think a lot of people just don't understand that, so they're always trying to help you, the old man, get better. Will that ever work? Never. God is done with you, why are you still trying to fix up the old man?

So, I think there's a lot of that issue based on the identification truths. And, you know, I'm a product of that. I mean, I've been a Brethren for 20 years, and we were in the Scriptures, but you just didn't get that identification. The funny thing is, a lot of identification truths came out of the Brethren.

And so, there's always a program, and I always wondered why, you know, if a program is so good, why does it kind of fade out? If that's the answer, why does that program fade out and we have to have another program? And then there's another program. If it's the answer, why are there always more programs? Okay, now Holly. I'm going to take issue with that. Oh good.

I'm going to say that I think that we don't realize that now, in Christian living, it's all the Holy Spirit. I don't think there's enough emphasis on listening for the Holy Spirit, letting the Holy Spirit direct your life so that you're walking in the Spirit, depending on the Spirit, so that you don't walk in the flesh and try to live by the law and all those things. I think you're right, but I think there's a first step. We've heard the first step a whole lot, but I think now it's like dropping off because There's not emphasis of Christ's Spirit in us for living, to listen to that, to let that guide us so that we don't go in our own direction.

And I agree. And actually, the end of our, but we're not going to get to it, which I think is going to be the next elective, is on the Holy Spirit. That will be our next elective. How can you separate, put the Holy Spirit in its own little thing? It's like grace. And the Holy Spirit should be together always, always, always in everything. Yeah, but this is progressive. You've got to understand. That's why I say you've got to understand it. I don't think it's progressive.

I think as soon as you believe that Christ died for your sins, you get the Holy Spirit. Yeah, and we do, and actually a lot of times we'll go, it's not only Holy Spirit, there are lots of things that happen to you. That's the Schaeffer's 33 or the 213 different things. Yeah, but the only way to get them is through the Holy Spirit. Well, the Holy Spirit's a component, but there are a lot of other things, like your inheritance. Right, but the only way to get that is through the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, the Holy Spirit, and I totally agree, it's the Holy Spirit that does this. and is the one who convicts and convinces and all that, yes. the identification's got to come first. You've got to understand that. Because if you don't, you're totally off base to begin with. And so that's what this class is, identification. We're trying to get you to that point where you understand that.

Now the second phase is grace, which is just understanding the operating system, which is, the component is the Holy Spirit. But we've got to show you what the system is. And part of that is the Holy Spirit, and we totally agree. Part of our... You've got to understand what grace is too, because you can't understand how the Holy Spirit operates in that system until you understand the system. So we're walking through it, you're getting ahead of us. I understand your frustration, because they both go together, because you have to have One of the things we'll go through in the Holy Spirit is how much you're trying to do it and how much it's the Holy Spirit's responsibility. Right. It's like in marriage. It is. And that's very true. It's like in marriage, in the Ephesians.

I would say it's tough to learn grace without the Holy Spirit. I would think... We will get in. ...an identification without the Holy Spirit. It was only through the Holy Spirit that we were saved in the first place. Exactly. Saved by grace. I mean, it's all so interwoven. That's the thing. It's interwoven. What we're trying to do in the Sunday School class is to systematically go through the different doctrines and draw out the relationships.

But you can't cover all of it at once because it's too much. And I'll flip it around to you. If you went to the Holy Spirit and explained that and tried to say how the Holy Spirit works in grace, and you don't understand what grace is, you can't understand how the Holy Spirit works. We don't have to understand how the Holy Spirit works. Yes you do, I think you do. The Holy Spirit is going to work whether or not we understand it or not. And we're going to be in grace whether we understand it or not.

But what we're going through is that Paul is trying to tell us that we have to be taught grace. You may have missed that one. We have to be taught grace. So that's what we're going through now is grace. Totally interwoven through that is the Holy Spirit. And we'll get to that. Like I said, we were trying to, but I don't think with our schedule we're going to do it. Our next elective will be that.

And once we get into that, you'll understand how the Holy Spirit is able to function because of identification, because of grace. Then you'll understand how the Holy Spirit will go into a lot of that. I was going to say, in Ephesians, when it tells me how to be a husband, if you look at the requirements of what a husband's responsibility is, I come to the realization that I cannot do that. Right, and the Holy Spirit is going to do it for you. I've got to rely upon the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is going to let you understand Ephesians. Right, and not only understand it, but also live it out. Exactly. We're getting there. We're getting there. I guess I am. I'm getting a little more patient because I'm not hearing Holy Spirit enough. Well, we will get there.

But like I said, I don't think you can understand how the Holy Spirit functions unless you understand how grace functions. Because the component of how we work in grace is the Holy Spirit. But I think it's a key thing that we have to understand what grace is first before we understand how the Holy Spirit operates in grace. The reason I made that earlier statement is I was raised in organized religion and had 16 years of intense indoctrination.

But I walked away from all of that and then when I was eventually saved, I made a point of going to a non-denominational Bible-teaching church, and I remember asking the pastor soon after I was saved, well, what do I do now? I was fused and getting myself cleaned up. He says, well, start memorizing. You've got to read the Bible and memorize verses. And I thought, oh man, this is just not it. You know, and I'll counter some of this stuff, Holly, too.

You know, there are people who overemphasize what the Holy Spirit, without knowing how it operates, ingrates. Yeah, the Holy Spirit. How the Holy Spirit. And wrongly assess how the Holy Spirit operates. So I think we logically go through this so it's the proper operation and function of the Holy Spirit. Because there are some that don't understand and misteach what the Holy Spirit does.

I was only going to make the comment that It's difficult to teach everything at once, because I was a chemistry teacher for 42 years. If I tried to hit the students with the whole ball of wax at the start, it wouldn't have worked, because it's too much at one time. So even though they're closely interwoven, you almost have to take one thing at a time in order to have some continuity. Otherwise, you're sort of going back and forth on it.

But I totally agree with you. Holy Spirit needs to be there in our mind as well. And like I said, I think it's just you'll understand how the Holy Spirit operates much a better way as we walk through this than to try and throw them. We talk about the Holy Spirit and it's one who convicts and convinces. And so we'll do that, but we'll get a lot more specific on the Holy Spirit as we move into that. But it'll make more sense how the Holy Spirit is able to operate because we know about grace. We know about identification. So we do it this way because you'll understand how it operates more. If you started with the Holy Spirit and emphasized that, What do you mean? Well, if you don't understand grace, how does this Holy Spirit work?

Is He just making the old man better? Because a lot of people misappropriate that and say that the old man now is now empowered to keep the law. The old man now is, the Holy Spirit is now indwelling in me, and now I, in my flesh, am able to. And if you don't understand that, that's why I say there's misappropriation.

If you don't understand the identification, you can go off track on what the Holy Spirit is. Also, the Holy Spirit's job is to point us to Christ, so while it's not wrong or bad to understand how the Holy Spirit works, I think some denominations put so much focus on the Holy Spirit when His job is to point you to Christ. I mean, yes, they're all in the Trinity, but they each have their function. Right. Exactly, and that's what I was saying. Some misappropriate what the Holy Spirit's function is.

You know, I don't mean to sound too harsh, but I really don't care what other places are doing. I don't care what other, the wrong way. I don't want to know. like what the wrong way is or misunderstanding. I just always want to know. Right. And that's why I don't get into a lot about what other churches are doing. I try not to do that. I respond to questions. But if you don't mind, I'm not pointing at other people because I've been there. So I don't point at other people other than point at myself and say how I was off and left field. So I try to get away from that.

But I want to say what I think our best way to walk you through to understand identification, grace, and the Holy Spirit. I think those are key issues. And I think we walk you through so you understand all of them. And as you walk through it, you can see how they all interweave. Alright, that was my capsule for the morning. Is that the only one or do I have to prepare for more? I don't know, I think I have. I appreciate all of it. It's good discussion. And never hold back with questions. Anybody. That's why we have this type of class, actually. Because if one person's asking, there's probably another two or three that maybe have the same question.

So, basically, in the verses we were talking about, he was warning about, in Galatians 5, going back to a legal system, where you mix a little bit of law with grace, and that's not appropriate. You can't mix the two. And Paul goes through, in Galatians, very detailed about law and grace. And what the consequence of that, you've fallen from grace. You've impacted your relationship with Christ because of that. Christ will be of no benefit to you.

All these different things. And that goes back to our last question about being how harsh that was. The person who wants to put you under the legal system, it's a harsh statement, but you want to stay away from those people as much as you can. So what do those snares today look like? You know, he was saying about circumcision. What are the snares today about putting you back under law?

What types of things? Probably tithing. Tithing? What else? Coming here on Sunday. Yeah. I mean, that it? Could be anything. Could be reading the Bible. I was going to go back. What did you say? Memorize. You have to memorize. You have to memorize. What?

You know, where does it say? You know, so there are a whole bunch of things. Feeling guilty about doing, you know, I miss the work day. God's going to spank me for that. You know? I mean, think of all these things that you think of, you know, with Helen, the woman she helped hurt herself, but it's, well, if I don't do that, God's going to not smile on me. God's going to feel a little bit less of me. You know, I think it's even for myself. I would say it's not that I want God to smile on me, but it's kind of like I want to show God how grateful I am, even though even that's impossible.

Like to kind of pay back, like, you know, Thank you God for doing that and what I'm going to do is be a good person. So you're making God a debtor, right? Yeah. You're making God a debtor. Yeah. Absolutely wrong. When you make God a debtor, You know, that we owe. I'll pay you back. I'll pay you back. Then you know, at that point when you do that, that's the old man. Because the old man is under the law of the flesh, the cause and effect. If I do this, I'll get this. That type of system. So that's what, like I said, when the motive comes out, when you look at the motive of why you're doing it, and I've fallen prey to this. I think I've told you a hundred times about the old building I met. that I helped build.

I never wanted public any recognition from that. But in my heart of hearts, I'm like, Lord, where's my plaque? No, I never wanted a plaque. I did get a plaque and I just absolutely embarrassed myself because I said I did not want that. I kind of shouted at the person because I didn't want to. I felt kind of bad about that. They were being very nice. But in my heart of hearts was, God, aren't you smiling on me a little better because I did this. You know, not any public recognition, but my recognition within my own heart, I realized that, you know, God, aren't you just a little happier because I did this? Totally the wrong motive.

Totally. It should be acting out, and that's why our understanding of identification, we've been placed into Him. This should be just like breathing. We do it because. It's because of who we are. Not because of a reward. So this is where you put in the Holy Spirit. I mean really, it's the Holy Spirit. That's it.

It should be, we shouldn't do that, is a law. We shouldn't do it for reward? It's a principle, exactly. It's not a law. Yeah, but it's saying we shouldn't do that. Thou shalt not try and please God. It's a principle. It's not saying thou shalt not. It's a principle. It's an operating principle. We shouldn't be doing these things. It's an operating principle.

Just like grace is an operating system, And we're going to get into that a lot more about how we operate now under grace. In fact, the last question, we'll get to that briefly. One more. You know, I know this is outside of what we're discussing. Well, then we can't discuss it. When you mentioned Galatians 5-1, I looked at it, and I also looked at, and this has kind of puzzled me a bit through the years.

Galatians 5.2 says, Behold I, Paul, say unto you that if ye be circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing. Now, did I do my sons a disservice when they were born and on the eighth day I had them circumcised? No. That wasn't under the law. No. I don't think, if you're doing it, you know. No, I'm not Jewish. You're not. I'm not Jewish. We're not, you know. No. No, that's not. You're not doing it as part of the law. No. Right. So that's a whole different issue. Okay. It's not covered.

You asked what traps there were in it. A lot of them come back to pride. I like to feel good about it. I like my neighbors to think I'm a Good question. I don't have as many dandelions in my lawn as anybody else. You already said the operative word in the middle of that.

I. Putting the focus on you, it immediately, at least in my operating, is when I start saying about I. Who's the focus?

You. The focus should be on Christ. You know, to do anything, you just do it from the heart and not because of appeasement. Right. See, mine, I go back to this a lot, is you just do it because that's who you are in Christ. You don't even think about whether it's this or that or this or that. It's just because of who you are. I just go back to Christ. Christ didn't wake up every day and get a laundry list on the lentils, as I said last week, that thou shalt do these five things to do the Father's will today.

He did it because it was who He was. Yeah, He is. And we're placed into Him. So we do this, and that's where, again, I go back, it all fits. If we do it just because of who we are, do we have rest? Absolutely. Do we have peace? Absolutely. Because it's just who we are. It makes you feel good. That's a reward. Sometimes it does. That's not why we do it. But if the Lord blesses you, great. There are times where it's going to be challenging. That's right. Could you say there's always peace in it, though? To me. That's why I go back to James. Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials. Consider it all joy. What?

Well, if you know the sovereignty of God, God's in control of all the circumstances and all these things, if you also know that we can never be separated from His love, So whatever trials you're going through, Paul speaks of the child training, the chastening, or child training. The child training, these trials, are meant to what? Beat the snot out of you? Do you think God was mad and took a stick and beat you up because you were not... Set my oven on fire? You set your oven on fire, you burned your complex down.

No. And it's all done out of love. And so when you go through a trial, if you know that's a trial given to you by God in love, to what? Draw you to Him and to conform you. Can I consider that all joy? Absolutely. You can go through trials now with the peace, the rest, because if you know the trial is given by God in love, It's not God with a big stick at you. But at times it certainly doesn't feel that way. It doesn't, but you can go through it.

I go through the peaks and the valleys before this. I'm all state and sports, and then this, my parents get divorced, or this or that, and it was either one extreme or the other. I'm a lot more on the level now because when I go through a trial, I understand it's from God. When I get a blessing, I know it's from God. It's the same God, same love, same person acting on me.

And it's for the same purpose. It's for your conformity to His image. It's being used, it's not useless. Yeah. It's like Paul and the thorn. He prayed three times, but you know. He was happy at the end. He had it. And it was in my weakness, in my weakness, and he goes through all that.

So, like I said, I think you can go through these trials now, understanding that if you're in control, I mean, if he's in control, if he's in control of our circumstances, is what I wanted to say, then it's very easy to go through it. You can have that understanding. God is in control. And if he's taking it through, I mean, if your apartment burned down, would God, oops, missed that.

He would do it for a purpose. You know, and also too, just within that, it was an opportunity for me and I'm not very surprisingly vocal about my new faith, but it was a like some of my neighbors came by and said, somebody's looking out for you. And what a great chance for me to say like, yeah, I know. And just kind of even for the neighbors to realize that I wasn't going to go like, woohoo for me, my mom. See, I mean, that's it. I didn't want to say it because I didn't know. But I mean, it's similar, you know, my little... Yeah. I mean, they ask, you know, it's okay. And they know something different about you.

And that's what I think God uses. In that circumstance, He brought maybe one person out of that. He did all that to bring you in contact with one person. And I always say, when something like that happens, I'm looking this way, but God's looking both ways. To work on you and to work on somebody else. I always just look, God's in control. There's a reason and a purpose for it. And if it's in love, He's drawing me to himself.

But you know, I have to tell you, this is so funny, because I had a very bad lung disease, which I still have, but I got better. I wanted to always go to Israel, and Bruce said, I'll do whatever you want, and I said, okay, so we did go, and he was a Catholic. And it made him change and became a Christian that whole trip. So, isn't that wonderful that I have that?

Well, he uses all sorts of circumstances. Yeah. And that's why I say when you look at it, we look at it from a very myopic point of view a lot of times. Spiritual myopia. And like I said, if you understand that God's in control of all these circumstances, that he's doing it for his purposes. And what are his purposes? To draw you to him, to conform you to him. So in ups and downs, you understand he's still in control.

My ism is, God never says oops. Oops, missed that. Never. So if you understand that principle, We get surprised, but he doesn't. That's what I'm saying, we don't. But in the surprise, you understand he's still in control. I mean, like I said, I freak my mother-in-law out.

Oh, my accident. You know, you could have lost your hand. Yeah? Would that have been any different? Would I have thought the Lord missed that? He was in control that he only got me the 82 stitches. But if I would have lost my hand, Well, I said it doesn't matter. It would have been the same. Had I been either way, it doesn't matter. He's in control and he's using it for his purposes. It doesn't matter.

And when you put it in that perspective, no matter what happens, that gives you the peace that surpasses all understanding. That you can go through anything him what? For you to be dependent upon him and for you to draw closer in that relationship to him. And when you do, you get conformed to his image through the Holy Spirit. Thank you.

Okay. All right. I'm so sorry. We'll get to the last few questions. I think I can blow through them real fast. You may, Randy, you might at least get to the intro of yours. So, what about these verses that say, If you will obey, then I will bless you. How does that square with grace?

That's Old Testament. That's under law. No, we have commandments. There are commandments in the New Testament. If you love me, keep my commandments. There are several of them. Husbands, love your wife as Christ loved the church. Is it kind of like, if you will obey me, meaning that, when, or you do obey me, you want to obey me, and then I'll continue to bless you with your blessing being more conformed to Christ's image would be the blessing? So there's a cause and effect? If you do this?

No, it's not like if. It's kind of like when. You know. Okay. Other thoughts? Why is your answer to that? I wanted yours first. Well, it's an order. You shouldn't... I thought that... Well, in a way it is. Husbands love your wife. Wives be subject to... Wives be subject to your husbands. If in fact it's a principle.

He's stating here, we've been blessed with all spiritual blessings in advance, and he's just saying if you want to fall out of grace, you may operate on a different manner. Fall out of the grace system, I like that, also that you lose the intimacy, as we don't operate under these, you know, husbands, love your wife to Christ, love your wife, be submissive, be under the teaching of your husband. So, if you don't do that, What happens? You're out of rest. What I'm saying is basically, you lose that fellowship. The first job and one ninth.

Confessing, that's not who I am, that's not what I'm doing. You're confessing, you're agreeing with God, you're not doing... As you say who I am, I'm not acting in the way you've told me I am. So it's basically a system of principles, not like the Old Testament of commands. Do this and get this. Do this, avoid this. Blessings and curses and this quid pro quo. If you do this, I get this.

Under grace, it's now principles. These commandments are logical imperatives, what they call them. It means if you do this, wives be subject or under the teaching of your husband, you will have a wonderful wife, a wonderful relationship, and you will glorify God. The intimacy that you have will be brought closer because you're doing who you are in Christ through the Holy Spirit.

I do want to keep saying that. And also Vern said obey is to listen and put yourself under. So obeying necessarily isn't the doing. If I do this, it's like I'm just always going to be listening. and putting myself under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Yeah, it's the principle, and that's how we enact these, is through the Spirit, yes. But it's the principle, it's not a commandment, it's a principle.

Yeah, how it will be. And so, one of the things I want to... But in your heart you want to, you want to do things that Well, you just do it naturally. You please God because you love Him and it makes you give Him the glory. Naturally is in Christ, not your natural man, not in Adam. Right. Let me see if I'm going to have enough of these.

You didn't punch a hole in it. No, I know. I'm sorry. I forgot about that part of it. I need one. Actually, I can go on. I have one on the computer. You know what? I should have done this. I should have handed it out after. I was going to say, this is how we get through this.

How we obey, how we do these. Through the Holy Spirit enacting it. Again, it is through the Holy Spirit doing this. But where does it start? If you look at this circle, it starts with God's grace, His love for us. That's where it all begins. And so if you look, I'll read these. 1 John 4, 7 through 9. Beloved, let us love one another. For what?

Love is from God. And everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. And the one who does not love does not know God. For God is love. By this, the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent his only begotten Son into the world so we might live through him.

So that's where it starts. God is love. Now, what happens because of that love? We move on. The result of God's grace, or His love, is we respond. Because His love is poured out on us, what happens? 1 John 4, 19. We love because what? He first loved us. God is love. We love. Why? Because He first loved us. So, if God starts His love, we move, we love Him because He first loved us.

Well, what does that result in? John 14, 21. He who has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me, and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will disclose myself to him. So, we respond to these commandments, these logical imperatives, these principles, because He loved us. We love Him. If we do that, these principles are not a burden. The Holy Spirit working through us and enables us to do this. But did He love us first, even though our world is disastrous? Did He love all those people first, even though they should be left and right? Did he die just for the good people? And who are the good people? Name one. We're going to get very specifically into that. Romans 3 and up.

So he died for the whole world, even though, for instance, Muslims have a different God. Did he die for their sins? Well, it's the same God, huh? Did he die for their sins? Well, I guess. Huh? Come on. Come on. You can do it. You can say it. I guess. I guess. You guess or you know? Well, yeah, he does. He did. He did. He died for every past, present and future sin. Every sin. Muslims, Hitler, name the mass murderers, you know, John Holmes and all these people. Did he die for their sins? Absolutely. Every one of them.

And if we paint the picture that we're so much better than whoever, so we're ready to sin, you know, is that what we do? We're a little better than, you know, our sins weren't quite as bad as that guy. That's interesting. You know, that kind of separates the sin from people. It's nice to think of it that way when you think of not like, when you think of everybody, he didn't take care of like certain types of sin, like Hitler sin, or Muslim sin, or all my sin. He took care of sin outside of people.

I mean, you know, wow. The blood was for all sins. Yeah. All sins. Just sins. The whole principle of sins. The payment of sins. Sins, plural, is through the blood. The death or the principle, the whole idea of sin. The sin nature. Yeah. Because if he just paid for the sins, again we go through this, we should, if he just paid for the sins, is that enough? No. Why? Because we have to die. Huh? We have to die. Why? Because it's the principle, it's not I, but in him. But why do we have to die? We have to be separated. If only the blood paid for all those sins. Sins, plural. Every sin. Past, present, future. Of every person.

That's what the blood covered. Is that good enough? No. Because what happens the next day? I'm still sinning. That's the principle of edification. We have to get in place. In Romans 6, we have to be separated from that old nature. Otherwise, we're just sinners. Now, can we step into eternity as sinners? No. No, you can't. God can't be in the presence of the sinner. So, we have to be separated from that.

That is the Romans 6 principle. Okay, but God loves, as I'm screaming at the TV, God loves that person? He does. Yeah, you as a human don't, but he does. I don't, no. I should? See, yeah, you should. You don't have to love what that person does, but you love their soul.

And it's not a feeling of love, right? It's just a, this is the world, not the world. God created that person. We're back to a nature as opposed to the feeling. Exactly. In the flesh, we live in the feeling so much, that the feeling of love, or the feeling of hate, or the feeling of pride and accomplishment, and that drives us so much, because that's what the world looks at, and that's what the world feeds on, and we're in this world, but not of the world, and it's awfully hard to to keep reminding yourself that you have an identification in Christ that gets you out of that. We've got to be pulled out of that. Because otherwise, you know, the thing is what you look at is fairness.

You know, those are nasty, nasty people. God, smack them. But I'm pretty good. I'm not as bad as they are. Comparatively speaking. You know, and God looks at it, and sin. I look in the mirror, and by the grace of God, I'm not an Adolf Hitler. But we're the same as far as sin. We're both sinners. And so you have to get out of that fairness doctrine.

God looked and paid by the blood, paid for all sins, all times, all people, prosperous in the future. The only question remains at this point is, who is Christ? That's the only question that's left right now by every human being on this planet. That's the only question that's left. The sins have been paid for. Now, if you believe and you are co-crucified, you are separated from him, from your old nature, judicially separated, positionally separated. and now placed into him, into Christ. So that's the only question that remains right now to every human being on the planet. Whether they're Gaddafi or, you know, Ahmadinejad or whoever.

You will eventually get into the relationship of who is Christ because I have some people who cannot connect Christ There's only one question that remains on this planet, is who is Christ? And whether you believe he's the son of God who died, buried, resurrected, that's the only question that every human being has. Whether you're going to remain, when you die, in your Adamic nature, and with that, if you die, then what? You're separated from God.

The only question that remains is who is Christ. That's where we get into all these fairness and who and that. Remember the blood paid for everybody's sin. Past, present, future. He died so he could take care of the sin nature. So the blood and the body blood paid for all sins all time, the crucifixion was taking us out of Adam and putting us into him.

Key thing. And it's not like Hitler and everybody else was like a surprise to God. That's part of God's plan and God's using that for whatever God's using that for. Exactly. You know, political, whether we have an election coming up and who he chooses is who he chooses. Right, he already knows who won. He knows who won. You know, I have my thoughts and vote and that, but if he answers a different way, am I to go, God, you missed it.

Don't you know how that guy is? Don't you? Don't you? Oh, wait a minute. But you say to yourself, how could he, he died to this miserable SOB. You know, you know what? I say that about myself. He died. I look in the mirror and that's all I have to look at. He died for me. What a despicable character I was. I just have to look in the mirror. I don't look at anybody else. I look in the mirror and he saved me.

Nobody comes to the table with anything to offer God. That's where we looked at those verses in Romans. We come to the table with what? Death. Dead. That's our offering. We come for nothing else but a sinful, dead, nasty sinner. That's our bargaining chip. Wow. I mean, that's what I say, when you get to understand what saved by grace means, we came to the table with death, sin, nasty, and all that, and God, by His grace, saved us. And now we operate in this system of grace. Incredible. Incredible. Just for the, like, for the tape. Okay, not a mugging for the tape.

No, no, God wouldn't... He didn't, like, have Hitler do what he did. It wasn't his plan to make him do that, obviously. Did he allow him to do that? He allowed him, yeah. Right, and that's what I say, you know, when people say, Satan's attacking me. What is your response? No kidding? What is your response when somebody says, you know, man, Satan is just attacking me. Turn to Christ. If he is, God's letting him do it. Exactly. Oh my gosh. It is. But isn't it to teach you? Can you be separated from his love?

No. No. No. So if he, and let's put it this way, I always tell people too, if Satan's attacking you, It's a special day, because Satan is not omnipresent. So, if it's your day to have Satan attack you, you're pretty high up on the list here, because he's not omnipresent. So, his minions and others, you know, fallen angels and all that. But, like I said, if it's Satan, you've got a special day, you know, because God has allowed Satan to work on you.

You know, like Job, to sift him. The whole book of Job is about patience. It's about God eventually saying, Where were you when I created the world and the foundations of the earth? And Job coming around to realizing, okay God, you are sovereign, you are in charge. It's not all about this justice system and equal opportunity and all the other... I go back to Job a lot because of that. If you think you're so special and have a great plan, Start looking at Job, and the response is by God. So where were you when God created all this? Where were you and what were your thoughts about this? He puts it in perspective. God, I am so thankful as the one in charge, not me.

Because otherwise, would we have come up with salvation through grace? Would we have done any of this? No. Why does God reward us? Why does God reward us? I think in a lot of ways, blessings and trials both are to draw us to Him. The purpose is to draw us, to conform us. And in blessings and in trials, it's both the same to me. Does His purpose ever change? It's what? To glorify Him and to conform us to His image. And so in blessings and in trials, it's both the same. Those are the purposes, in blessings and in trials. Well... You finished. I did. Randy, you were going to talk today? Yeah. Yeah, you probably can't go on how far we get. Is that a rule? We will start with Randy next week.

It's awfully tough to get through these lessons, just because there is a lot of information and a lot of new stuff, and to teach grace and what it means. We're just beginning to start on grace right now, really, just kind of the system. Once we get into principles and how we operate under grace, There'll be a lot more things. We'll answer those about laws. We're walking you up through how we get into, we operate under grace and principles.

That's what you said in March. Yes. Any other questions before we close? when we cast our vote that we need to ask the Lord are we casting our vote while we abide? Are we walking by the Spirit when we cast our vote? Because if you cast your vote and you're not walking in the Spirit, the problem is that you're not walking in the Spirit, not that you vote for whoever you vote for. That abiding is the fundamental principle that we need to Whether we abide or not or whatever, the election is going to come out the way you want it.

Romans 12 or 13. On a personal level, we're called to be abiding in that point. It's not about who wins. God's sovereign there, but we need to, at that moment, be made by millions. We should be doing that in everything, not just for voting. But yes, Romans 13. He's the one who sets up the government. Did you have a question? All right, let's close. Father, we thank you again just for who you are. Father, we just thank you that you're in charge, that you're sovereignly in control of all these things.

And Father, we rest in the fact that you love us with an infinite love. And Father, we just arrived at peace that surpasses all understanding, knowing that we rest in your love, no matter what the circumstances are, whether in trials or blessings. Father, You are drawing us to Your Son, and Father, to be conformed into His image so we can for an eternity glorify You. Father, we just thank You again that we do have the Holy Spirit who convinces and convicts us, and Father, that we have that indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Father, we thank You for that. We thank You for all Your plans. We thank You that You haven't left us alone. You've given us the Spirit and You've given us Your Word. And Father, we just, by faith, believe what you've said. And we thank you again for this time. We just give you thanks, in Jesus' name. Amen.