Knowing and Growing – Ephesians 4:11-16

I just love this passage. Of course, I like Ephesians. It continues to enthrall me, but this passage, going through it every time, I just, hey, this is great stuff. So this is part of our Knowing and Growing series, and what we've been doing here in the first three months, and so next week will be the last part of it, is kind of the Knowing the Lord passages in the New Testament.

We won't exhaust all of them. And, as we've said, there are passages in the Old Testament as well that are certainly valuable and relevant. So, anyway, we will shift gears starting in April. We'll be looking at about a six-month series on what God is doing in the life of the believer. And in some cases, we'll actually touch on passages we've already looked at here, but with a different perspective.

The passage here, Ephesians 4.11-16 is one that talks about our knowing the Lord together as a church body.

We touched on that last week when we looked at Galatians 5.13-6.1 and when we did that we saw it started off with walk individually in the spirit and then at the end of the passage in Galatians 5.25 that's where it uses a different word for walk and that's frequently overlooked because they just use the same English word but it's a walking together and it's a word that was used among the Roman soldiers for the Roman soldiers marching in unison So this one has some interesting things about it and special insights I would say.

One is it talks about five spiritual gifts. So two of the five gifts are temporary and the other three endure until the rapture. So that's one thing. This passage contains a triple definition of knowing the Lord. So that's interesting, and it's a corporate that is together knowing the Lord. It's a crippled definition, as we'll soon see here. Next, God intends something to happen in a church that simply cannot happen in a classical seminary or Bible college environment.

Years ago, Brad Mastin, many of you know who he is, Brad Mastin was looking at going to a few different seminaries. And I wasn't terribly impressed with any of the seminaries he was considering. But I said, why are you going to seminary? And he said, well, I've been told by pastors and different people, if you really want to study deeply, that that's what you need to do. I said, well, I certainly don't mean to speak ill of anyone, but those pastors are not doing their job. because it says pastors and teachers are equipping here. Where are seminary professors in there? So the seminary is an option, but it's not central to God's plan for equipping the saints. Spiritual immaturity is defined as three different kinds of vulnerabilities.

So we'll take a look at that. And then knowledge and knowing the Lord are tied closely to its working out and application in the body of Christ. So here's the whole passage. Ephesians 4, 11 through 16, and this is a numerical standard. And he gave some as apostles and some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints for the work of the service to the building up of the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith and to the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children tossed here and there and by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness and deceitful scheming. But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects unto him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

One of the things that's really interesting is some years ago a fellow asked me, how do I know if this is a church that I should be a part of? How do I know if this is a church where I should continue to stay at? And then the other question that I'll actually be addressing later on, when is the time to leave? Biblically. Because people leave for all sorts of reasons. Usually not biblical. But when is it time to leave? So this passage actually answers that question. Should I stay? And when is it time to leave? It actually is answered in this passage. So we'll take a look at it one step at a time.

Here's Ephesians 4.11 at the bottom. And he, Christ, gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers. So on to the top of page 2 here. So apostles and prophets is referenced here as a pair of gifts or rolls in the church three times in the book of Ephesians. And this is actually the third time that it's addressed in Ephesians.

So Ephesians 2.20.

It talks about the church, and it says, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone. This kind of description, this comparison to a building, how would they build the buildings in those days, right? The first thing they would do is they would dig a trench, but they would lay down what? The cornerstone, and then everything else would be oriented according to that cornerstone. So that was the means of building foundation.

So then you have Ephesians 3.5, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit.

This doesn't contain the words, but it conveys the idea that is in the Apostle Paul's letters fairly often, and in Ephesians, and that's the idea of a mystery. Biblically, what's a mystery? It's a truth revealed, not been revealed. It hasn't been revealed in the past, but is now revealed.

So it has in some senses almost an opposite meaning from the way we often use it. We will speak of, oh, that's just a mystery. That is, we still don't understand it. And we would often use that expression. But in the biblical sense, and this starts all the way in the Old Testament on into the New. A mystery is something previously unrevealed, but now revealed. And like I say, that is consistently an Old Testament on into the new biblical term. The Bible always uses the word mystery in that same way.

So here we come into Ephesians 4.11, and Christ gave some as apostles and some as prophets, some as evangelists and pastors and teachers. So see the last page says page, and it doesn't give you the page, but that one is indeed the last page, page 6. And there we have way too much information on spiritual gifts, and so we will certainly not be going into it.

What that does, I'll give it in summary, is it gives you the passages, 1 Corinthians 12 and two parts of it. and then in Romans 12.6-8 and Ephesians 4.11, it gives you listings of the spiritual gifts, some of which are only for the apostolic era, and some of which are church age gifts.

What we find is this list of apostles and prophets are from the apostolic era. And then that is the gift of apostles, the gift of prophecy. And then the evangelists and pastors and teachers, pastors being shepherds in the list, are things continuing on into the present age. And then it gives at the bottom part the qualifications of an apostle.

So at any rate, way too much information for us to dig into now. But the information is there if you want to dig into it. So, continuing on here, the Apostles, which literally means special messengers, and it's by the way used at times outside of the official definition in the New Testament, because you could have someone who's a special messenger, but not necessarily one of the Twelve, right? So someone was sent on a special mission of some kind.

But it essentially was a super gift. The gift of Apostle, was the Apostle a teacher? Yes, the Apostle was a teacher. Did the Apostle do miracles? He did miracles including healings and things of that sort. So that would be another aspect to it. What other aspects of being an apostle was a part of this super gift, if you will? Did they get direct revelation from God? Yes, direct revelation from God about things, and it would sometimes be things specific to a particular situation. and other times be direct revelation from God, and this is now scripture.

The Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 4.1, he wrote there, he says, you guys need to understand, and it's the same word, you know, rectum and Romans 6.11, you guys need to come to the conclusion that we are stewards of the mysteries of God. Mysteries being something previously unrevealed but now revealed. So an apostle would get a special revelation sometimes to a particular situation but also to be able to write scripture and to be able to lay those things out from the Lord and for them to even know this is from the Lord. And probably one of the most clear instances of that would be the Apostle John writing Revelation, where he says, I got this from God to Jesus to an angel to me.

Yes? Now, James wasn't an apostle. He was the brother of the Lord. That's correct. That's correct. But did he get direct relationship? Yeah, let's talk about that. Because what you had is apostles were a super gift. Their giftedness included several different things. Peter in 1 Peter 5 could say, I'm a fellow elder, right? Because he's also a shepherd, right? Because why? Being an apostle is a super gift. But to get back to your very important question, Here is James. He's not an apostle. Did he associate with the apostles? Yes.

As a matter of fact, here's another thing we're going to point out, but we won't dwell on it. James is the only name of an elder in the entire New Testament that we are sure of his identity as an elder. And that's something about elders, whereas our tenancy, I mean, for example, in our modern era, we can tend to think of high-profile pastors. And we'll have pastors who have, you know, study Bibles named after them, and, oh, this guy here. And sometimes we'll not even know the name of the church, but we'll know, you know, this pastor at some particular place. And if anybody asks, well, who are the other elders?

You couldn't name them. So we tend to, in our modern era, to have high-profile pastors. That's not the biblical model. And so that's one of the things you won't see us featuring here. We'll tell you who the elders are, but we don't have any high-profile ones. We don't say, hey, this is our flagship guy, right? Don't do that, because in the end, that's not the purpose. It's not consistent with being an elder. James was the half-brother of our Lord. He was not an apostle.

But here's what you find. There are those who were prophets, that is, they spoke for God into the church situation. And that was also a gift that the apostles themselves had. So what you find is there's this pair. Here's apostles and prophets during the apostolic era. And now you find from that time on into now, you have this pair. Here's shepherds, pastors, and teachers. So they're a pair.

And essentially, an apostle has the gift of prophecy. a shepherd has the gift of teaching. So it's an interesting thing in terms of here's the apostolic era pattern, super gift that includes prophecy with the apostles and then now you have from then continuing into now, here is a shepherd who has within that the gift of teaching and there are those who simply have the gift of teaching. By the way, One of the things that can happen is you can have a guy who really only has the gift of teaching coming in to be a pastor. And he's going to be over his head. He's going to be over his head and there are going to be difficulties. Why? It's because he's not really gifted for the role that he's been hired for. It can happen. So now we look at that.

So the Apostles, as we saw in Ephesians 2.20, were foundational. They're there to establish things. But finally, we see at the bottom part of the page, Christ gave, and it says he gave, and that's in the context, it's Christ gave. Christ gifted the church with pastors, that is shepherds and overseers or elders and teachers. There are a few points to look at. So we have apostles and prophets as gifts from Christ, evangelists as gifts from Christ to the church, and pastors and teachers.

Regarding a pastor, it says a pastor, that is a shepherd, is an overseer or an elder, may or may not also have the gift of evangelism. So by the way, so what happens in some churches, particularly churches of the Baptist orientation, what do they do at the end of every service? Make an evangelistic appeal. Is that pastor necessarily gifted with the gift of evangelism?

No, but we force him into that mold, right? Whether he's gifted that way or not. It also brings in the question, you know, like in a smaller church like this, if there's somebody that comes in here that I don't know, I know it right off, and I try to get a perception, does this person know the Lord? And we have had instances where people come here and eventually they know the Lord. So you have that. And that's an important recognition because whole church denominations force the pastor into this evangelist mode and he may not be gifted by God for that.

He may be. I would say that of the elders we have had here in recent times, Hal Malloy was one. He'd get into a hospital room or something like that, and boy, he's evangelizing. His heart is there. The Lord has incidentally used me sometimes for people coming to the Lord, but I don't believe I have the gift of evangelism.

Alright, so next, a pastor is also a teacher, but a teacher may not be a pastor, right? It's kind of the thing, you know, all nickels are coins, but not all coins are nickels. So, important recognition there. Not all, all apostles were prophets, but not all prophets were apostles, right? Same comparison.

A believer who teaches in the secular realm may not also have the gift of teaching. You might have a Christian teacher who teaches at the local high school. That does not mean he has the gift of teaching here. You may have a guy who is a plumber in his real life or an electrician in his real life. who has the gift of teaching. Just someone who teaches isn't automatically someone who has the gift of teaching. It's a spiritual gift, not a natural gift just transitioning.

There are cultural definitions of a pastor and what he does and how he works that do not fit the biblical role of the pastor. Getting a degree in seminary does not make a person qualified to be a pastor. It may not make a person qualified to be a teacher. So, anyway, it's important to recognize there are cultural things and then there are spiritual things and they don't necessarily coincide. Okay. Next, top page three, and there's a bullet listing of pastors and shepherds and whatnot of some of the things that are called upon in that role. So shepherding the flock, and it's interesting, we tend to title somebody a pastor.

This Ephesians 4.11 passage is the only place where the word for shepherd, translated pastor, is used as a noun. It is never used of a regular human being, never used as a title. The only time that word is used as a title is for Christ, and it is done more than once in the New Testament. So just an interesting difference between our cultural patterns and what Scripture says. Because Christ is the chief shepherd, right?

So there are lots of things that fall under this shepherding role. We give a list there, I won't have time to go into it. But figuratively speaking, protecting, guiding, leading, seeking out pastures and waters, figuratively speaking. Selecting paths, correcting the path of some, rescuing, mending wounds and illnesses, etc. So then you have being an overseer. which is used either as a noun or sometimes as a verb. It will involve overlooking the character and condition of the church, taking both proactive and responsive measures to keep the church under its care in such a way as to produce a spiritually healthy and growing flock. So then we have to be on guard with the alert, be ready to take on spiritual wolves. Teach standing on and being able to discern and convey sound doctrine.

One of the things Titus 1.9 says, establish what's true and refute what's false. To rule, that is to lead or superintend well. To work hard.

Have any guy who's a lazy pastor? Not so good. So then help the weak and then other tasks which have become associated with being an elder but can be performed by others are conducting weddings, funerals, memorial services, leading services, baptism and Lord's table. Is there something that says that any of those things must be done by a pastor? Not really. So, yeah, that's not required.

One of the errors that took place earlier, Ignatius wrote, you know, you can't have a baptism unless the bishop is present. And that was not just somebody who's a local pastor, but somebody who's over several churches. And that whole idea of bishops is not biblical. But so here, in the generation right after the apostles, they're already tending into error in that.

So, then next we have Ephesians 4.12, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service to the building up the body of Christ. So the work of the service is not the pastor's or pastors' job, but that of the saints in the church body, seeing it otherwise as a prelude to pastoral or pastoral family burnout. The cultural definition of a pastor is something that pastors ought to shun. Politely, graciously, but shun. Again, I'll bring up Brad Mastin.

He began some years ago now as pastor up at Fort Collins Bible Church. The fellow who was pastor there before left because of burnout. Not because he was burned out, because his wife was burned out. at him taking on roles that were not biblically prescribed. In the US, and this is an older statistic, maybe 15 years old, but 80% of pastors admit to being over the line in their commitments, time commitments, versus their family needs. So the work of service is not the pastor's or the pastor's job, but that of the saints in the church body. Seeing it otherwise is a prelude to pastoral or pastoral family burnout. There are lots of other issues with being a pastor. By the way, about 1,500 pastors are leaving the job, not for another one, but just leaving, being a pastor every month. It's that serious a burnout issue. By the way, I don't feel like I'm at risk of burnout.

Now, Ephesians 4.13, Until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the full, precise, and correct knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of, that is, belongs to Christ.

So we're going to get some answers to questions, should I become a part of this church body or even should I leave this church body? Why do we have such a thing as a church? How can we tell if we're doing the things that church ought to be doing? Are the elders being affected towards what God has assigned them? So this is some pretty critical questions, aren't they?

And this verse particularly in this passage helps us answer those questions. So on the top of page four, We break down this same verse a little differently here. Until we all attain to, and the first line is, the unity of the faith. What we're going to discover in Acts chapter 6 is the term the faith starts there and it continues on in the book of Revelation and many of the New Testament books include those words the faith.

So let me give you a definition. The faith is the teachings of the apostles as they were accumulated over the New Testament era and the era of the apostles. So you'll find that term repeatedly. Because this was a long enough handout as it was, I chose not to list all the different places where it shows up.

But it does, and if you have one of those computer concordances where you can put in the faith, that's a good place to start for looking at it. So you have that and then you have the knowledge of the Son of God, and let me read the kind of enhancement, the full precise and correct knowledge of the Son of God. Now why are those words added and why are they important? Yes? There's a lot of cultural definitions that dark, very germane. Yes.

For example, can I have a knowledge of the Son of God through what's called today spiritual formation? That's what many propose. It's being taught at a great many Bible colleges, Christian colleges and seminaries. Spiritual formation was actually founded here in Colorado in terms of the modern era, and its capital is here. Spiritual formation is how some people would say it is, but actually it's a knowledge of the Son of God that bypasses scripture. Full, precise, and correct knowledge of the Son of God.

Actually, there are parts of Hinduism that actually look at Jesus as one of the avatars. Sri Ramakrishna, during the 1800s, actually meditated on Jesus as a part of this Hinduism. What's wrong with that? Yeah, he's bypassing scripture essentially in order to focus on Jesus and meditate on Jesus. So the correct knowledge of the Son of God, did the Apostle Paul talk about another Jesus? Yes, he did. To the Corinthians, he wrote about another Jesus. So it is possible to have wrong Jesus, wrong definition.

It can either be that Jesus is this guy, and it's like bumper stickers make a joke of it. Jesus is coming back, and boy is he ticked. Boy is he mad. Yeah? Well, Jesus in the church is even written in the Koran. Yes, that's right. So you'll find Mary and Jesus in the Qur'an.

So the full, precise, and correct knowledge of the Son of God. So this complete, accurate, and personal knowledge of the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity. And thirdly, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness that belongs to Christ. So let's look at these.

So the unity of the faith is the set of teachings of the apostles from Acts 6 on, which is not changing as to truth, but is growing as to truth. You see the difference there? It doesn't mean that I find, oh, by the time I go down the road here, Jesus is a different person than I thought he was at the beginning. No, it's additive truth, not adjusting entirely. So, for example, here in Acts 6 they talk about the faith, the teachings of the apostles.

Did they know at that point in time that Christ was seated in the heavenlies and you're seated there with him? Not at that point in time. Not until after the end of the book of Acts. In fact, even when Paul wrote Romans, And that's partway through Acts. He didn't reveal it then, and probably didn't know it at that point in time.

Yeah? So it's changing, but it's not making Christ, it's growing into what he really is. Yes, and that's why I use the term additive. Additional information, not, boy, this guy is a whole different fellow than I thought he was, right? And so that's key, it's building truth, it's not a complete spin-your-head adjustment in who you thought he was.

But you have there, here is the unity of the faith, which is talking about doctrine, teachings, then you have a full, precise and correct knowledge of the Son of God, And then there is this maturing as a whole church body with Christ as the head. So you have those three pictures as a triple definition of the knowledge of the Lord, knowing the Lord. One is the unity of the faith, which by itself says, I know about the Lord. The teachings are correct. The full, precise and correct knowledge of the Son of God is personal knowledge of Him.

Yes? So this is where doctrine comes in, right? Because culture is constantly trying to change. Always. Always. that maintains this, or one of the things that primarily maintains this, is an understanding of doctrine, right? And that's why, interestingly, it starts with doctrine. So our doctrine is not this dry, dusty, you know, here's our doctrinal statement. This dry, dusty, impersonal thing, correct doctrine is the gateway, the starting point for having a full, precise, and correct knowledge of the Son of God. By the way, that knowledge of the Son of God, is that just good for 10 years or 70? That's forever, isn't it? That's forever. I go to see Him face to face and it's not a, who are you? Right? But at last, this is Him. And then to a mature man, why? Now, here's one question. Why is it a man?

Because it's a general term, it's a generic term. Yeah, I think as we look at the biblical terms, it's important for us not to get so locked into this gender or that one that we can't understand the terminology. Because is the church not the body of Christ? Is the church the bride of Christ? Yes, so there are these different terms of comparison. Here it talks about a mature man, and it's ultimately really talking about not so much masculinity here as a person. It's personal, but guess what?

It's not individual maturity. Because a lot of times, especially here at Holly Hills, we kind of get all geared into individual maturity as like that's it. But it's individual maturity and body maturity is what we're looking at together. Well, what you're looking at here, the mature man, in other words, as a church body, we also have a singular personhood, if you will, because that's how we can talk about corporate growth. We grow together. Not just each one of us grows individually or just a collection of individuals and that's it. But there is actually a church body growth. Yes.

So back to that doctrinal thing. It's kind of like in the Old Testament where, I think it was Josiah, where he found the book or whatever, the book of the law or whatever. And so culture had changed so much and things were so bad and things were going in the wrong direction. And then he found that and he went back to the book of the law or the doctrine and then instituted that again. Right, so you have to kind of hit the reset button for everybody, right?

OK, now we look at Ephesians 4.14, plus added emphasis and added notes here. As a result, we are no longer to be immature, opposite of mature, children.

So really, Nancy and I were kind of pondering. We now have 11 grandchildren. And we just love little kids. Matter of fact, if it were up to me, I'd have Nancy having kids and kids and more kids. when she had a kidney stone and said, I'd have a hundred babies before I'd have another one of those, I heard, I'd have a hundred babies.

That's what I heard. So anyway, so what you see here is, you know, children, I just love little kids, but there is an issue with kids and that is they're very vulnerable, aren't they? They're very vulnerable at that young age. As a matter of fact, growing them up in one respect, it's not everything, growing them up is helping them to get away from the vulnerability that they were essentially born with. And that's Paul's point here.

No longer spiritually immature children tossed here and there and back and forth by waves and carried about around and around by every wind of doctrine. So if you picture a ship aimlessly wandering and seasick occupants. And by the way, at this point in time, the Apostle Paul had been through several different shipwrecks in addition to the one that's recorded at the end of Acts. Because he wrote to the Corinthians and he said, I've been through shipwrecks, multiple. and they're not recorded in AXE, so the AXE just added to the number, and there may have been more. So at any rate, this idea of being in some storm-tossed condition where you're rocking back and forth and being spun around, that's exactly what he's describing. He says there's a vulnerability, and what's the point there with this ship image?

What's the point? What are you being tossed back and forth, and what's getting rocked around? By every wind of doctrine, which is the point in the Unity of the Faith, isn't it? So one of the things you're going to find is each of the three points above in verse 13 has a corresponding caution in verse 14, that what you're growing away from.

So here's the next one, and using the ship analogy, and then by the trickery of men, And that trickery, there is from the word cubea, and you'll see it on the top of the next page, top of page 5. Cubea is cheater dice. And the cheater dice were cheater dice in one of two ways and sometimes both.

One is there would be a weighted die where instead of being evenly weighted for certain sides, they put a weight in there to weight one side so that it would skew the rolling results. The other thing that they would do, and this pair of dice is loaded dice from the Roman era, in which they had a six on one side and on the opposite side another six. So you'd have that would be one way of having cheater dice in that this Roman era pair of dice has exactly that.

On one of them, six, and on the opposite side, another six. And a cube is sometimes with a K, so if you see it spelled differently, that's okay. But the idea is that's where we get our word cube is from that term. Now the six dice to the right are not cheater dice. The opposite sides always add up to seven. Those were from the Roman era as well.

So one thing that you look at, so the trickery of men is going to do what? You got cheater dice, trickery of men is going to do what? It's going to give you a skewed outcome, isn't it? Skewed outcome. But then the last thing it talks about is deceitful scheming.

Guys who would come into the port, who were kind of newbies, come into the port there at Ephesus, pull into the port, and there would be guys there waiting for them, one guy to distract them while the other guy is lifting stuff out of his pocket and relieving him of various things that he's got on him. And so you'd have people walk into the port and before they got to the city they'd be missing something, maybe several things, right? Because of these guys that work together, one guy to distract and the other guy to you know, do this other tricky thing. So now, then what you run into after verse 14, you get in verse 15, but in contrast to verse 14, speaking the truth And this is agape, love, and it's literally, this is something that the translations bring across, speaking the truth in love. The word speaking is not actually there. It's truthing in love. And we don't usually think of truth as a verb. But this is truthing in love. And here's something that in our modern era, a lot of Christians have come away with the idea that I have to pick between truth and love.

But here the Apostle Paul puts those together, doesn't he? He puts them together. As a matter of fact, he wrote to the Corinthians and what did he say? Love rejoices in the truth. So love and truth are harmonious, not pick one. Some will say, well, we have doctrinal differences here, and between the two, we'll just choose to love one another and leave the doctrine aside. Well, wait a minute. Doctrine has to do with what's true, right? And doctrine and truth are not at odds with one another to be, you know, excuse me, love and truth are not at odds with one another to be chosen between.

And, of course, love is more important, right? Because the greatest of these is love. That was Paul's point? No. Love rejoices in the truth. And truthing in love. So the Apostle Paul himself very much tied love and truth together. So, truthing in love, we are to grow up.

So this goes along with the idea of maturity, doesn't it? So we have growth and maturity, and we're actually going to be looking at that later as part of the processes that we'll be examining more at length. Because what's the difference between growth and maturity? So growth is the process and maturity is the goal. Very important distinction, right? So look at, I mentioned we have 11 grandchildren. So here's Brennan who's 16, going to be 17 in July.

Is he mature? He's not there yet. Has he been growing? And I don't mean just physically. Yes, he's been growing physically and in other ways he's not mature. So the distinction between growth as a process It's been growing, and that's good. Is it mature yet? No, not there yet. So that distinction is an important one. There are related understandings, and we'll be looking at both of those together. So does maturity ever achieve? So here's a key.

Notice back, when we look back at verse 13, until we all attain to So let's ask this question, until we all attain to, so does that mean that there's some special growth group in the church and the rest of them it doesn't matter as much? No. So one is we all, right? So everybody is included in that. And then, until we all attain to, is there ever a point at which you say, okay, this guy, he's got our graduation button and he's done growing and, you know, we're going to have a cap and gown celebration and he's completely growing, he's mature, and...

He's a Christian Nirvana. one goes home to be with the Lord. Yeah, and ultimately, we will be looking at, for a month, the Apostle Paul wrote, here's Romans 8, 28 and 29, God works all things together for good. It doesn't mean that all things are good. Some things are really awful and nasty. But he works all things together for the good. And what's the good? We are actually predestined to be conformed to his image. So what we'll look at is that conforming process into the image of Christ is a process that can go on now, but ultimately will not be thwarted. Let's take a worst case scenario.

Do you know anybody who was a Christian and you You're pretty sure that they put their trust in the Lord and then walked away and maybe even was openly rebellious. Do you know someone like that? In their open rebellion are they thwarting the process of being conformed? Yes, yes they are. In other words, they are thwarting the process of being conformed. Will they thwart the ultimate conformity to the image of Christ?

No. So isn't that an interesting thing? You can have someone who's a Christian, and the indications, we'll look at it briefly, but indications are that there is no, you know, hey I lost my salvation or I don't believe anymore and so therefore You know, not happening. That will thwart their conforming process, but not the ultimate conformity towards which they are predestined. Yes?

On the other hand, I think when we think of somebody who is immature, he still needs guidance to become mature. And when we think of somebody who is mature, self-sustaining, he's able to think through things and continue his maturation by himself. But here's an important thing. While you're correct with regards to individual maturity, notice that this passage says that maturity and growth have to do with the body as well. So that someone who is kind of off by themselves We'd say, OK, this person is maturing spiritually, but the fact is that their being a part of the body and maturing with the body is an essential part of God's intent. So what's happening is they're getting half-growth. To make an odd comparison, it would be kind of like a person who grows up from the beltline up, but the beltline down, they stay a baby.

I mean, that's kind of odd, but the point being that the entire part of that growth is growth with a church body, in the full sense. Well, and the difference between knowledge and full knowledge. Yes. So Jesus had full knowledge, the apostles had knowledge, and it was growing knowledge through the course of time toward full knowledge, which they never really achieved. Not on earth.

So what we have, it's an interesting question to ponder, our maturity here individually is never done, is our maturing as a church body ever complete? It's not there either, right? And that's why Paul would write here, until we all attain, in other words, the point being that that's a continual pursuit, and that ought to be what the elders in the church are directing the church body toward that ought to be what's happening with people in the church body and everything that goes on needs to in some way be a part of individual as well as corporate growth together. And if you're not in a church body and you're growing and you're maturing by yourself and you can get off track easily, the church body keeps you on track. And let's ask this question, does any one person other than the apostles have all the gifts? No. So the reality is we are made, as Paul spells out in 1 Corinthians chapter 12, we are made to need those other gifts in our lives.

And it's like somebody saying, well, you know, I'm a liver and I'm just fine being a liver. And I'm always going to be a liver, and I'll just kind of hang out by my own liver-self. So I'm going to be a liver all by myself, and I'm always going to be a liver, and that's all I'll ever be. I'll go home to see the Lord, and I'll be the most mature liver you ever saw.

So you picture that and say, wow, so biblically that picture of I'm going to grow and mature spiritually as an individual, apart from the church body growth picture, it's an incomplete picture. And we start to make comparisons, drawing from scripture, because Paul says, is the whole body and I?

No, we need all the other parts. Okay, so then when we come here, verse 16, from the whole body being fitted and held together by whatever joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, cause the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love. So, do you have each individual part working properly? And then each individual part working properly then contributes to the entire church body working together. What if somebody goes off in the corner and says, you know, I don't need you guys, I'd just be a liver all by myself. How does that work?

There is an aspect of their growth and their contribution to the growth of others that is not taking place. I've met a lot of people that say that they don't need to go to church because they read the Bible, they study, they have friends, all this other sort of thing, but they don't really need to go to church. And so you look at that and a lot of times it seems to not getting involved.

Yeah, here's what you have is what we just looked at here. There is brief mention of the individual part, there in verse 16, but the rest of everything that's going on is all about the church body. That's what deity of faith is about, that's what knowledge of the Son of God is about, this is what is maturing as a church body is all about. And just like individually there's no arriving, there's no point in saying, OK, this guy's done. He's reached Christian nirvana and he doesn't need to go any further. And the church body is never there.

That's one thing that's interesting. As a civil engineer and doing other things, I'd say, OK, that project's wrapped up and I can put that to bed and go on to the next thing. As a shepherd, however, I'm never done. I can't go and say, well, I'm through with that. Yeah, I might have studied through Isaiah or through Hebrews or something, but in terms of the whole church body, it's never done. It just isn't. So when it says we are no longer to be children, He's speaking as individuals to form the body? Notice, we are, right? So is it possible to be immature individually? Certainly, right?

But his general reference, notice he keeps talking about we all attain, and we are, and his focal point, if you will, in this passage is about the church body. Although, certainly as an individual, am I to have a full and correct and complete knowledge of the Son of God? Yeah, that's where it's aimed towards. Is there immaturity and is there vulnerability as he describes in verse 14? Yes. So that's still there individually, but his main point is actually together as a church body, with brief reference in verse 16 to the individual.

And why can we say that a lot of these things apply to the individual? Because the reality is that a lot of it does apply, even though his focus here is on the whole church body. A lot of it does apply individually as well. That's a secondary application of this particular passage, because his intent is to focus on the church body. And that's why he keeps saying, until we all attain, and we this, and those kinds of statements. It's the church body together that is the focus of this passage. It's one of the reasons I keep coming back to it. I say, OK, how are we doing as a church body? Where are we at with this?

The messages to the seven churches were not written to the individuals. They were written to church bodies. So the question I have in my mind is, looking at those letters, if Christ were to write a letter to Holly Hills, what would it say? As a church body, what would it say? Would he say, I know you have this, which is an acknowledgment of what you have. But would he say, you've lost something. You lack something. What would he say? So that often goes through my mind.

What would that message from Christ, like those seven messages to the churches, what would that say if you were to write one to Holly Hills? Because it's a set of church-bodied letters, it's not to individuals. Are there applications to the individual? Yes. As a matter of fact, it says, he who has an ear, individual, he who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. So, I individually need to hear, but I also need to listen to the sacred church body. I look at what letters, what messages would Christ write similar to those That's a pretty powerful message.

We've got to close up and pray. Lord, thank you for this really astounding and insightful passage. Thank you for the focal point of this letter which is on this passage which is on the church body as a whole and we just pray that we would both individually but even as the point is made together have an understanding of where this is heading us. And we give you thanks for these insights and revelations because you love us and you care for us so deeply and so very much. We pray in Jesus name. Amen.