Knowing and Growing – Being conformed – what is God doing?

We're starting in the second week of looking at this word conformed. In the big picture, we start off the first quarter looking at knowing the Lord, realizing that we're not covering all the passages that we might cover, but some of the significant ones out of the New Testament. We then looked for about a month at what does the Bible say about man, particularly with respect to the Christian believer, what is the believer's, I'll use the term, spiritual anatomy. What does the Bible say about that? And that puts us in a particularly good spot then to start in, as we're now in the second week, in a series of things to look at the processes that God has in place. Here at Holly Hills we'll often talk about our position, which is, once we believe we have a position that is untouchable and unchangeable, right? And we appropriately talk about that. Related to that, sometimes lumped into the same, is our possessions, where the Bible says we have, and it's something that is continuing and permanent, that is true of the believer.

So for example, Ephesians 1.7, Colossians 1.14, we have, as a possession, the redemption and forgiveness of sins. And then here we talk about processes. We're going to be talking about processes for months. In this case we look at being conformed. And last week we looked at a few slides here that I think are helpful.

One of the things that we like to take a look at is the history and culture that Paul and the other authors of the New Testament wrote into, that is, what I'm amazed at is how connected they were with a particular local culture. And let's take it for instance, what city throughout the Roman Empire was famous for its mirrors? famous for its mirrors. I went to the British Museum back in January 2009, and they had a number of Corinthian mirrors on display there. They were famous for their mirrors. If you wanted a really good mirror in New Testament times, you'd get a Corinthian mirror. That's like top grade, you can't get any better than that.

So what does Paul include in each one of his letters? to the Corinthians, 1 Corinthians 13, he talks about looking into a mirror, and then again, you look at 2 Corinthians 3.18, he uses the verb for beholding in a mirror. specifically beholden in America. So it's very interesting. And the same thing is true in military terminology.

The Apostle Paul particularly used military terminology in cities that were either a Roman colony, where the Roman soldiers were well-entrenched, or, for example, in Ephesus, where there was a Roman governor and 3,000 Roman soldiers stationed there. All the roads that went in and out of these cities were built by Roman soldiers. Here, for example, when you talk about the Apostle Paul's rites of Ephesians, you talk about standing firm. He meant the cleated sandals that they had. When you talk about the armor of the faith, it wasn't just individual, like many pastors will put on, here's pictures of the individual Roman soldiers' armor.

It's not the way they fought. They fought as a team, and this is one of the forms of the tortoise formation that was central to the Roman strategy for fighting. And you fought together. You couldn't put on the upper armor without the help of your friend who was working with you. You needed help to get that on. It tied in the back. And so you're going to do a good job for him because he's going to do a good job for you, right? That was a part of the strategy.

The shields went together like this. Like you see there, the shields went together. It wasn't just a matter of one individual holding their shield up. They put their shields together. When they put their spears out, they put their spears out together. on the command of the centurion.

They had the formation, so shifting from one formation to the next as versions of this tortoise formation was a huge part of their drill. They would have demonstrations of it, and shifting from one form to the next. This one, do you see any spears? If you have cavalry coming at you, what are you going to want to have out in front of you? the spears, right?

And so that would be, some of the centurion would command, use the 80 to 100 men, he would command, give out one command that knew exactly what to do with their feet, exactly what to do with their shields, exactly what to do with their spears. So the Apostle Paul would write these things, he wrote knowing intensively, what's the culture in each place?

And the place was not uniformly the same. He didn't use the term adoption of sons. With all the churches, only the ones in cities where they had significant Roman influence. Capital city of Rome, did it have significant Roman influence? Yeah. But even Galatia, two of the five major cities of Galatia were Roman colonies. Philippi was a Roman colony. Koret was a Roman colonel, right?

So you had those kinds of things influencing things. Now, one of the things you see is the bulges, as we pointed out last week, the bulges at the front of the shields was a device to put on the front so you'd have a handhold. But it was a protected handhold, not just leaving an open hole there, right? And so, in order to make those bulged caps there, where you could put your hand inside there and hold on to the shield. So they make the shields like this. And by the way, how did they make the helmets?

Similar kind of technique, right? Because you'd have shapes that you'd want to have things in. It wasn't just flat and so particular shapes. So they would use a similar technique. And, it would look like this. You would have, here is the top of a round of wood.

They would carve that down into a concave form, and then they'd take a flat piece of sheet metal that had been beat flat, and then they'd take a ball-peen type hammer, like you see there, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Why would they not just take a great big hammer and go wham and try to smash it all in one piece? You'd tear it and make a hole in it? You would have a wrinkle ripped up? piece of metal, right? It just would not come with the result. So instead, what did you do?

You very patiently tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Too lightly and it won't take the form that you're hoping to. Too heavily and you'll end up causing damage. So just the right sense on the part of the craftsman, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. With patience and skill, Patience but diligence, knowing exactly how hard to tap. That's the word conform that is used here in this passage. Yes?

One thing I learned about metal, especially copper, is the more you bend it, the harder it gets. It might be the same way with steel, so the tapping out actually makes the metal harder. Yes, you align the crystal structure and that actually makes it harder. And then you can actually heat treat things and make them harder still, in some cases.

But this is the basic idea, and they would use that for those hand holds and the shields. You go back, see the hand holds and the shields. Use that technique where you'd have this concave end to a piece of wood, and you'd tap, tap, tap. Why do we bring that up?

Because it talks in this passage that's central to our study, Romans 8.28-30, it talks about being conformed, and what does it say? Predestined to be conformed to the image of the sun. Just like this piece of metal, in a sense, is predestined by the craftsman to be made into this concave piece. It's being conformed, same word, being conformed into that shape that's at the end of the piece of wood. The shape that it's going to be is already there, isn't it?

And the events of life, whether they're on the spiritual side, God can influence things spiritually, right? On the spiritual side, whether they are on the physical side, things that happen, things that are short-term things, things that are long-term and maybe even chronic things. And we've talked about previously, there can be some things that you look at and say, you know, this was really, really bad. But that does not thwart that God is predestined that the believer be conformed, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, to the image of Christ. Yes?

Q. I read your paper again on predestination means love. Coming from a Calvinist background, But I like what you have to say, and it seems to be true. He predestined us in love. Yeah.

Predestination is not something we should look at as, oh no, I just don't have any control over anything, I'm just this automaton run by God, but rather always an expression of great love and care, and it's in the context of great love and care. And so I think that's how we should look at it, and it's not taking away our or freedom to choose, it's not taking away our independence as a being, but instead it's something we should take great comfort in. I take great comfort in Romans 8, 28 and 29 because in part it doesn't mean that I want to blow it or that I don't care or I'm apathetic, but in the end I can't ultimately blow it. I can't do something where God says, well, that's it.

I am messed up for eternity. I can't ultimately blow it. Can I blow it in the near term? Yes. And we can even get to a place where there's spiritual retrogression and all that. But, in the end, I cannot ultimately blow it. And that's what predestination tells us. It's, we will be conformed.

Yes, and so it should be comforting, not a dread, and not a complacency. Right? But comforting. Yeah, Roy? I was just thinking of the God works all things together being the context here, right? Yes. Even the unbelievers are part of his working to conform us.

Yeah, and here's unbelievers that you work with, next-door neighbors, unbelievers that you may be related to. All those things are things that fit into God's ultimate pattern of being conformed to the image of the Son. People sometimes go through some awful things, some terrible things, and Nancy and I have been wrestling just even in recent days with And here's some terrible things that happen to people we love and care about. So in the midst of that, still, God's predestination is not thwarted.

And he's using all things, and we're free to say that there are some really awful things that happen, and that people make terrible choices. Really. And we're free to say that. We don't have to play some pretend game. Some Christians do. You know, like everything's good. No it isn't. But there are some things, some of them are really horrible and awful, but it doesn't run counter to God predestining that we're conformed to the image of Christ. And that leaves me free to pray about things. That leaves me free to call what's bad, bad. It leads me to always have hope, regardless of what happens. So let's take a look at our handout here.

We have this kind of understanding that we've been working with, and I just continue to find more and more ways in which what you see in the diagram, here's the physical realm, here's the spiritual realm, lots of ways in which that makes good sense. So what we have here, given that we're physical beings and we're spiritual beings, when it says God works all things, does that mean just the physical things? Does that mean just the spiritual things? No. He works all things, physical and spiritual, together for the good that we're being conformed to the image of the Son.

Nancy and I know a fellow, last talked to him a few years back, but know a fellow who walked away from the Lord for seven years. His wife remained faithful, continued to pray for him. In one sense, you can look at it real clearly, and would it have been better if he'd continued to walk with the Lord? Did God use that in her life, a faithful Christian wife and woman, did he use it in her life to conform her to the image of the Son? No. Was it a good thing that he walked away for seven years? No. I'm really happy he returned.

Praise the Lord for that. But as you look at things, this is a really helpful thing to understand. that God's using these things for good, even if what's going on is not, you can say it's not good. And so one of the things we did is we said, being informed, what is it? And that's what we looked at last week in one of the meetings. We looked at this series of illustrations here to give us some understanding. Then, at the second week, and we'll be doing this with each of the different words and topics, the next one is, what is God doing? Our sequence is, we look at the third week, what is the believer's part? And this is really insightful, because then we understand, in each case, here's the process, what is God doing, and now understanding that, what's my part?

Then I'm not stepping in and trying to do what God's already doing. I'm not assuming that God's going to do something that he isn't going to do. By the way, is it God's job to keep me from having any problems? It is not. And some Christians will get that mindset. They get mad at God and frustrated and everything else. That's not God's job.

As a matter of fact, I'll put it this way. keeping us from having any troubles is God's job. He's doing a terrible job, right? If that were God's job, He's just doing awful. And if that were God's job, you would have a right to be angry and mad and upset and frustrated and, I would say, greatly disappointed. But that's not His job.

So let's look at what Romans 8.28-2.30 says, and what we'll do is we'll bold the things that are God's doing.

So, and it says, and we know that, start with the bold, God causes all things to work together for good. End of bold. To those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. Who does the calling? God does the calling, so that's God's job again. So there's where we start the bolding. Called according to his purpose. End of bolding. For those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed in the image of the sun. Is it God's job to foreknow? Is it God's job to predestine? Does predestination make me complacent and apathetic?

Why not? Why doesn't it make me complacent and apathetic? They say, well, God's predestined everything, He's controlling everything, and He'll do whatever He's going to do. But why don't I take that attitude? Because we do have a part in it. One is, we do have a part, so total complacency is not the biblical picture. Right? So total complacency is not the biblical picture.

That's why next week we'll look at it and say, what's our part? So that's one part. What else? Why else are we not looking at this and just kind of throwing up our hands or saying, oh, I just don't care. It costs too much to care. Well, if we're being conformed to the image of the sun, he was not complacent. All right, so he's not complacent. Imagine, here is, and by the way, does that include me personally? God causes all things to work together for good for those who, you know, except for Bert. Right? Everybody else but not Bert. Right?

Well, poor Bert would be perfect. Yeah, corporately as a body and individually as each individual person. Who he's doing all things to work together. And, you know, that's something when we say spiritually, he's actually using the church body in this. Right? So we don't just come here as a bunch of individuals who have a common interest. We come here because he actually intends to use the church body as a part of that whole thing, so that he will just give it credit. OK, so those whom he foreknew. And by the way, are there any believers that he doesn't foreknow? No. It's not like, boy, I'm sorry you didn't make the list. Doesn't happen. He also predestined. Is there anybody that he failed to predestine?

I just got to the end of the room, and my pen ran out of ink. I ran out of paper. Sorry, break time. I just forgot. None of that happens. So there isn't a one of us that's somehow forgotten or left off the list. Not one. Now, think about that. He did all this for each and every single one of us, no exceptions. And He has unlimited time for you alone. He has not pressed for time about you. You have His undivided attention.

Now, how can I say that? How is that even possible? It's possible because he's an infinite God, and he's not pressed like you and I would be. It's one of the things that the elders wrestle with. This is not a big church, but you divide it up. How much time do I have for each person? And it's not that much. But you know what? God doesn't have that.

Well, he lives outside of time. Yeah, time is something he created. He is not constrained by it except to the extent that he intends to do so. For example, here is Christ, born of a But he knew what he was doing. So except for when he knowingly steps into time to intervene, to have Christ be born of a woman, except for when he knowingly and knowledgeably and quite aware steps into time, and knowing the consequences, except for that. Yeah, God's not stuck in time. He created it. He's not subject to it. He's not limited by linear time. Even if we use the words foreknow, predestined, that's time tunnel language to accommodate us. God is not looking into the future. He sees all times as now. So let's look at the rest of this.

He predestined to become conformed to the image of his son. That's God's doing. That is, I'm going to try really hard to be conformed to the image of his son. By the way, can I do that? No. And the problem is that if Christians somehow have the idea, and there are parts of Christendom where that gets pushed, somehow it's my job to make myself conform to the image of Christ. That's a problem.

So what's God's part? And when we talk about resting, depending, those kinds of words, it's resting in what God has already done and is doing. I don't have to worry about that. I do have a part, but all of it is dependent upon what He's done and is doing. And that part looks like faith. My part. Looks like faith. We'll talk about that more next time. So let's look at the end of that.

So that he would be the firstborn among many brethren. Who's he? Christ. Christ would be the firstborn among many brethren. And your grandchildren, you are his great-grandnephew. You're his? Brethren. Brethren. God has no grandchildren. I love having grandkids. We have 11 of them. But God has no grandchildren.

And these whom he predestined, and who does that include? You, right? Put your name in there. Put your name in there. He also called those whom he called. He also justified those whom he justified. He also glorified. By the way, have you been glorified yet?

No. No? And so what's this language? It sounds like it's already done. Why use that language? We're still here. I don't know about you, but this isn't all that glorious a body I've got on me right now. I mean, I can do things to try to tweak it. I just signed up this last month. This body is on Medicare. Why? Because things go wrong. Things go wrong, but here we have this body is so certain to be glorified that he writes as if it's already happened. He writes it in past tense.

Yes, and that's exactly what this is. That speaks of our position, doesn't it? Yes. And so I think that's one thing. It's called proleptic. It's speaking as if something is either happening now or has happened already. And the Bible does that. And speaking it, why? Because of the absolute certainty of future transaction. Yes?

I'm wondering about the glorified. Is that past tense or future, or what is that? Because it's a spiritual thing, right? So have we become glorified because we have the life of Christ? Let's look at it on the spiritual side. It's already happened, hasn't it? Where are you seated? In Christ in the heavens. Spiritually speaking, it's already done.

Our body is just waiting to catch up with it. Spiritually, it's already accomplished. Our bodies are just simply waiting to catch up to us. But the time that we have here and now is not wasted time. We're not sitting around twiddling our thumbs, spiritually speaking. It's not wasted time. It is time that is there by God's intent. And that's why we take a look at these processes. The processes are in place because they matter. The processes are in place because he loves us. And none of us drops out or is somehow bypassed in this thing. Every single one of us is 100% included, totally, completely, no grayscale, no oopses. Yeah, Roy?

One of the words used here is according to his purpose. And what is that? It wasn't random that God is doing this. He has something in mind to accomplish. And it won't be unaccomplished, because who he is will be brought to completion. We use the word predestined or horizon. It's within the limits of His rule that we're operating in. That's a wonderful thing, because there's no distinctful aspect to this, but there's a purpose in it. I think that's something for us to take great comfort in, that everything is by God's intent.

You know, one of the things I've said is greater pains have a greater purpose. And everything is aimed towards his purpose. And I look at different things, and you know, alright, I've been going through this, or I've been through that, and boy this really hurts after decades of time. But I look at it, and greater pains have greater purpose. A bigger part.

And it blows my mind away that he has included us in his purpose. Yes, isn't that mind-boggling? And by the way, how can anything be glorified apart from him? He is the definition of glory, the radiant essence of who God is. So I look at this. But this is mind-boggling, amazing how much he cares.

Not just, hey, let's save you, and we'll figure out what goes on from there. But instead, I say, hey, this is where it's going on for eternity. And so this is just a get-ready kind of place. Yeah. Proleptic in the free dictionary means the anachronistic representation That's what he's saying right here. Glorified, it already exists. It already exists spiritually.

Physically, we're waiting to catch up to it. One of the ways that I kind of jokingly put it is, God does a whole bunch of things from the moment we believe. In truth, those things started in the eternity past before he said, let there be light. But we spend the rest of our lives catching up to what God's already done. That's really the way it is.

We're kind of running to catch up to what God's already accomplished. And when we talk about spiritual growth, what is that? We're growing into what God's already done. You're blessed with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ. Did you know what those were when you first believed?

Now, here's another one. Ever been to a church where it seems like every single service ends with an altar call and that kind of thing? I've attended some of those. Not that I've chosen them out, but I have been there. And you wonder, you say, boy, I feel like when I go to church, one of the things I want to do is I want help catching up to what God's already done. That's really what I want to learn about.

And that's, I would say, one of the things that we're about here at Holly Hills, is helping people catch up to what God's already done. Because that's really cool. That's really cool. If all you do is focus on getting people saved and getting people saved, as important as that is, if that's all that's happening, it's kind of like a hospital that only has a maternity ward. But wait a minute, we've got some other things to deal with here. What is his purpose? Let's ask that. What is God's purpose? What's God doing? How can we bring together, what's God's purpose? That's a big word in here, right? What is it?

To conform us to the image of Christ. Okay. The process that he's got going is that his purpose. It's part of it. But that's only part of it. Yeah, it is a part of it, and that's the reason that the process is there, and he's telling us about it. I'm reminded of what Hal taught. Do you mind if I share that? Please do. That God declared his glory in the heavens, and he revealed his glory in Christ. And he shares his glory with us so that he, in the eternity, will be glorified. Yes, so that he will be glorified. Ultimately, that's God's glory. Right? Yeah, Gail? Yeah. I think that his purpose is that, well, in Revelation 321, he says, come out. Come out, and I'll sup with you.

And he wants us horrible creatures which we are in ourselves. He wants us to know Him. He wants us to be like Him. To be so close. And that's His purpose. As we go through this, we'll be looking at exactly that. We are made to be like him. We talk about being his brethren. We're made to be like him. That being conformed, and we'll look at being transformed next. That would be the next one. Into what?

They're both conformed and transformed. They're both in the image of Christ. Some folks look at them as if they're saying, no they're not. They are two different parallel processes, being transformed and being conformed, but they both aim us in the same direction, toward the image of Christ. They are two very different processes that we will see, but they have the same end goal, the image of Christ. Isn't it neat? So God designed this really amazing thing with two parallel, ongoing processes, both headed us in the same direction. That's pretty astounding. Okay, let's look on page 2.

It says we have God as sovereign over political authority. We talked about how God works all things. We don't need to get all worried and stirred up about who won the last election and who's going to get the next one. We don't need to worry about the bill going to Congress or what the Supreme It's going to thwart what we've just read here in Romans 8, 28-30. God's not saying, oh no, they elected that guy. God's not somehow frustrated and worried, pacing the floor of heaven. Oh no. It's not going to get in his way.

Imagine in the New Testament times you had these pagan emperors who called themselves deity and insisted that people go to their shrine and offer a sacrifice to this emperor's deity. And some of them were disgusting. I mean, really disgusting. So did Paul say, well, except for except for when this guy is in charge. As long as the Roman Senate has this particular, no. Right? He didn't do that. It doesn't mean that crummy things aren't going to happen and didn't happen back then. Right. I mean, that's crazy. And it fits with terrible things happening.

Were there Christians in Germany under Adolf Hitler? By the way, some of you remember Helmut Neumann. He was a little kid. And Germany under Adolf Hitler was pretty nasty. And he's used the term madman. But that does not thwart this. Christians in Germany are not somehow exempted or accepted from the truth of this passage.

So we have God as sovereign over political authority. Daniel and John references there from the book of Daniel, and also Jesus speaking the gospel of John directly to Pontius Pilate. God can work through natural or miracles and does respond, I put that in quotes, to prayer.

So here's Matthew 5, with, he causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. Here's James 5, 17 and 18, Elijah was a man of a nature like ours. He prayed earnestly. It would not rain, and it did not rain there for three years and six months. God can allow problems impacting our human bodies even using Satan. This is Job 2, 7, 8, and 2 Corinthians 12, 7. Hey, by the way, whose body was it that was impacted by what's written about there in 2 Corinthians 12, 7?

Paul. Paul. He's an apostle. I mean, wouldn't you think, boy, an apostle Paul prayed, or whatever you pray, it just happens, right? Guess what? Maybe not. So, if we look at it, does God have sovereignty in these things? Let's take a look at page 3. The other thing here to look at is God does things in the spiritual realm. We have a couple of main points there. We have every aspect of our spiritual position in Christ. He and us is fixed and untouchable, including our identification with Christ and everything that means in the daily life of the believer. God accomplishes all these things by His grace and those accomplishments are irreversible. And I can see how God works in people's lives over time, and how God works, and it's amazing.

Since I came here, something happened that kind of astounded me. There was a guy that I used to not get along with very well in high school at all. He and I were often at odds. And he was also much larger than me. Much larger guy. And so anyway, I just, I loathed the guy.

And, you know, he went off and I lived his life and I lived mine. And then just several years back, you know, this guy contacts me on Facebook. And he says, I've asked to be your friend. If you don't want to, I understand. But I started looking at his changed. He's been through a lot, but he's been radically changed. And I just immediately had to just let go of all the things, and this guy knows a lot. And so, you know, January, just a few years ago, he calls me up. He says, Bern, I'm going home to meet my father. January 15th, 2014. So May 9th, that year, he went home. So he's my brother.

Their ongoing processes in the spiritual realm that result in our being conformed to the image of Christ are being transformed through beholding Christ through his written word is a parallel but not identical process to the other processes that God has in place.

Let's ask this question. Is it possible that a believer is being conformed and not necessarily being transformed? The answer is yes, and we'll see that. And by the way, one of the things that thwarts the transformation is legalism. Legalism works the transforming process, as we'll see. All right.

So simply stated, as the paragraph says there, are being conformed to the image of Christ as a result of a totally harmonious orchestration of ministries from the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, beginning with the Father. All three persons of the Trinity have a part in that conforming process. The direction of these ministries, and even our initial blessing, is from the Father. When we talk about orchestration, it's the Father who has primary responsibility. All three persons of the Trinity participate. So you as a believer, You, as a believer, have all three persons of the Trinity working in harmony to your conformity.

There isn't, there isn't, okay, the Father is doing this and that, and the Son is just kind of holding his arms and standing off to the side, and the Spirit says, okay, let's see how it goes towards the end. That's not the way it works. The Father is the one who has primary orchestration That's big, because when we talk about every single one of us is foreknown and predestined, and when it comes to your particular conformity, and God works all things, it isn't a matter of God sort of delegates it to this or that day. all three persons of the trinity are intimately and continuously involved in your being conformed. So the predestination is not just, God predestines it and blows back. But you have personal, intimate involvement of all three persons of the trinity toward the end when that happens.

So we'll finish off there. Hal Malloy outlined the ministries of the Holy Spirit for us some years ago. Some of these are positional. Some involve transforming process. We don't have time to go through all of it. Let's take an initial look at it, and I'll leave the rest to you. On page four, these ministries of the Holy Spirit that Hal put together here. And so one, the Spirit dwells in believers.

Is that about your position? Yes. It's about your position, because it happened from the moment that you believe is continuously true, and nothing's going to mess it up. Well, your condition is what depends on your part, right? And so it will impact your condition, the fact that the Holy Spirit is continually present. But the Holy Spirit's indwelling does not vary. The ministry of the Holy Spirit and His indwelling continuously is always there. Whether that is effective for us and fully implemented depends on our part.

It's one of the reasons we talk about what's our part. Next one, the Spirit gives believers access to the Father. When did that happen? from the moment you believe. As a matter of fact, the end of Ephesians chapter 2. What's our access to the Father?

Is it formal? Do we have to fill out forms in triplicate and submit them via email and online? No, we have Abba, Papa-level access to the throne room of God, to God the Father. We can go to him. And the word that is used in Ephesians chapter 2, the end of the chapter, the word is the word that was used for centuries back for the royal introducer. That's Christ. So you have access to the Father on a continuous and informal basis. You can run into the throne room and say Papa. On a continual basis by the introducer, Christ, the royal introducer, by means of the Holy Spirit.

And it's immediate access. You have immediate access from the moment that you have believed. You have immediate access, and it's informal. You don't have to fill out forms in triplicate, and wait six weeks, and wait for an appointment. It's informal, immediate access, family access, right now, by means of the Dweller-Introducer, Christ, working through the Holy Spirit.

And by the way, when we pray, what's the Holy Spirit's part? He intercedes for us, and he even reinterprets what we pray. Romans chapter 18. This is amazing stuff. Even if I mess up in my prayer, he'll fix it. He interprets it for us. Yes, and he may answer it in a way we just completely did not expect. I like to tell about my dad's mother, who was an unbeliever. Both my grandmothers died in 1887. But my dad's mother, unbeliever. And we talked to her about the Lord, and she just would go stone-faced. Don't want to talk about it. And she wouldn't tell us, I don't want to talk about it. She just was stone-faced, no response.

And we prayed for her. We had family members approaching her, talking. Just stone-faced. Totally unexpected, a neighbor who was helping her because she was dying of cancer, a neighbor came over who had no idea was around and was helping her and talked to her about the Lord. In great pain, the last three weeks of her life, she smiled like I never saw her in her whole life. That's done.

OK, next. The Spirit has fellowship with believers. That is an ongoing ministry. Now, to bring up Marilyn's point, can I thwart that fellowship with the Holy Spirit? Yes, I can. So that becomes a conditional issue, doesn't it? But from the Holy Spirit standpoint, the fellowship is always available. That's a position. So then the Spirit Again, is the Spirit always teaching?

Yes. Can I thwart that? Can I neglect it? Yes. But that doesn't change what the Holy Spirit is seeking to do. Finally, we don't have time for it, but you could go down this entire list and look at and what relates to condition, or in some cases, how does this relate to condition. So anyway, you can look through this entire list, and I think it's useful to do so. All right. Thoughts, comments, questions? Yes, Pat. Yeah. I have a question about Elijah. When he was praying, did it not rain? What about the believers that were praying that it would rain? Well, this is interesting.

Yeah, he was in a very tough spot. What happened, just to give a context, he was in a very tough spot. He was one of a number of prophets, I think it was around 100, and Jezebel had the others all slaughtered. And so he ran for his life and thought, Lord, I alone am left.

And Lord says, no, that's not true. I've still got 7,000 who are faithful. And we don't know what they were praying. We know that in his circumstance, he needed to pray to have the sky shut up, the rain. So if there are other believers that were praying for rain, that's one of those things where what does the Lord do? The Lord sees what needs to happen and does it.

That's a long time. Yeah, and you can have believers both praying the same thing. Here's Nancy and I, 25 years ago, I came down with Lyme disease. She had the whole body itching all the time, day and night. We knelt down to pray, and the Lord healed her before we said Amen. And the Lord, I had the Lyme disease, and the Lord didn't touch it.

So, yeah, you can have two people praying for the same thing, and the Lord responds to one and not the other, and for his reasons. So, if we pray, does that mean the Lord is, like a genie, going to automatically do what we ask for? No. Does he value all prayers? He values prayer. But he and his knowledge and understanding and wisdom will appear to respond to one and not to another. And he'll have his purposes for that.

Okay, let's pray. Lord, we thank you as we see the insights from here, what you have done, what you are doing, what you will do into eternity. These things are all comforting things. We thank you for the great love that you have for us. How immensely wonderful to know that we can run eagerly into the throne room and just call you Papa and have that informality and immediacy. There is no waiting time. We don't have to get on a list. We don't have to go through the waiting period. We simply run into the throne room any time for any purpose. And that's a wonderful thing. We thank you that our prayers have all three persons of the Trinity involved. and communicating and carrying those things out. Lord, how fantastic and wonderful these things are. We give you thanks in Jesus' name. Amen.