Lesson 59b Q 7

I've been watching this podcast, and at the beginning of every podcast they say, this is going to be the best podcast ever. I decided I'm going to say this is going to be the best class ever. All right. We're in chapter 15 of the Book of Romans. Moving pretty slow, but I think at a perfect pace for what the Lord has going on. We're talking about the stronger and the weaker believer. The verses are 1 through 7, and we've covered, actually we're on question number 7. And question number seven covers the verse number four. Can somebody just read us up one through four of chapter 15 of Romans, just one through four, and we'll pick up on question number seven once we get through that. Cheryl, I know you have it ready to go. You're always ready to go. Okay. All right, one through four.

Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength, and not just please ourselves. Each of us is to please his neighbor for his good to his edification. For even Christ did not please himself, but as it is written, the reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me. For whatsoever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, So that through perseverance and the encouragement of the scriptures, we might have hope. Okay. Thank you. So, for whatever was written in earlier times. All right.

And the big factor here is hope. So, number seven, the question is, what is a big factor in the believer having hope? What's a big factor? Based on verse four. Divine wisdom. Divine wisdom. OK. Encouragement of scriptures. Encouragement of the scriptures. OK. Why do you think there would be encouragement from the scriptures that would give us hope? And what scriptures do you think Paul is talking about here?

Well, that would be the Old Testament. Yeah, I think you're right. The New Testament was in the process of being written, but it wasn't completed. Because this letter hadn't been published yet. Isn't that interesting? You know, we get the privilege of looking back and kind of seeing everything at once.

But I think you're right, Cheryl. I think that one of the big factors in believers having hope during this time, these Roman believers, was the truth of the Old Testament. You think, well, how does that make sense for us? I mean, we're sitting here talking about identification truths and, you know, who we are. I'm doing online. Sorry, what's that? Okay, no worries. So, where was I? So yeah, to your point, these weren't written yet.

So, you know, we have the identification truths and we have, like I said, our citizenship in heaven and we have the ability to look down on who we are in Christ, or look to who we are in Christ and have a heavenly perspective. But here he's saying there's an encouragement for these believers in the Old Testament. Because it says, written in earlier times, written for our instruction. How does that work? I mean, just the verse before, he quotes the Old Testament, and he says, the reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me. So what is he talking about here?

Gene, I think some of this goes back to Just pulling it up, in, what is it, Galatians 3, 3, 23, 24, where the law was to point us to Christ, and now that Christ is here, we don't need the law anymore. But I think all the Old Testament scripture was pointed to Christ. So I think the encouragement is, Christ is here now. All the things that you saw in the Old Testament, that was pointing to Christ, now we have Christ here now. So I think the encouragement is, it's the fulfillment of Scripture is before us. I 100% agree. I think that's really what Paul is getting at here.

I mean, remember, he spent how many years with the Lord Jesus before he started his ministry? Probably, he was three in the desert, you know, who knows, seven or eight in Tarsus. Yeah. Yeah. So there was a long time that he spent learning from the Lord Jesus Christ himself. And it was all about how he was the fulfillment. All that the Lord was doing. And I think that word fulfillment is really the precursor to what we might call the encouragement of the scriptures. Right. I would say a couple of things here.

One, that the scriptures themselves from the viewpoint that what God was doing with all of these people in the Old Testament is what gives you the encouragement. It's God's commitment to grace and blessing that you see everywhere in the Old Testament in spite of the sinfulness of the people he's dealing with. Yeah, I think that's an interesting point because our hope is not about perfect people who lived through the Old Testament. It's about a sinful, challenging, difficult circumstances and disbelief in many cases, yet he was faithful. Does that sound like us? I think that's right.

As time went on, he was a very patient God and he was always trying to figure out and that's not a good term, but he was always blessing people and trying to put them in a position where he could bless them even more. And at the end of the day, he always accomplished his goals in spite of all the opposition that he had from the people he was trying to work through.

And that's what is very encouraging to me is that when God makes a statement about something or says, here's where we go, here's where we're going, or here's what I'm going to do. The perseverance and the encouragement comes from the word of God, not from the people that are the subjects of His grace. It's His grace alone. And the scriptures alone that give you the encouragement.

Yep. Another word for, another translation for encouragement comes from, it's translated comfort. Yeah. Comfort wrought by the scriptures. Are you encouraged by the scriptures? Are you comforted by the scriptures? And it's interesting, that word periklesis in the Greek, it's got various meanings, but the one that I really kind of attached to was a calling near. This idea of we're encouraged, we're comforted, we're called near to the scriptures. Yep. Maybe. Yeah. Consolation. Consolation, okay. That's another good one.

Yeah, there's a lot of good words there, but I guess what I would say is that, you know, for question number seven, what is a big factor in the believer having hope? a calling near, a comforting, an encouragement of the scriptures. It's an encouragement of specific details. It's not just like, oh, I've got my Bible near to me. It's the very truth of what's there. I think to Mike's point, the point of the whole Old Testament was to make way for the coming Messiah and to prepare. you know, Paul is here communicating the fact that this entire book of the Old Testament and that which would have been communicated up to this point through the apostles was for the purpose of encouraging us towards the hope and the glory of God.

And that's what the point of the scriptures are. They're not, you know, a lot of people think of Scriptures as being something that tears you down and pulls you apart and points you to legalism. Even with the most recent Supreme Court stuff and just the faith-based questions that have been asked around various interviews and such, they don't get it. They just don't get it. This is not a book that is meant to tear down, to put you in bondage.

It is an encouragement. It is a comfort. It is a consolation. It is a calling near. It's a summons to what God is doing in the life of those who he loves. And that includes unbelievers, because he's working there. And so, yeah, I think that the big factor here is what?

It's the scripture, it's the word of God, and it's written for us so that, you know, what would we be doing if we didn't have the word of God? We'd be wondering, right? We'd have no clue. I mean, we'd be left to our own objections, our own thoughts, our own opinions. We'd literally have to depend upon, you know, our intellect. And how far does that go? You know? Not very far. Not very far. Of course, I've got a flip side in my crazy brain.

That's why I think I focused on from the Galatians 3.24, which is the law appointed us to Christ. That's why I think all of us are appointed to Christ in a comfort. Think about where they were at the time when Paul wrote this. You know, I take somewhat of a different position than Mike when I look back.

Yes, it is right with God's grace and mercy and all this, but I also think of, you know, they did something wrong and the earth swallowed up several thousand of them. Noah, you know, God wiped out the entire world except for eight people. you know, the ark.

And I think the comfort is pointing to Christ, which that's all gone now. I mean, all of the penalty has been, you know, all your sins have been placed upon Christ. I think the key point is pointing to Christ. I think we can look at his mercy, but if I'm relying upon the old scripture for my comfort, I'm a little nervous, you know, is the earth going to swallow me up, you know? So I think Christ is the key. The full focus is on Christ and the comfort. is that Christ has now come, you know, for them. And now there isn't this, you know, need to swallow you up in the earth and wipe out the entire earth. There is a Savior now. And I think that's where the real comfort comes, is in Christ.

So, just a little different take. That's kind of still coming in the tribulation. Yeah. Yeah. I think, Courtney, I think there's a middle ground there for me in the sense that while there was judgment, and God did perform that for very valid reasons according to His righteousness and His justice, there was always hope. And there were those that clung to it. And they weren't perfect, but they did cling to it, and they did understand it.

And to your point, Courtney, Just the attribute that you all often mention for us as believers, that we must have faith in what God is doing at that particular time. So while it was brought with the legal system, and it wasn't a bad thing, it was meant to like you said, a tutor to lead us to Christ, there was hope, but it wasn't the kind of hope that we have in Christ. And Paul has made that clear, and I think that's the beauty of Romans 1, chapter 1 through 14, is that he has completed the understanding for the believer of how Christ fulfills all those things of the Old Testament that were, they weren't missing, but it wasn't the time, right? And so But yeah, I mean, there would have definitely been more fear for those believers in that time, and they didn't have the Holy Spirit.

And so, could they be encouraged? You know, and I feel, I believe that You know, we can't just read the scriptures and gain knowledge. Mike often has talked about that. You can't just sit there and be a scholar of the scripture. That's not an encouragement. That's not the comfort.

That comes through the Holy Spirit doing His work in our lives, convincing us and convicting us of the truth of what He said. And so I think you're both right in that sense. It's a process. It was meant to happen in time, another tool of God's. But, you know, the encouragement that comes from Scripture in the believer's life, given, you know, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ is the kind of encouragement and comfort that no one will ever experience, you know, in this day and age until your point, Kathy, until we start to enter into those end times events where we're face to face with the Lord Jesus. raptured with him, the bridegroom. I mean, those are different things altogether. But in this day and age, Paul says that our hope is in the encouragement of Scripture.

And so I think that's the big factor that we're talking about in the question of our spirit. And JD, for a little preview for next week and the reverses I'm going to cover in the next lesson, he touches on this again, which kind of backs up kind of the both philosophy that you're talking about. We'll touch on this again in lesson 60 about hope. So yeah, and it kind of blends to what you're saying. I mean, it's kind of a whole different look at this too, to answer the question also. We'll touch on it again in the next lesson. Yeah. So one last question before I move on to number eight.

We look at, everywhere we turn right now, I mean we're in election season, I get it, it's like this every year, but this year seems to, I think every year we think it's even worse. I think people just kind of have that sense of it, and I would agree. This year it just seems even more cutthroat and mean, and there's just so much involved in what's going on in our political climate today. And not to get into politics, but to say, or to ask this one question, how do we encourage people around us during this time?

Is it a candidate that's going to bring that ultimate encouragement and comfort? If this happens, then I'll be comforted. And I think that Nick, who, yeah, he's on. Nick wrote a post on Facebook specific to this point. Is my hope in what's going on in our country? And how do I gain encouragement given the climate of today's world? Because we are divided more than, maybe not more than ever, but extremely divided right now. It's in the scripture. It's in the word of God, and it's in a person. It's in the Lord Jesus.

And often, I think I've said this to you before, but there are many people that want to wrestle with the leaves at the top of the tree. And it's not that those aren't important. It's important that we participate in our civic duties and so forth, et cetera, et cetera. But at the very root, at the very base of the tree, you've got these roots going down. And every person has a worldview. and they're looking at things from their worldview. And when they get to the top of the tree, they're going to be looking at it based on what's in the roots, where those roots are planted, where they're stationed.

And so now more than ever, just like next year and the next year and the next, it continues to be a how do we communicate the word of God to folks and how do we battle, if that's the right word, how do we deal with the things that we're being challenged with to the point that we know that the Lord Jesus is in control and that more than anything, people need to know Him. It feels like a losing battle sometimes, doesn't it? It really does. I mean, man, it's a difficult thing to do sometimes with people that you love, people that you're close to and just have such a different perspective on the top of the tree. But what's most important is that root and where they're facing their faith and where they're coming from in a worldview perspective.

Does that make sense? Yeah. I think you learn from like the turmoil that's going on today that when Paul says that we're not of this world, Peter says we're just passing through. We're sojourners and pilgrims and that kind of thing. And that we really are citizens of heaven and that we're here for a while.

But I think a believer has to assess, well, what am I doing here? I'm not here to change the political climate or solve the sin issue. All of that, the sin issue has been resolved. The issue is God is calling out a bride for his son, and that's what we should be involved in.

I like that term, I'm just passing through. Can you imagine if you say that in an argument, if you're sitting in a debate? Hey man, I'm just passing through. Don't worry about me. I'm just passing through. So when you begin to realize that, uh, why, if you think, ask yourself the question or ask the Lord the question, why do you have me here? Well, he explains why we're here over and over again in terms of who we are in Christ and what, what the whole purpose of the body of Christ is. It has nothing to do with changing the political climate. Right.

But I think JD too, you express the, uh, the fact that the unbeliever has roots in the world. Ours is an upside down tree as a believer. Our roots are in heaven. The branches are being blown by the winds of the world. But our roots are secure. We don't have any doubt about the tree being pulled out or moved or anything. Our roots are in heaven.

The only thing that are wrestling the branches is what's here in the world. That's the key, I think. Yeah, you always make my analogies better. Let's look at number 8. I would like to add something. David here, you don't know me, but I really resonate with how you guys interpret the word and meet like this.

It's kind of awkward to get started here and know when to contribute, but I did want to comment on the first question, how we find hope in the Old Testament. For me, A lot of it just has to do with how faithful God chose himself to be throughout the Old Testament, and will continue to be with us, you know, and all the promises that are there. And especially, like, referring to the prophecies of Christ and how they've been fulfilled, and we can look back and see that. And then the New Covenant was even predicted in the Old Testament. Man, what a great, you know, reinforcement for how to, you know, just believe in that.

And then finally, the whole idea that he puts this term endurance right along with the encouragement that we get. And how, you know, just think how people in the Old Testament had to persevere and endure. How long it took Moses before God really used him. How long he was in the wilderness. And how we need to just be encouraged in that. And he takes time to to build us up and to teach us the things we need to learn.

Yeah, so those are some things that I've found to find a lot of encouragement with in the Old Testament. I appreciate you sharing that, David. I think you're right. The promises, the covenants, and the faithfulness that God had through all of those things and all of those trials. I mean, He chose Abraham, and He blessed Israel, and He made a nation. And he took care of them, you know, and ultimately the Messiah was promised. The book of Isaiah, you know, communicates that, the coming nature of who that Messiah would be and what he would do. And it was all a purpose for hope and it's fulfilled in a lot of what, well, it's fulfilled in all of what Christ did. And now Paul is trying to encourage those that, that is a comfort to see God be faithful through all of this entire history up into that point. and now ongoing for us in the church age.

But without the Old Testament, we would not have Christ because we wouldn't have the lineage. We wouldn't have Abraham. We wouldn't have Israel. We wouldn't have, like you said, the promises and the covenants. We still have the Abrahamic covenant to see fulfilled. And as you mentioned, the new covenant still is a very important truth for us. And so thanks for sharing that. I look forward to getting to meet you at some point. I don't know, where are you located, David? in Ohio. OK, you're in Ohio. Well, we love having you, David. Love it. I would like to add one last thing. Yeah, sure.

That what the Old Testament reveals to us is the character of God himself. And that's where the hope lies in his character and his personhood. And it's played out in a thousand different ways and how he dealt with all of the people in Israel and and the promises he made to Abraham, and the fact that he took the nation of Israel from a place where they were being persecuted in the desert out to Sinai and built a system around them that he wanted them to know him. They were more interested in following the rules than they were in knowing him. And he never varies or gets distracted from his purpose, which is He wants his creatures to know who he is and what his character is.

And that's where the encouragement is, I think, that God doesn't change. And that when we get to the New Testament, when we get to Christ and what Christ, who he is and what he came to do, and the fact that he accomplished his work, and God himself eliminated every barrier between us and himself.

Yeah, I used to teach the character attributes of God using the term Sergei Louis. So what I mean by that is it's the sovereignty, the righteousness, the justice, the love, the omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence. These omnis get a little bit... tongue-tied, immutability and eternity, eternal. And so I kind of just found a way to memorize those things. But that's what we learn about God. We learn about that, those attributes. And without that, we couldn't, we wouldn't, there would be no foundation for what the Lord Jesus was doing.

I agree. Yeah. So thanks for your thoughts, guys. Let's look at number eight. I'm pulling a Courtney right now and getting one question for the entire day. Verse five, so verse five says, or reads, now may the Lord who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus. So, man, same mind, really?

I've got five minutes, so bear with me. I'm going to kind of boogie through this a little bit, and I'll come back to it next week. Sorry to run long. I'm going to end up doing a four-weeker. But is it possible to be of the same mind about the Scriptures but not sharing other things? So I'm going to jump to that. Can you be of the same mind with a believer and not be of the same mind about everything?

And I'll tell you where I think you see that is in Philippians chapter 2, where, you know, let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus. And he says that after he delineates kind of who Christ is. And the fact that God can make a proclamation that those who are in him, who are in Christ, have his very mind is an astounding fact. And the issue is, Don't imitate it. He said, let it be in you. Think the same way, because you can. You don't have to think the same way so that you can arrive at the mind of Christ. He's saying, think the same way, because you already have.

That's in 1 Corinthians 2.16, too. This always astounds me. But we have the mind of Christ. How does that blow your mind? Well, there's the fodder for faith. Do I or don't I? Well, God says I do. I guess I better go with Him. Yeah, it's come to that, right? Yeah, it's come to that. Go ahead.

Yeah, your question brings to mind that statement about having unity in the essentials. liberty and the non-essentials and charity and everything. I think that it's just common knowledge where you won't agree with everybody on everything. That's not going to happen.

But as believers, if we're believing especially these deeper truths of the Christ life and that we just need to love, we give people the liberty to be different in these other gray areas. There are so many. Most of them are gray areas, like drinking, for instance. And if I love my brother, who doesn't think anybody should drink, and he loves me, regardless of what I think, it doesn't matter.

So we can be in disagreement on some things, but ultimately, we're one. And we love and respect each other. And we're growing in maturity in that way, you know, it's okay, it's good to disagree. Except when they disagree with Courtney. Or Mike. Just think when there's disagreement how when there's respect and honor you can hash through these things and sharpen each other and grow. That's true. That's what I say. Iron sharpens iron. Mike and I beat each other up, but in the end, it's out of respect for each other. We do love each other. We do? Oh, yeah, we do. I'm like Switzerland. I just get to sit back and watch, not engage.

No, I think this statement, if Christ Jesus engages the thoughts and minds of each of us, we will be of the same mind. Yes, we will. I really love the statement, Christ in me has no problem with Christ in you, with regards to how we think and how we believe in the truths of the scripture. even Christ in me and Christ in you, we might have disagreement about how we go about our daily lives. I might like blue and you might like green.

That's fine. But when it comes down to the scripture, if we're both in fellowship with the Lord and being faithful to what and operating by faith and what he has said, then it is possible. Paul says it is. It's the truth. It's possible that we can be of the same mind. Can you believe that? I mean, me and Ralph can be of the same mind. Yeah.

No, the reason I think that's true, J.D., probably the most important aspect of that is the fact that it's who the Lord Jesus is and what he did. The fact that he's God and he emptied himself and he preferred others over himself and he preferred the Father's will over his own will. We can certainly be in the same mind about that, which allows for a harmony within the body of Christ that you wouldn't see anywhere else. It's a very unique thing for believers, this idea of being in the same mind.

I think it's very interesting. Very comforting. It kind of plays into that hope that we talked about earlier. Well, I've reached my time, and in respect to that, I'll close us with prayer, and we will continue. with two questions next week, so I'll pass the baton probably halfway through, Courtney. Thanks for being ready, though. Let's pray.

Father, how we thank you for the truths of Romans and just the comfort that we get through the scripture of the Old Testament, that we have the hope of the glory of yourself. And we know that because you were faithful all through the ages. You've been faithful, you've made promises, and you've never let us down in that respect. You offered us something that we never deserved through your grace and through your mercy, you delivered your son so that he might pay our sin penalty and might deliver us from the consequences of that and give us a new life. And so, Lord, we take the opportunity to just say thank you for that comfort and for the encouragement that our new life in Christ gives us.

And we thank you that you've called us near to yourself and that you've said that we can be of the same mind. And as believers, that's just such a wonderful thing that we can center around the truth of your word and who you are and who we are in you.

And so we just pray for the next hour. We pray for the clarity of what will be taught and that there would be encouragement in those that would hear it. And ultimately they would be able to draw near to you through faith. And it's your name we pray. Amen.