The Gospel of John - Ascension and Seating

One of the things that's interesting is you look at the four Gospels. There are, of course, things that connect between them, and there are also some things that are quite different in the way things are presented and recorded. You have Matthew and Luke are the ones that talk about Jesus' birth. And what they have to reveal is incredible, but quite different. It's Matthew that talks about Joseph, and he talks about the Magi. It's Luke who talks about Mary's side of things and brings up the shepherds. So you have different sets of circumstances among the various ones recorded.

Now here we have Christ's ascension and seeding, and Matthew and John don't have direct accounts of Christ's ascension and seeding, although shortly we'll examine some prophetic quotes in the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament. The Gospel of Mark has a very succinct summary of Christ's ascension and seeding. Just one verse. So Mark 16, 19, So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. That's it. So there's the ascension and seeding, all in one verse. And then you have other accounts And Luke is the one who provides them, both in the Gospel of Luke and in Acts regarding Christ's ascension. So they had Luke 24, 44, Luke 53.

And so he said, Now he said to them, These are my words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled. And they opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and he said to them, Thus it is written that Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in his name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

And you are witnesses of these things, and behold, I am sending forth the promise of my Father upon you, that you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high. And he led them out as far as Bethany, and he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven. And they, after worshiping him, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising God.

So, what we see here, the fulfillment of what we call the Old Testament prophecies, given as the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms in Luke 24-44, was also brought up when Jesus spoke to the two disciples on the road to Danaeus, according to the New Testament. Let's talk about some things in this passage we just read here in Luke. Here is Luke, who says in verse 50 that Christ has led them out as far as Bethany. And then here's Dr. Luke, the same guy, writing in the book of Acts, chapter 1, that says Jesus ascended from the nine walls.

Now, which one is correct? It depends on en route to and how you read it. Okay, so where's Bethlehem? further east, just on the backside of Mount Avalos, right? So what that says is they're not incompatible passages. One talks about Mount Avalos. The other talks about Bethany. And it's simply a matter that Bethany's right on the backside of Mount Avalos. So there's a resolution of what appears to be a conflict.

And then, let's see, there was one other point I wanted to take a look at. Oh, he opened their minds to understand. Let's look at that, verse 45, and then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and he said to them, thus it is written, that the Christ, that's the Messiah, would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed in the same to all the nations beginning from Jerusalem. Hadn't he been telling them, actually for years, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead on the third day.

Multiple times for years. Why didn't they get it? Why were they so stunned when he was actually crucified and rose again on the third day? Because they were foolish of hope. Yes, that's true. Resurrection had never happened before. Okay, not a resurrection of this kind anyway, right? It was hard for them to... Grass. Okay. Resurrection had not happened in this way before, and so that's one thing.

Why else would they... because even the crucifixion, that just blew their circuits. They just were mind-blown and devastated that this crucifixion was taking place after Jesus had been telling them repeatedly that he would die. He even told them, you know, the way in which he would die. He'd been telling them, I'm going to die, I'm going to be buried, I'm going to rise again on the third day. He'd been telling them that for years. Why didn't they understand it? Yeah, yeah. Think about this.

One was, what was all their teaching about the Messiah? The teaching was primarily focused on, here's this reigning Messiah, right, who establishes the kingdom for Israel. So that was the primary focus. There was a secondary and less discussed teaching that there was another Messiah who would die a sufferer. And so that was kind of background, and they didn't get it. And so a part of the answer is yes, the teaching of the two Messiahs, with Israel mostly focused on the Messiah that would come and reign. And by the way, why would the Jews be focused? on the Messiah who comes to reign. They'd be triumphing over the Gentiles. Yes, and right now, what was the Gentile problem that was right in front of them?

The Romans, right? So, get the Romans out of here. We hate those pig eaters, right? So, that having focused on, we need a Messiah. I don't know about the suffering thing, but we need a Messiah to come here and boot out these Romans, because this is miserable. This is miserable. So they believed in minus R, not as in unrighteousness, but as in, get the Romans out! Get the Romans out.

So, but that still asks the question, why didn't they understand? And there are some reasons that we can point to, that it hadn't been a resurrection, that they had a Messiah focus that was centered on. centered on the Messiah who would come and reign and boot out the Romans, and the Jews would be on top of the world, so to speak. So they were focused there.

But why didn't they understand? What was the principal reason they didn't understand? They haven't the Holy Spirit, and so what's very interesting is Christ, it says here, He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures. And prior to that, earlier, Luke said they didn't understand, they didn't get it, they didn't comprehend. He actually had one verse where it says three ways that they didn't get it. And that was not too many chapters before this, when He opened their minds and they go, ding, the lights finally come on.

And yet he opened the mind of Caiaphas to say the thing that he did say, and yet his mind remained closed to salvation. Yes, and what's very interesting is Caiaphas said the things that he said, and actually did the things that he did, that brought about what Jesus actually intended. However, in this case it's a matter of the disciples understanding what Jesus had been telling them, which Caiaphas never did. Caiaphas never understood what he was doing to have Christ killed.

He just thought it was a good plan. And so it is opening the minds, Christ specifically opened their minds prior to the giving of the Holy Spirit. So it's very interesting when you read these post-resurrection accounts that That's similar to what happened on the road to Emmaus.

He's talking with all the scriptures, and then all of a sudden, ding, oh, this is Jesus we're talking to, right? This is the very one. And here, he finally gets them to understand what he, in fact, had been telling them for years, several years. Yes. Wasn't it also the very fact that He, being the ultimate creator of all things, through the Father's direction, was able to make this effective without telling the Holy Spirit, here, quick pinch hit. Yeah.

Now, let's ask the question, why did Jesus wait this long to open their minds? Why did He, I mean, you can tell them, why did He wait this long to open their minds? Well, as for the Lord, his way is perfect, so he was in character. Now they had to go spread the gospel to the Gentiles.

They actually had to really understand what happened. Yeah. Previously, we might have thought, well, it would be nice if they knew what was going on, right? And he'd been telling them and telling them and telling them. But at this point, He needed them to have understanding of what had taken place, and have them begin to understand what had just taken place. This wasn't some crazy disaster.

The other thing is, once the Holy Spirit had been given all those prior statements that are recorded in all four Gospels, all those prior statements would be brought to mind with understanding, once they'd been given the Holy Spirit. to some like a ton of bricks. Yes. Okay, now, so let's look at Luke 24, 25-27.

And he said to them, O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken, was it not necessary for the Christ, the Messiah, to suffer these things and to enter into His glory? And beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, he explained to them the things concerning themselves in all the Scriptures. So this was recorded earlier in The Road to Advance. So what's very interesting is a lot of these things have been explained previously to them. And now he has to explain to them again so that they begin to understand. Yes?

So he intentionally closed their minds so they wouldn't grasp But what is interesting is that it doesn't say that he closed their minds. It's just simply said that they didn't get it. They didn't understand. And in our human thinking, when we say, well, why didn't he open their minds earlier, which is why I asked the question, a lot of times we would say, well, if it was me, I would have done it this way. I mean, would you have said, hey, what we really need is to have the Son of God to come down and be born as a man and to die on the cross for you and for me. Would we have come up with that? Yes. But wasn't it still a partial opening of their mind? Because there was a lot of things. Yes, there was a lot that they hadn't yet to understand. They didn't have the Holy Spirit.

So if they had an understanding of this, it didn't mean that they understood everything else. So they understood that he was the first Messiah and he had to suffer. and forgiveness of sin, in a big sense. Right. And so, part of what he was telling them here, and they were going, ding, lights come on, is this suffering Messiah, and the Messiah who will come and reign, everyone and the saints, right?

Since they didn't get the full dose, they didn't feel impelled immediately to just jump in there and try it. And he told them here, and he tells them in Acts chapter 1 to wait. Now you guys understand some things, right? But I still want you to wait until the Holy Spirit has come upon you. Now let's ask this question. When the Holy Spirit came upon them, did they begin immediately to understand everything?

No. No. One of the things we've looked at before is over the 30 year There was a constant ah-ha. It was about a decade later that Peter introduced the Gospel to the house of Cornelius, to the Gentiles, for the first time. So imagine going about for a decade. It would be like the year 2023, and we go, No! You mean this is supposed to go to the Gentiles too?

Oh, so there was this aha moment, and then here's the Apostle Paul, in the middle of the book of Acts, about three quarters or two thirds of the way through, writing the book of Romans, where he says you've been identified with Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection, but this ascension and seeding we're talking about, they didn't get it yet.

Right? Yeah. And didn't Peter say something about The teachings of Paul, which are hard to understand, was a comment, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, right? Right, 2 Peter, the end of 2 Peter, right? Now here's Paul, his teachings are, whoo, you know? So here's Peter, you know, and here you walk with the Lord, but what Paul's writing is good, it's scripture, yeah, it's true, but boy, is it below my surface, right?

So what you have is the Apostles here having the lights turned on just for the start, right? Just for the little thing, you know, the Messiah is to die and be buried and rise again on the third day. And you guys have the light shine on just that little part. And for over the next several decades, you're going to have more and more light shine. But don't go running off just because you understand this. Wait around here for the Holy Spirit to begin. Yes. Did you call that progressive revelation? Yeah, progressive revelation. That's something in the Bible survey class we'll be talking about.

A very important principle, that things are revealed progressively over the span of roughly 1,500 years that the Bible was written, and even within shorter spans, for example, the book of Acts. You start at the beginning and say, what did Peter understand on the day of Pentecost? He understood enough to present the gospel and to present the situation as it was, that there was still a great deal more for him to come to understand. So, that's a principle of progressive revelation, and it's important to remember that.

We were baptized into Christ. We in the church were baptized into Christ. We don't know that until we get to Galatians. and Romans. So now, we would baptize into Christ, but we don't find out until 1 Corinthians chapter 10 that the Jews were baptized into Moses. It's an insight that was never previously revealed. So we say, here are the Jews, they're baptized into Moses and Moses' law, and we are baptized into Christ.

But not Christ's law. We're baptized into Christ, and what happens? We die to the law. Is it a baptism in each case? Yeah. Is it a radically different outcome? Oh, yes. Radically different outcome. And yet we don't understand that. Oh, we've got two baptisms until we get to the New Testament epistles. baptism of Israel into Moses, and Moses was the lawgiver, right? So Israel is immersed in the law, and we are immersed in order to be separated from the law, including Christ. All right, now, so let's take a look at the top of page two.

All four Gospels in the Book of Acts repeatedly bring up fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies regarding Christ's first coming. Jesus opening their minds to understand the scriptures pointed out that the Old Testament scriptures had already prophesied that Jesus would suffer death and rise on the third day.

He also told them that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed by the disciples, who he termed as apostles, as witnesses, beginning from Jerusalem, then unto all the nations, implying Gentiles. And by the way, did they understand that all the nations thing yet? No. It would be 10 years later, before they would understand that all the nations mean, oh, you're going to take this to the Gentiles, not just to the Jews who were dispersed throughout the nations. He then told the Holy Spirit the promise of the Father would come upon this, but that they should wait in Jerusalem until then.

So here's Acts 1, 1-12, which gives Luke's other and more expanded account of this same ascension and the things leading up to it. So, here is Acts 1-12, the first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach until the day when he was taken up to heaven, after he had, by the Holy Spirit, given the orders to the apostles whom he had chosen. To these he also presented himself alive after his suffering, but by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days, and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God. Gathering them together, he commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, which, he said, you heard of from me, for John baptized with water, that you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. So when they had come together, they were asking and saying, Lord, is it at this time you are restoring the kingdom to Israel? Okay, now, think about this.

If you're the disciples, they've been really distressed and confused for a long time, okay? And all the time they thought, well, Jesus is the Christ, right? So what does that mean? He's going to come, you know, and he's the Messiah, so he's going to come and boot out the Romans, and we're going to get everything all fixed, right?

And so, they're saying, OK, we've had a really confusing time with you getting crucified and buried, and then there's a resurrection thing. I mean, it's really confusing to us. And what we were thinking was going on just I can hardly speak of it. But now, now that you're back, and you're walking around and talking to us and everything, is now the time when you're going to restore the Kingdom of Israel?

Are you going to reign right now as the Messiah? Is this all going to go like we were thinking? See, that's the question they're asking. So what kind of answer does he give? Oh yeah, don't worry, it's going to be okay. We're going to pull this off now. Is that what he's going to talk about?

No. So right now are you going to restore the Kingdom of Israel? This also raises another question. Is the Church the Kingdom? So what they're looking Israel, Jesus, if the Church was the kingdom, could have said that right here. He didn't. So a good deal of Christendom refers to the Church as the kingdom, and Christ as the Church's kingdom, and all that. The reality is, right here would be the opportunity for Christ to correct our understanding that the Church was the kingdom and Israel was set aside.

And so he says to them, ìItís not for you to know the times or epochs which the Father has fixed by his own authority, but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, the promise of the Father, referred to in the name of Luke.î When the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and then the passage in Luke that we read, from Jerusalem to all the nations, this one gives the detail in between Jerusalem to all Judea and Samaria and even to the remotest part of the earth.

After he said these things, he was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while he was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside him. They also said, Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven. Then they return to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath-based journey away.

Okay, we've got some issues that we need to address. One is, footnote two here, the Gospels and Acts say that forgiveness of sins comes by repentance in some places, and he gives several references, and believing in others. So are those in conflict? Or do we do, like some churches have done, say you've got to both repent and believe? How do we resolve all that? Okay, let's think about this. Repent is to change your mind. What do many Christians think repentance is? Confessing. They think repentance is feeling really bad. Right? The Christian blues. feeling really bad for yourself.

But the Greek word means change your mind, metapnoeum, that's it. It's one word, metapnoeum, change the mind. It's to change your mind. So if we put this together, it turns to this, change your mind from unbelief to belief. So it's and believe, you have to change the mind from unbelief to belief.

So they're not in conflict, it's different ways of stating the same thing. Yes? So, you're saying that sinning is unbelieving? Unbelief is the core problem, right? And sin comes from that place of unbelief. Even now, as a believer, is it possible for me to sin? It is possible for me to sin, and that happens when I do what? When I'm not walking in belief. When I'm not walking in belief, I can still sin.

So, but for the person who is an unbeliever as a position, OK, for the person who is an unbeliever as a position, what this is talking about when we're talking about presenting the Gospel, we need to change the mind from a state of unbelief to a state of belief. Something else, repentance here is often, not always, but often used with Jews.

And can you think, why would the Jews be told to repent particularly? The message to believe comes more often to Gentiles. But why would the Jews particularly be told to repent? Because they believed that they were genetically saved through Abraham? Yeah, think about what the Jewish problem was.

To hear Jesus had come and ministered on them, and that in great masses, the Jews rejected what Jesus had presented. So they were in a position of having been presented truth, and what did they do with it? They pushed it away. They refused it. They intended to stay in a state of unbelief.

So here's Peter, comes to these Jews who had already, many of them, made the decision, I'm rejecting Jesus. They may even have been among those who were shouting, crucify him. And so here's Peter, he comes and says, Jesus whom you crucified, you guys need to repent, you need to change your mind from unbelief to belief. So the Jews were often presented with repent because of that, because they had rejected. Yes? in regards to maintaining the gene universe. Repentance. Yes. Repentance. It's a change of mind. So, and as Stan pointed out, the Jews were thinking, you know, hey, I'm a son of Abraham. Here's the genealogy. I'm descended from Abraham. I'm in.

And Jesus came to them with the gospel of the kingdom. He would present to them, look, just because you're Jewish doesn't mean you're going to enter the kingdom. You have a decision to make, strike the end of the narrow gate. So this is stunning news to the Jews who have all been told, but I'm descended from Abraham. So the gospel of the kingdom was even to tell them, no, you have a decision to make here. You have a decision to make to believe. And the Jews, by and large, rejected that, rejected that message. All right, so that's a key thing to understand. unbelief to a state of belief. That's the challenge. It's not something to conflate. It's not a matter of, you know, you've got to repent and believe.

It's the repentance is to repent, change the mind to a state of belief versus unbelief. Yeah. So is repentance or belief ever in the perfect tense? Or is it present tense always? I have to check in terms of a thorough thing. The believing, when it's offered, is you must believe now. It's the way it's presented. That's like present tense, right? Yes. Yeah, present tense. Here's the Philippian dealer. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ right now. Yes? I was just thinking, you just said it. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ versus yourself and your ancestry, your religion. That's right.

Here's the Apostle Paul in Philippians. He said, I've got this, and this, and this, and this. And he listed seven things. Four of them are all things that were things he was just born with, born into. And he had three other things that were personal accomplishments. So it's all about your history on the planet and what you did, instead of about what Christ did. A huge distinction in thinking. Let's take a look here.

So verse 12, and they returned to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away. And again, Bethany is right on the back side of the Mount of Olives, so that's compatible with what we've recorded before. So, in the first chapter of Acts, we see in verse 2 a brief reference to Christ's ascension. So what, in verse 2, he says, until the day when he was taken up into heaven. What we get then is a more detailed description of how that came about. Yes?

I was going to ask, okay, so when he went up and he was hidden by the clouds, One initially would think of that being like the rocket going up into the sky and disappearing out of sight. But this is talking about going to the third heaven with God, right? So it would be like the rocket, he would just disappear into this other third heaven dimension, right? So it would take clouds to hide the fact that he just disappears.

But let's take a look here. What did the two men tell the disciples? It's going to come back in the same way. So let's take a look in the middle of page 3. We've got something that's from the eleven disciples, a cloud receiving him out of their sight. As they were looking upward, two men came to the angels, telling the disciples that Jesus would return in the same way he had left.

One is with the clouds, and we see that from Daniel 7.13 all the way into Revelation 1.7. Several passages here. So, with the clouds, that's one characteristic. The second one, to take a throne.

To think about it, He ascended and then did what? He sat down at the right hand of God. So he took a throne, right? And when he comes back, what's he going to do? He's going to come back and take a throne. Is it the same throne? It's a different throne. This is a heavenly throne next to the Father. When he comes back, it will be David's throne. He will sit on David's throne.

And the third characteristic in common is from and to the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14.4. Have you ever heard of the Battle of Armageddon? Well, it isn't really a battle there, it's a campaign of Armageddon.

It actually has eight stages, and the final stage is when Christ comes here to the Mount of Olives, as recorded in Zechariah 14.4. So, Jesus left from the Mount of Olives, he will come back to the Mount of Olives. And that will be the eighth stage out of the campaign of Armageddon. It will be that campaign. So this will be the final part of his return.

So the seeking of Christ in the heavenlies in the right hand of the Father is not a matter of human witness and testimony, of course, but that is taught in the Old Testament into the New Testament. The key Old Testament passage on this theme is Psalm 110.1, and we've seen that in the book of Hebrews.

The Lord says to my Lord, sit at my right hand and make your enemies a footstool for your feet. So in the New Testament, Psalm 1101 is the most quoted and referenced Old Testament passage. That one verse is quoted more than any other, and it's quoted in the Gospels. Jesus himself says it. It's recorded in the Gospels.

It's recorded on into Acts in Peter's Pentecost. presentation to the Jews, and in Hebrews. We've seen it once and we'll see it again. So directly quoted, and then summarized with similar words. We see all the way from Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and Acts, In Romans, Ephesians, Colossians 3.1, and then we'll see it, we have seen it, and we'll see it again in Hebrews and then in 1 Peter. Yes?

Isn't this also what Paul is referring to in Romans 5.8?

While we were yet enemies? So, in other words, if you never come to a full belief of faith, you remain enemies. Yes, but that's talking about while we're yet sinners, he died for us, right? But this is particularly referring to Christ's seeding in Adam and Eve. I understand that, but the people who are opposing him are his enemies. And unless you become a child of God, or a believer, you remain an enemy. So, yeah, until I make your enemies a stool for your feet. Now, those words anticipate the time when Christ will return with us. It's important to make a distinction here. Christ returns for us, that's what we call the rapture. And then Christ returns with us a second time. A distinction there. Yeah. Really, almost Twilight Zone thing is, that was totally legit. Well, it was referenced to in the book of Jude, that this was going to happen with his saints. And Enoch said the same thing, that he would come One of the saints.

So you think about it, what the disciples are not understanding is the first and second coming. Christ had a first coming, and He had a purpose in that. As a matter of fact, the name Jesus really focuses on He is the Savior. So His first coming fulfills that purpose. And the second coming, The second coming, then, is fulfilled in something quite different.

And so, this question that the disciples are asking is now the time to ask this occasion for Israel. They're not getting these first and second comings real clear. They're not understanding that. And that's something to think about. The Jews had a lot of things mixed up.

They talk about the prophet, which is the one Moses told us. They talk about the Messiah, then Joseph, who would suffer. They talk about the Messiah, then David, who would come and reign and sit on David's throne. So they talk about all those. And then there was talk about this Elijah, the forerunner.

And they had it all mixed up. And then, what about salvation? Did the Jews have salvation mixed up? Yeah, yes they did, because they thought, hey, I'm in the genealogy, the son of Abraham will be in it. And so they had a lot of things mixed up. And the disciples, having grown up in this, even with Jesus talking to them for several years, they had all this Jewish teaching background really mixed up and messed up. And they're trying to get it straight in their head. And it was all there in the Old Testament scriptures, but the Jews had not understood it. The Jews had not understood it. And so that's one of the reasons why the disciples were so mixed up in reading. And unfortunately, a number of Christians are still not accepting Jesus.

Yes? Can you help me understand when you said Christ returns for us, and that's the rapture, and then Christ returns with us, and that's the second coming? Sure. The rapture is when Christ comes to take the church, and only church saints, right? Take church saints prior to the tribulation to be with him. And so we're going to sit out the tribulation period. It doesn't mean that there's a promise we won't have tribulations. We will. In the world, you will have tribulations. So in the world, you'll have tribulations, but THE tribulation, that seven-year period of time, is something that we won't be here for.

And so he will come for us. The term that's been used, and it's a Latin term, Latin-based term, is rapture. The Greek word, and it is in the New Testament, because people say rapture is not in the Bible. Well, it's because the Greek word is tarponso, to be taken up. And Christ will come for us, and those passages begin in the Gospel of John.

Remember, Christ says, let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me. And then what does he tell them? In my Father's house are many mansions. I'm going to go and prepare a place for you, to take you to be with myself, that where I am, you may be also. That's His coming for us, okay? His coming for us. And by the way, one of the things that I get to tell people, you know, we've had over the course of time, I've been here at Holly Hills, we've had people go home to be with the Lord.

And I can tell those that remain, that are family and friends, is all believers will be raptured. Some will be taken alive. But all believers will be raptured. First, those who are asleep in Christ will be taken up, and then those who are alive and remain will be taken up. But all will be raptured. So we're all going to be raptured. Don't worry about that. Yes? The rapture is never referred to as one of His comings, though. That's separate.

Yeah, in other words, we say first and second coming. But we can say he comes for us, but he doesn't come all the way down, does he? His first coming, he came all the way down to planet Earth. His second coming, he will come all the way down to planet Earth. But this coming for us, he will meet us in the air. Right? Meet us in the air. So it won't be a coming down to Earth, it will be a coming simply to meet us in the air that gave us to be with him.

By the way, I'll have people from time to time ask me what puzzles them. How is it that we have this future rapture, and that's when the Lord takes us up, and that what we talk about, well, this person went home to be with the Lord, is face-to-face with the Lord now. Is there a conflict there? Is there a problem? I forget where it's mentioned in the New Testament, but it mentions that your body will be I guess, yearning to join up with the rest of these. Well, okay, let's think about this. Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4 that those who have gone before go first, right? And then those who are alive go.

So I think there's an understanding here that resolves to be absent from the body, to be present with the Lord. It's like there's no waiting time. The way I see it is this, those who have gone before are taken forward in time to the time of the rapture immediately. Has God stopped doing things in earth time? No. But they're taken forward to be with the Lord at the time of the rapture, so that those who are alive then are brought up as well. So those who have gone home already, including the Apostle Paul and all the disciples among them, those who have gone already are brought forward in time of the rapture. So they close their eyes, and the next thing they know is the rapture. So we state from our perspective in time, yes, that person is facing the face of the Lord, even though the rapture hasn't taken place.

Why? Because from that person's experience, they're brought forward to the time of the rapture. They're not sitting there twiddling their thumbs, you know, saying, boy, I'm sure this thing happens very quick, this is kidding. holes in here, right? You know, lying here in this box.

Yes? So, does that mean that the souls underneath the altar, since they were cognizant of what was going on, that's after the rapture, right? The souls on the altar that you're referring to out of Revelation, those are tribulation saints. Okay? Those are tribulation saints. So, they were not raptured? No, those are tribulation saints, not church saints. It's the church saints from Acts 2 to the time of the rapture, those are church saints.

So does that mean, I've never heard that the body and the soul aren't really ever separated then? Well, the body and the soul are separated. If you think about it... I was hoping that the soul was facing the face of the Lord, but the body was told to pray and tell the wrath.

That's right. But here's one other thing, and this is another neat thing to be able to tell people, and that is, okay, we're having the graveside services. You know, if I go to the graveside service, I say, this is temporary. Okay? It's good that we do this respectful thing, you know. We bury the body and put a marker and all that, and that's fine. But realize this is all temporary. This isn't permanent. And I say that because ultimately the Lord's going to take this body, and they will all be changed, as babies die first. We will all be changed. We'll all be changed in 2021, whether or not, in a moment.

I guess the one thing that often we aren't cognizant of is that we have to have the point driven home to us that God created time as well. Time is a created entity, yes. Time is a created entity, and God is not restricted to time as we see it. to do so, which he did with Christ, and will do again when Christ comes to reign. Yes?

Q. So in other words then, Christ going up into the air and being given by the clouds, to me that's kind of like He goes up and just disappears, kind of like the angels.

Right. And they appear. Right. So in other words, like I said before, it's not that he just goes up until he can't see him anymore. He goes up until he disappears behind the clouds, because the clouds are there so that he can just disappear. And that's how the angels appeared also. Right. And he showed up. And let's reverse that. Second coming.

How's that going to look? There will be a materialization into this universe, right? From the third heaven, a materialization into this universe, and we will be with him, the Lord, returning and reigning with him for those thousand years, subject to time, during that time, as a created entity. but in new bodies like his. Isn't that shocking? Yeah.

And so we will return with the Lord, having sat out the tribulation, so to speak, having sat out the tribulation and returned with the Lord from the third heaven, but with bodies that materialize here. But remember, they'll be like Christ's body. How was Christ's body different when he was resurrected than before?

Was it locked in a tiny space? Here's the body. At one point, it's recorded that he ate. Did he have to eat? No. He talked about him walking right on the ground with the disciples on the road to Emmaus, but then also going right through doors and walls. So we'll have a body like this that has the capacity to operate in time, that has the capacity to deal with the material universe, but won't be subject to it.

And therefore the capacity to convince the ones who were born after the kingdom has begun that this is true, I'm here to prove it to you, and you don't have Any other thoughts, questions? Yeah, I think that there is, I'll call it overwhelming evidence that the 24 elders represent the Raptured Church. And you see them in waves of praise.

And one of those four times when the Raptured Church represented those 24 elders, I believe, sings in praise to the Lamb, one of those four times So do you think that New Heaven and New Earth is going to be the third heaven? The New Heaven was baptized. that birds fly in and that kind of thing.

The second heaven is the stellar heaven, from the solar system on out to the far-flung galaxies. The third heaven is the place in where God dwells, and that is the model, as we spoke of in Hebrews, that is the model for the tabernacle and those kinds of things.

That's the reality. What we create here on planet Earth is some kind of a shadow. It's simple. What happens in the new heavens and the new earth is you find a number of things quite different. And because you have heaven come down to earth in the New Jerusalem, and you have, for example, no longer any sea, no longer day or night.

The Lord and the Lamb are the light, apparently. And by the way, if that's on one place, it means a lot of things are translucent. or somehow distributed. So you're talking about a very different world, and I'm not sure that we'll have the same first, second, or third idea.

Peter said the reason I said that is because in Peter it says that the elements are burned up. I mean, they just... Yes, of this present heavens and earth, yes, they're atomized. They're vaporized, yes. And John describes it as rolled up as a scroll, as everything just disappears from this present Heavens and Earth. So it has to be recreated.

So we have a newly created Heavens and Earth, and what we have to do is, those who are saved out of the old Heavens and Earth are then transferred into this new creation. When did the new creation begin, by the way? The new creation began with Christ. And then, is there any other part of the new creation that is present here on this planet? The new self that Christians become? We, being in Christ, who is the beginning of the new creation, are the part of the new creation that exists right now. We believe are the beginning of the next world.

Yes? All right, so two questions. One, the third heaven is like where Christ is seated at the right hand of heaven? Yes. Okay. Second question, when Christ died, he immediately went to? Christ went to the Father, and there are two reasons we know that. One is He said, Father, into your hands I commit my spirit. And then secondly, what did He tell the thief on the cross? Today you will be with me in paradise. The paradise that Paul went to. And the paradise that is promised in the Book of Revelation. So yeah, He went to be with the Father. He came back. to the earth when his body was resurrected. And then he ascended to the Father. When you said to Mary, don't cling to me because I have not yet ascended to the Father, what are you speaking of?

Several things. First of all, it's a matter of don't hold me back from that ascension that's going to take place. So there would be that part of it. The other aspect of it is it may have been that prior to his ascension that there would be a problem with her thinking, you know, I'm going to hold on to this guy.

I'm not going to let him go. And he says, no. I died and that was on purpose. He said, you're not going to hold, you're not going to keep me here. I do have to ascend. Yes, but as soon as he arose, he ascended. But now he's saying to her, I have not yet ascended.

He died, and spiritually, but his body was here, right? So he didn't ascend in terms of this physical new body ascension until the day of the ascension that we see recorded in Acts chapter 1. Spiritually, he went to be with the Father, but only in spirit at the time when he gave up his spirit. And we said previously when we were studying it through it, Jesus didn't die a death. He voluntarily gave up his spirit. He didn't die a death that is normally the case where people's bodies fail and then their spirit and soul separates from the body. When he died, he died voluntarily giving up his spirit.

We've got people waiting at the back doors waiting for the prayer. Lord, we thank you for what you've revealed here about your ascension and about your scheme. And as we'll look ahead here, that's important as to that we have in heaven. And Lord, we thank you for these marvelous revelations. It's an amazing thing to reveal because you love us and care for us. And Lord, we do entrust these things to you. We pray for a growing understanding that we might grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. We pray in Jesus' name, amen.